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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 01:57PM

At what point in time does the soul enter the body that is being prepared for it?
Religiously and /or politically?
And how is the soul affected if is there is an abortion
Again Religiously and/or politically?

ADDENDUM
Presuming that there is a soul. Would it not be logical that it enters the body at birth and exits the body at death?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2020 02:53PM by thedesertrat1.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:06PM

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At what point in time does the soul enter the body
> that is being prepared for it?


Do you mean permanently?
Or for the first fitting?

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:17PM

The soul lives in a gland in yer noggin called the pineal gland.

Think "I Dream of Jeannie" but in lieu of a bottle, she is in a gland the size of a grain of rice. now when she got there......that's open for dispute.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:23PM

Are saying you don't believe that ther is such a thing as a soul?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:24PM

The turtles put her there.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:23PM

Brigham Young said the mother knows when the spirit enters the baby because it will kick for the first time.

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Posted by: S Richard Bellrock ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 08:50AM

I remember that.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:30PM

Opinion varies according to religion. Some say at conception, some say at quickening, some say at birth. There is no consensus, if that's what you are asking.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:48PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Opinion varies according to religion. Some say at
> conception, some say at quickening, some say at
> birth. There is no consensus, if that's what you
> are asking.
Yes that is whaat I was asking. whaat is your personal opinion?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 04:39PM

It's not something I worry about. In terms of abortion, I support the current law which has a graduated approach.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:31PM

Dinna yer wee lass of a mum tell ye?

And if she did, why are ya doubting her? She has as good a chance as anyone else of being right!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:37PM

How do you know if her lass was wee?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:39PM

Cuz it reads funny as "... yer whoa!!! lass of a mum..."

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 02:40PM

There is no such thing as a soul outside of music.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 03:02PM

Food?

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 03:03PM

INDEED!

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 03:03PM

Soul Train!

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 03:04PM

Soul Cycle - although it might have gone belly up.

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Posted by: Aaron ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 10:09PM

Soul Coughing

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 05:11PM

Don't forget Kia

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Posted by: Anonymous Muser ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 04:03PM

If the BOM is to be believed, not until birth.

3 Nephi 1:13 [Jesus speaking to one of the Nephis]

"Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world, to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets."

Jesus was able to send a message to a BOM profit. These Nephi guys def had a talent for hearing voices in their heads.

Therefore, either:

(a) Fetus Jesus could communicate telepathically halfway around the world to a specific target from inside Mary's uterus, cuz it's Jesus; or

(b) his spirit *still* hadn't entered his body the day before he was born.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 04:08PM

Do zygotes have souls ?

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 04:46PM

My understanding of a human "soul" is somewhat simpler than I think most people understand or believe.

To me, it is human individuality--and this individuality is not necessarily connected to anything religious.

Restricting this post JUST to human beings:

I think all (or most) of us have "Long Histories": the lives we have lived previously. Although some of these previous lifetimes can have some fairly strong impacts on a present life, most of a given person's "past lives" have either little, or no, impact on the lives being lived now.

Contrary to common belief, most people who are regressed "go back" to incredibly ordinary lifetimes (similar to the inordinately incredibly ordinary lifetimes being lived across this planet right now).

This is nuanced, however. Major life lessons are often learned in incredibly ordinary lifetimes because, contrary to common suppositions, most people were NOT famous, wealthy, beautiful, esteemed, or powerful in any way. They were just ordinary people living absolutely ordinary lives.

My husband spontaneously went back to a lifetime as a peasant in England, in the general period around the ancient invasions. He and his mother were literally starving to death, so he volunteered to become a soldier--but he couldn't take the killing, so he ran away; he later died because he was so weak from malnutrition that he literally couldn't get away from being crushed to death in a farm accident.

Someone else I know spontaneously went back to a life on a hardscrabble farm somewhere in the American Midwest, sometime in the early 1800s--a life in which he was (in his adolescence back then) literally beaten to death by his father.

Kathleen Jenks worked her way through University of California graduate school by regressing people, and she says that she has only run into someone [now] who was "SOMEONE" [back then] a few times out of hundreds of regressions, and when it did [rarely] occur, the details which came out in the regression were not details which were commonly known or written about in contemporary times--though they did tend to check out if those details were researched.

In my regression, I learned that I am the second person in this body. When I told my Mom this, her reaction was: "So THAT is what happened!" She said that my personality is entirely unlike the personality of the baby she gave birth to, and suddenly one day, *I* was a massively "different person" (for the better). She and I compared details, and it became pretty clear that there had been a switch which occurred during the first couple of years of "my" life now. I was unbelievably better off in this body than I had been in the body I had just left (a lifetime which ended when I had been shot in the head; it was WWII), and I have always felt that I totally lucked out in landing in this body, and in the lifetime I have now--despite the fact that I was always, from the very beginning and forever, a stranger to the family I had when I was growing up. I can't say that they, or I, ever understood each other, but we did--painful adjustment by painful adjustment--sort of get "used to" each other over the years, which was okay enough by me. In truth, though, I never had ANY real connection to the many relatives who came along as part of the "package" of this lifetime. Since I well remember where I came from, I am always conscious that--despite all of the clumsy family awkwardness--I truly lucked out in getting this lifetime I have now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2020 04:50PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 07:12PM

We share a lot in common, Tevai. For one, I’m also a changeling.

Human, pixie-haunted (they keep moving my stuff!)

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 11:59PM

You’re what they call a “walk in”.

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Posted by: nli ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 05:01PM

Genesis says that Adam did not have a soul, even though his body had been formed, until God breathed into him the "breath of life" whereupon he "became a living soul."

Until it breaths, the fetus has no soul.

Genesis 2:7

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 06:14PM

Exactly! The soul obviously enters at birth, because two souls can't occupy the same space (mother and womb), that just wouldn't make sense. We are all separate creatures living in separate space. (I've found most women disagree with this idea, especially those who have been pregnant)

As for politically, I would say abortion isn't technically killing a soul, but just a forming body.

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Posted by: spiritist ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 07:15PM

Spiritually speaking, the soul enters and leaves many times before birth and after also!

Souls don't need to be in the body 100% of the time. The body can function without a soul for periods of time ---- especially during sleep. Why should a soul, that doesn't sleep, be prisoned in a sleeping hunk of flesh and bones???

In the planning of an earth life 'they ---- advanced spirits in the in-between life' know what bodies to assign souls to. Some souls can have short earth lives. If a baby will not be born alive, no soul is assigned as there is some work for souls to bond with these fleshy bodies. Zygotes can live without souls.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 10:04PM

I only think it’s possible after the opening of the mouth ceremony.
But it’s very important, otherwise it will be wandering, homeless, during the daytime.

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Posted by: Onanymous ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 10:13PM

The soul (so to speak) doesn't enter the body, it builds the body around itself

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 01:26AM

Onanymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The soul (so to speak) doesn't enter the body, it
> builds the body around itself

This is an interesting perspective to ponder.

Thank you!

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Posted by: RavenQuoth ( )
Date: September 22, 2020 11:19PM

Until you physically identify your soul, asking when you got it is not a worthwhile or intelligent question.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 01:23AM

RavenQuoth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Until you physically identify your soul, asking
> when you got it is not a worthwhile or intelligent
> question.

Regardless of what a soul is or is not, being able to "physically identify" it is (so far as we know at this point in our understanding) impossible.

On the other hand, discussion ABOUT souls is what philosophers, and those who are philosophically inclined, have been doing for centuries.

Such discussion, including philosophical argument, is both worthwhile AND intelligent.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 12:06AM

At seven weeks, when the fetus produces its first DMT. You can look that up.

My DW once saw another woman’s spirit child standing beside her before she had even told her boyfriend she was pregnant.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 12:41AM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At seven weeks, when the fetus produces its first
> DMT. You can look that up.
>
> My DW once saw another woman’s spirit child
> standing beside her before she had even told her
> boyfriend she was pregnant.


I bet the "spirit child" was wearing clothes when she saw it.

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Posted by: RavenQuoth ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 12:49AM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At seven weeks, when the fetus produces its first
> DMT. You can look that up.
>
> My DW once saw another woman’s spirit child
> standing beside her before she had even told her
> boyfriend she was pregnant.


This depends on the spirit. In your DW's case, it sounds like it might have been absinthe.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 01:10AM

Wasn't there someone who tried to weigh human bodies at the time of death to see if they became lighter after they died?

brb

Yup. Duncan MacDougall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_grams_experiment

THEN there was the guy who hung around near the severed head basket at the base of a guillotine talking to the heads and trying to get them to blink if they understood him. His name was... brb

it was some dude I read about in "Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" by Mary Roach. It may have been a Dr. Beaurieux, but I don't recall. In any event, the book is interesting. The Mütter Museum even more so.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2020 11:59PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 02:57AM

I suppose the ghost in the machine concept has been around as long as consciousness. It apparently is not going away any millennia soon.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 04:11AM

the context for posts here in the teachings of ChurchCo, aka tcoJColds (Mormon church, mormon people)...


Don't they always (as near to 100% as possible) use the word 'Spirit'?

I'm wondering why U chose the word 'soul'.

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 09:54AM

reading somewhere in LDS writings, "The spirit and the body are the soul of man."

So I looked it up. D&C 88.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 08:44PM

My Point!

It's the SPIRIT that enters the body, together (according to MoDoctrine which is ALWAYS SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!!) they Become the soul...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2020 09:26PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: anonyXmo ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 10:27AM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the context for posts here in the teachings of
> ChurchCo, aka tcoJColds (Mormon church, mormon
> people)...
>
>
> Don't they always (as near to 100% as possible)
> use the word 'Spirit'?
>
> I'm wondering why U chose the word 'soul'.

Dunno ... the old "S.O.S." morse code (save our souls) wasn't a plea to save someone's "spirit body" but to save the whole kit & kaboodle, mainly their bodies, fwiw

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Posted by: Twinker ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 09:34AM

Disclaimer: I do not believe in a soul. What people think of as a soul is to me merely an accumulation of ones lifetime of experiences and memories - laid atop a genetic scaffolding.

However, speaking theoretically, consider those spirits who sat on the fence in the pre-existence. They were destined to have black skin, right?

So, for a mixed race individual, half black, half white or any other fractional makeup, which soul does she get? A white soul eternally progressing or a black soul suffering through this life to atone?

Did Asian souls take sides in the great war of heaven?

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 09:49AM

In my view, Mormonism is just a UFO cult that uses "biblical" terminology.

What else would you call the belief that alien spirits are sent to Earth to inhabit human infant bodies and then after the bodies die, whatever Cosmic Cult they came from may or may not grant them a planet to settle on with godlike powers to create life for more spirits to possess and start the process all over again.

Great way for an incorporeal alien species to spread throughout the universe and perpetuate itself.

But why would they need a human body?

Or is it that perhaps they are in a larval stage without any means to interact with the physical environment and need bodies to inhabit until they have powers?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2020 09:55AM by anybody.

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 10:00AM

is not based on any physical evidence. Why would you also presume that it follows rules of logic?

This reminds me of the way Mormons try to apply logic to "prove" something based on a faulty assumption. For example: My father once argued--

-I had to go on a mission because...
-Pres. Hinckley had called me on a mission and...
-Pres. Hinckley was a prophet because...
-Joseph Smith was a prophet, which we know because...
-The Book of Mormon is true because...
-I felt good about it being true.

None of the logical steps matter if the original claim was made without evidence.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 11:18AM

Mormon leaders don't consider a person worthy of saving (in their temples) unless the person in question has taken a single breath. Strange but true.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 11:37AM

This reminds me of the "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" question.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 09:36PM

Books were written on the subject!

Dynasties rose and fell on this issue!

Pinheads were redesigned!!

Music was composed, both waltz and the 4/4 box step!!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 11:39AM

As you're reading this, at least five 'cast out from His presence' spirits are surrounding you, criticizing your taste in 'literature'!!!

(108 billion humans have passed through mortality x .33 = 35.6 billion evil spirits ÷ 8 billion humans alive today = 4.6 evil spirits per living human. I rounded up cuz of kids under eight...)

Can they have conversations with the "adult" spirits that are standing around, waiting to become babies?

And what is the mechanism that hides ALL of the knowledge the spirit gained while in the pre-existence while in a fleshy body? And when is that memory available? Obviously death of the body doesn't remove the block! Else there would be no need to kill off our loved ones because their services are needed in heaven! Why would a person who remembers the pre-existence, like it was yesterday, deny the plan of salvation? Do we never get those memories back? What a puts ghawd is!

I'm beginning to suspect that mormonism is a patchwork of things made up, combined with stuff that had already been made up, like Dave Masonry.

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Posted by: outta the cult ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 12:58PM

It's 54 billion evil spirits.

Two-thirds to earth, one-third angry demons. 2:1 ratio.

108/162 = 2/3.
54/162 = 1/3.

Assuming 7.6 billion earthlings, it's 7.1 angry demons for you & me. Maybe they rotate jobs & only work one day a week, still collecting full benefits. Sounds like a good deal to me.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 01:02PM

Yeah, well, things that operate by rules were never my strong suit...

But anything involving kissing, look out!

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 08:18PM

THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR RESPONSES

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: September 23, 2020 09:30PM

I was once told that "Satin" is a calling. His job is to create adversity so that there is a contrast between good and bad. Otherwise it would be impossible to choose the good, lacking a choice to be bad. In the end, he will be redeemed too.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 08:33AM

I need to ask, what difference does it make when a soul enters a body?

At the moment of conception, on waking, at birth, when it takes its first breathe, at the age of reason?

How will it change your life, what will you do differently when you know when a soul enters a body?

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 01:38PM

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I need to ask, what difference does it make when a
> soul enters a body?
>
> At the moment of conception, on waking, at birth,
> when it takes its first breathe, at the age of
> reason?
>
> How will it change your life, what will you do
> differently when you know when a soul enters a
> body?
Probably not! But hte response to this post has been humongous!
One reason I asked this question was an article I read on abortion. The writer of the article justified abortion because it was their position that the soul did not enter the body until birth.Therefore human life was not being terminated.
It does not make any difference to me. I am still oposed to the practice. "If you start the baby complete it and raise it.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 25, 2020 01:35AM

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> still oposed to the practice. "If you start the
> baby complete it and raise it.

Says the person without a uterus.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 25, 2020 01:48AM

If you haven't seen it already, take a look at the third paragraph here. But make sure you are sitting down, and ideally inebriated, when you do so.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2335090,2335403#msg-2335403

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 03:15PM

What is a "soul" ?

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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 05:14PM

That's funny. I was just thinking that. Then I got to the end of the thread and say your comment Dave.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: September 24, 2020 08:11PM

Re. the question above: I believe the soul enters the body as soon as the heart starts beating.

An experience I had regarding a self-aborted fetes: It was all white, and about 7 inches long.

It was "old" enough for a beating heart at that stage.

I've often wondered what I will find at my death regarding this fetes--did it continue to develop in someone else's womb?

There's only one way to find out.

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