An interesting quote popped out at me in Isabel Wilkerson's excellent book, "Caste - the Origins of our Discontents".

While not speaking to religion directly, this seemed pertinent to the way sheep are exhorted to "have faith", "do your duty", "Sacrifice", "trust in the lord", "consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".

[Speaking of one's rank in the Indian caste system], Edmund Leach says, "The first moral duty is resignation and acceptance. ...The individual gains personal merit by fulfilling the tasks which are proper to the station into which he has been born.....The rewards for virtue will come in the next life."

+Twinker:
But isn't the caste system connected to the Hindu religion?
Isn’t the idea that if you are a huge jerk in this life, in the next life, you are born as a goat or a chimpanzee or something or maybe something considered less like an ant and so on. I think it is suppose to be some kind of gradient.

If you are a good boy, then you are born as a human. If you are a very very good boy, then you are born into a rich family.

“While not speaking to religion directly, this seemed pertinent to the way sheep are exhorted to "have faith", "do your duty", "Sacrifice", "trust in the lord", "consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".”

==Some atheists call it “scoring cosmic brownie points”.
The christian has to be a good boy and do the things he is told and when he dies, he gets the keys to heaven.

Personally, if I was god, I would not give you the keys to heaven because you are only being good because you want a reward. On the other hand, I designed you to be selfish. So looks like, I’m going to have to sacrifice myself to myself to resolve this conundrum.

~~~~iceman9090

I think her basic point is that both mormons and Hindus are cautioned not to upset the apple cart lest they screw up their eternal progress.


"Do what you're supposed to do, lest doo-doo be thy reward."

--Judic Vishnu West

I am reading "Caste" right now for a book discusion I join in on with an Episcopalian church group. The book has really blown me away. Her writing and research is amazing.

For one thing, it has really made me understand racism, how caste and race are intertwined but how racism is only a part of castism. I was especially intrigued by now Nazism was based on the US Jim Crow South and even specifically mentioned in the Nuremberg Code. I have also enjoyed being able to understand the Hindu caste system, it's origins and evolution.

Not to belittle anyone else's experiences with caste, because I know that my experiences pale in comparison to other groups, but I certainly am able to see the Mormon caste system and how it aligns with the basic principles of caste that she outlines. I think one of the best examples is the caste system of mormon women. It may not make sense from the outside how some of the highly educated, critical thinking, independent mormon women are pushed to the bottom of the caste. But as you read the book and see over and over how people need to have someone to feel superior to, it's easy to see.

So many mormon women are low educated. I think it's getting more and more common and accepted for mormon girls to actually go to college to pursue an education. But in my day, I really can't think of a single girl around my age from my ward who went to college for any reason other than to find a husband. I really wanted to pursue an education and had graduated high school with a very high GPA, but I knew why my parents sent me to Ricks. I was in my mid 40s before I went back after dropping out for marriage and finally got my degree. And yes, I felt like I had a much higher place in the caste when I was a non-college educated mormon mother with little kids than when I was an educated independent woman.

Most of the women in higher positions in the church are not educated. And it shows Yet, they need to be able to feel superior to someone. They can't feel superior to their non-mormon educated neighbors. Most of them who work are in jobs that don't require an education. So where do they get their superiority needs fulfilled? At church. They are much more likely to be called to the few leadership positions that women can hold than the educated working women are. Because they are the ones who profess subservience to their men. And that is the number one trait that is required.

The book is an excellent read, especially for anyone wanting a different perspective on racism and the current environment.

But it's funny how the people on top get to decide if they are moral people. Almost like the game is rigged...

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it's funny how the people on top get to decide
> if they are moral people. Almost like the game is
> rigged...
Surely "they" the pure and holy would never do anything so crass as "RIG THE GAME!"

+slskipper:
“But it's funny how the people on top get to decide if they are moral people. Almost like the game is rigged...”

==The mormons at the top decide if you get into heaven or is it the jewish god that decides?
I know that they can excommunicate you if you do certain things but that is the way it is in orthodox christianity, catholic christianity or any other flavor of the jewish religions.

Note: vocabulary used by iceman9090: christianity, islam and mormonism are all flavors of judaism.

~~~~iceman9090

Yes. The caste system is most identifiable in India. That's her starting point.

The book makes exhaustive comparisons between the Indian caste system, Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jews, and African Americans' bottom position in the hierarchy of "castes" in the United States.

She defines eight pillars of the caste system, one of which is "purity vs pollution" in which she equates "Untouchables" not being allowed in Hindu temples and blacks not being allowed (until 1978) in Mormon temples lest they defile the place!

The "reward in heaven" offers those on whom those words are working well as a control tactic a way to feel good about getting a pat on the head when they jump through a hoop.

"Well done my good and faithful sucker!"

I know people who are like, "I didn't do this well in this life, but I never drank coffee and I always paid my tithing so I'm going to have the last last when I'm in my mansion in the CK."

A way to assuage feelings of inadequacy or failure.



Your comparison to how the Indian caste system works is spot on.

> A way to assuage feelings
> of inadequacy or failure.

For me, assuaging such feelings always involved masturbation or getting married...

Ha. No surprise there. Best part is you get assuaged and can still drink coffee!


I miss getting assuaged . . .

Ha!

It might be a comfort to those who have led miserable lives beyond their control.

Which brings up another perhaps exclusively mormon theme:

"No one will be tempted or tested beyond his/her capacity to resist/withstand."

I sincerely believe this to be utter, nutter-butter bullpoop.

No I won't!

It'll be too late then. Especially if I don't make it all the way. I'm not making this up. I'm not even making my bed until I get out of it. I'm not getting much out of this.

Heaven can wait!

I am ready for my reward, for being lost all this time.

ReWARDS doesn't mean to go to ward again. It means to (re)ward off...

Earthly rewards are fine. Or, they'll do for now.

There will be much disappointment in heaven when it is discovered that the reward for a jackass is a bale of hay.

Braying with laughter her. One of the best lines EVER!

+Twinker:
Another thing I would like to add is after speaking with many christians, once in a while I hear:
“You have to accept Jesus as your savior before it is too late.”

Translation: You better do what the god tells you to do or god will fuck you up.

It is the usual Pascal’s Wager from 200 y ago.

Sometimes, it is formulated as
“What do you lose by believing?”
“I prefer to believe rather than risk going to hell.”

^^^^^The foundation of these religions is garbage.

~~~~iceman9090

>>Another thing I would like to add is after speaking with many christians, once in a while I hear:
“You have to accept Jesus as your savior before it is too late.”

>>Translation: You better do what the god tells you to do or god will fuck you up.


Alternate translation: God is going to smack you one but good, as soon as he understands you as well as I do.

Yet another proof that God is made in man's image.