How would one say, in the command form (in French): "Speak less!"
aka "Don't talk as much." It needs to be brief and to the point.

And it is fine to use the "tu" form.

Merci!

How about "shut up"?

"Tais-toi"

or

"Taisez-vous"

(source: several mission companions)

Thank you! I've seen "tais-toi" in English-language novels, but never quite figured out what it meant.

While I got along just fine in France with my night-school French (armed with a dictionary), all parties involved understood that I was very limited, and they were kind to me.

I had read stories that claimed that French people did not like foreigners who were not absolutely fluent in French, but I never, ever found that to be the case. The French people I talked with always seemed to have the attitude, "Well, you are giving it your best shot, and a lot of visitors don't even try."

Vive la France, and thanks for your help, Mordor!!

No France for me. I drew Quebec in the mission lottery.

Mission life was awful, but there are far worse places than Montreal to fritter away two years.

(signed)
Book of Mordor

Mordor, when were you in Montreal? I was there in 1982-1983.

Just wondering.

I finished up in June 1982.

My principal claim to fame was writing a Montreal-specific parody of "Ye Elders of Israel" that was (unknown to me) clandestinely distributed throughout the mission. It's possible that you saw it. The chorus went:

"O Montreal, O Montreal, Province of Quebec,
If you reject us, then you'll all go to heck."


Book of Mordor
CMM 1980-82

I was living in Montreal Jan 68 to Dept 69. Was LFS then.

Kentish, I lived in Montréal 65 - 68. Learned my first words of French there in High School. Bonnes mémoires!

JamesL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mordor, when were you in Montreal? I was there in
> 1982-1983.
>
> Just wondering.


JamesL

Were you ever in Anglo parts like Smiths Falls?

As for the initial request?

“Ta maudit gueule”

Would quiet most people but is considered rude

Wowbagger the infinitely prolonged

Sorry I was a bit slow on the uptake.

Speak less = Parle moins

Don't talk so much = Ne parle pas autant

You'll have to ask somebody local for the pronunciation ;-)

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry I was a bit slow on the uptake.
>
> Speak less = Parle moins
>
> Don't talk so much = Ne parle pas autant
>
> You'll have to ask somebody local for the
> pronunciation ;-)

There is also
Parle moin, 'sti!
which means Parle moin, osti!
and osti is that bread thing they offer in church.

Cesse de parler (If I wrote cesse correctly).
which means cease talking.

~~~~iceman9090

I lived in the French part of Switzerland.
I always liked “ferme la bouche” or “ta gueule.”
They’re somewhat rude, but I was young and rude is what you learn!

My experience was the same as yours, catnip, in both Switzerland and France: if I made an effort to speak French, it was generally met with a gracious effort to communicate.

I agree, Gordon B., "ta gueule" has a pleasing but purely verbal violence about it, but I couldn't really see Catnip saying it, as I've always understood she was a model of decorum ;-)

Absolutely true!

Y'all are too much!! I have tried to model decorum for my children and grandchildren, but the grown kids have gotten to know better!

can not speak the french ~



what the f*ck this thred about ? ~



plz explain OPie ~

Fermez la bouche et écoutez.

that means freedom fries

Shut your mouth and listen, Dave.

OK. Here's your video ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o84Nafb9ZYQ

Okay, it means freedom fries. You got me!

*LOL*

Les accents des jeunes filles étaient terribles.

Vraiment.

Sorry, ziller - Mordor got it, right off the bat. I was trying to figure out how to say "shut up!" in French. That's not something they generally teach in night classes, because it's rude.

I like "Tais-toi." It is brief and crisp and very much to the point. And I wasn't really planning to say it to anyone. I just wanted to know.

When I started this post, my main purpose (although I was too chicken to come out and say it) was to learn how to say "Shut up!" in French.

I have no reason, in everyday life or anyplace else (except maybe to myself, when I'm likely to get myself in trouble for voicing something thoughtless) to even learn how to say "shut up" in French. But I'm a language nerd. We collect stuff like that.

And just look what spun out of that question: So much history and so many viewpoints! That's why I'm standing all amazed.

Cabbie, help! I have only night school French. I don't even know the infinitive form of the verb you have used in "Il vaut mieux," so I can't look it up or figure out what you are saying. I got through France as a tourist fabulously well back in 2006, but that was more likely due to my grandmother's admonitions to be impeccably polite and gracious. My French ain't all that great.

"Vaut" is the 3rd-person present tense of "valoir," "to value."

https://www.thoughtco.com/valoir-to-be-worth-1370999

"Il vaut mieux si…" is a perfectly acceptable but idiomatic way of saying "it would be better if…"

A more literal (and perhaps more familiar) rendition of the English phrase is "Il serait mieux si…" using the conditional form of "être."

https://www.thoughtco.com/etre-to-be-1371032

If anyone cares, the infinitive is the reflexive verb "se taire." How to conjugate it can be found here…

https://www.thoughtco.com/se-taire-to-be-quiet-1370944

…with the imperative (command) tense at the end of the page.


(signed)
Book of Mordor
Canada Montreal Mission, 1980-82

Thanks again, Mordor! It apparently works just like the Spanish verb, "callarse." Reflexive verb and all that. Language nerds will get it and nobody else needs to worry about it. (I freely admit to being a language nerd!)

One of the best experiences I had while visiting Europe back in 2006 was venturing out to buy toothpaste. I had carefully looked up the word for toothpaste in French (dentifrice) so that I could ask where to find it. The clerk recommended a particular brand (I don't remember the name), so I decided to give it a try. It tasted vile, but that was all part of the adventure.

Thank you for another gem that I've added to my lifelong collection. (tais-toi. I love it!)

Better to practice saying "I Surrender" in German...

It's easy for the Americans to say that when they surrounded by ocean. The French had the Germans right on their border. Even the US has its moments of shame, like when the White House was burned down in 1812. "I don't believe we teach that," as Gordon B Hinckley once said.

Then again, the French have BEATEN the Germans in battle more times than they ever lost, let alone surrendered. Ever heard of Napoleon? He marched clear across Germany and out the other side. Hitler wanted to conquer France because of the Treaty of Versailles when France had punished Germany.

I guess they were pretty selective at what they told you at school.

PLUS the French bankrolled the US War of Independence, we never paid them back, and we bankrupted their nation. People starved, heads rolled, Napoleon acted like a dick in large part because America didn't pay what they owe.

And when I say pay what they owe...France loaned us approximately three times its yearly budget.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2020 01:44PM by Beth.

JoeSmith666, how insulting to the French. Over the years I have heard this charge a lot
and think that it likely stems from surrender in 1940 when I believe there was little alternative at hand for France. Despite bravado voiced by Churchill, I am glad that Britain had a sea barrier between it and the mass of German armor so that it did not have to face such a decision. I am reminded of the bravery of resistance fighters ibn the war and if you doubt the resilience of French soldiers read up on Verdun in WW1. There are issues on which I would disagree with French. This isn't one of them.

+1

Good grief, that revisionist insult aimed at Sir Winston is laughable.

Lemme guess, you've got Neville Chamberlain in your genealogy.

And the English Channel is hardly a "sea barrier"; study your history starting with William the Conqueror. When you arrive at the 20th Century, look at this Churchillian quote:

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2020 09:16PM by SL Cabbie.

It wasn't an insult. Churchill's "bravado" was critical to keeping the UK in the war and hence in defeating Hitler. It was part of his heroism.

And yes, the English Channel absolutely is a "sea barrier." Barriers aren't insurmountable; they just make transit much more difficult. The Great Barrier Reef is not an unpassable barrier, nor is any ocean or mountain range. But the channel assuredly was a major obstacle to aggressors like Napoleon and later the Germans; without it the British air force couldn't possibly have stopped the Nazi invasion.

Thank you LW but SC is way off base in assuming an insult when one was not there. I am a great admirer of Churchill and his place in British history so do reject the charge. The reality warn that I think British forces might well have succumbed to the German assault without the channel as a barrier "a moat defensive as a wsll". Thank heavens for Churchill's bravado, we had little else. The Royal Navy and "the few" would have, and did, give a good account of themselves but on land the German machine was pretty awesome at the time. I am a proud Brit, but a realist here which takes nothing away from British resilience embodied by Churchill.

I agree, Kentish, Churchill WAS exceptional - during wartime. From his youth, he was clearly intelligent, dynamic and ambitious, but until the Second World War, he screwed up nearly everything he did. It's almost as if at last we had found out was Churchill was for. And once the war was over, to a large extent so was Churchill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2020 12:06PM by Soft Machine.

I am reminded of a time shortly after the war ended. We were told that Churchill would be passing nearby (I lived just off the South Circular in southeast London and likely he was driving up from his home at Chartwell in Kent). With our neighbors we hurried down to the main street in time to see his open topped car passing by. The top was down and he sat up on it with his feet on the back seat and my how the crowds cheered. As a little boy I tended to think it was Humpty Dumpty going by because that was what he reminded me of.

I have been to his home at Chartwell, bought and donated to the National Trust as memorial to him. It is a wonderful place to visit if you get the chance. I believe the English language is a beautiful thing and none used it more effectively than Churchill.

"Death and sorrow will be the companions of our journey," he told the House of Commons early in the war, "hardship our garment, constancy and valour our only shield."

A man for his time indeed. I like the final quote in Martin Gilbert's official biography attributed to his daughter Mary upon his death.

"I owe you what every Englishman, woman and child does. Liberty itself."

I think I've mentioned before on this forum that, in my long and undistinguished career as a not-very-good amateur musician, I played in various bands for about 15 years with a bass player who is one of Winston Churchill's great-nephews (more or less - Lady Mary Soames was his aunt ;-), a lovely guy totally damaged by coming from the British upper class and having to go through Eton. Funnily enough, last night he phoned (after 30 years in France, he returned to Scotland to retire) and we had a long chat. Although we didn't discuss this aspect, I know he (and the family, mostly) agree with Kentish's and my views of WSC. He was also, according to my friend (born in 1942), a very nice old man who let him sit on the end of his bed while he had breakfast...

And a word about both the 1940 débacle and and the French resistance. First of all, Dunkirk was certainly a massive human endeavour of great bravery, significance and... comfort to the British self-image in a time of deadly danger, but it wasn't a victory. The French fought off the Germans while the British took off as many soldiers (Brits AND French) as they could. A lot of both nationalities died. But it wasn't a victory for anyone. Because in 1939 to 1940 and beyond, NOBODY could resist the German Army and its Blitzkrieg tactics. EVERYONE was unprepared. Everybody had to retreat. Luckily for the Soviets, their realm was so enormous that they could keep on retreating (and dying) until they started to develop the necessary arms and tactics to start pushing them back. I don't think any nation can be singled out.

Secondly, as I've also evoked here, my French mother-in-law, born in 1921, was in the French resistance from the age of 20 along with her sister, aged 19, although not in the same network. They both lost fiancés to German firing squads. My MIL's fiancé was executed while she was in the Santé prison in Paris... With my kids, we used to drive to her house across PAris, pointing out all "Grand-Mère's prisons". La Conciergerie, La Santé, La Roquette - and one I forget ;-). Both sisters ended up (separately) in Ravensbrück concentration camp in 1943. They only met again in 1944, when they both returned to Angers in France, because they were in different Kommandos (work parties). The whole experience shaped their lives, understandably. The younger sister, still living, never got over it and its shadow can be felt in her family down to the grandchildren. My MIL confronted it by going into schools and explaining it to children, as well as accompanying groups to various camps.Anyone who did anyhting in the resistance showed incredible courage and many died. As for Dunkirk, they deserve our respect and thanks.

Tom in Paris



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2020 02:55AM by Soft Machine.

Absolutely correct.

I was just thinking about this the other night. Dunkirk was one of Hitler's most consequential errors. There is no way the French and allied forces could have preserved the British armies if the Germans had not pulled up and waited. If he had acted decisively, Hitler might have weakened Britain fatally and then Churchill would have been unable to save the insular polity let alone the continent.

I picked up a book on the art of Churchill. Taste and Talent for sure, and then there's his political career and life.

I like Tais-toi
or Taisez-vous
and Parle moins
or Ne parle pas autant

catnip-
I like the first one too.

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a great
> admirer of Churchill and his place in British
> history so do reject the charge.

I have mixed feelings about the man. What he did with returning to the pound was a disaster and unnecessary; Gallipoli; the insistence on attacking Germany through Italy, which was stupid; his treatment of other human beings as disposable. But on the single most important problem in his lifetime, he was spectacularly successful. There is in my mind no question that his was one of the two (the USSR) or three (US intervention) factors critical to the defeat of the Nazis.


---------------------
> The reality warn
> that I think British forces might well have
> succumbed to the German assault without the
> channel as a barrier "a moat defensive as a wsll".

No serious person doubts that.


--------------------
> Thank heavens for Churchill's bravado, we had
> little else.

You had the channel. Without both the channel and Churchill, Britain would have fallen, the path to Moscow would have opened much earlier in the year, and the war would have ended in German hegemony over the continent.


------------------
> The Royal Navy and "the few" would
> have, and did, give a good account of themselves
> but on land the German machine was pretty awesome
> at the time.

This recalls Bismarck's response when asked what he would do if the British navy landed the British army on the Baltic Coast. "Well then, I should have it arrested."


----------------------
> I am a proud Brit, but a realist
> here which takes nothing away from British
> resilience embodied by Churchill.

(Geo)politics is the art of the possible. The question is whether a statesman can use the advantages he has to good effect. Churchill did that when it really mattered.

Nothing but admiration from me for your in-laws in WW2. Among the bravest.

Message for Tom in Paris, I presume.

Correct.

Thanks, Kentish and LW. Actually, I haven't been on the board in the last few days because I and my wife went on a three-night break coincidentally in a cottage on the estate of an enormous Norman Manoir... about 3 miles inland from Utah Beach, near Sainte Marie du Mont. My admiration goes to all those who dared to wade onto those beaches in the dawn of June 6th, 1944. If anyone on the board had family in that situation, know that they are remembered and celebrated all over the Cotentin Peninsula (and beyond). It has to be the part of France with the largest number of US flags flying in public - they're everywhere, and rightly so.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2020 07:40AM by Soft Machine.

Way off base in assuming an insult on my part. Nothing to do with the definition of the word bravado. That said I have no problem with the definition of the word. He did speak in a bold manner that was designed to impress both people at the home and the enemy abroad and hopefully to intimidate them with resolve.

Who knew that the word bravado was not a British metaphor.

Indeed Churchill's mother was American. Not quite sure what that has to do with anything. From his head to his toes he was the product of the upper British class.

Winston Churchill was a great man but like most great men he had his flaws and those flaws were often evident in his every day life as a politician prior to WW2. By the end of the war the people were tired of everything associated with it, and of the same old pre war life presented by Churchill's Conservative Party. They wanted something different and the Labour Party was seen to offer that. The reality was that apart from the NHS they pretty much failed and Churchill was returned to power.

After going through a period of depression at losing the election that Churchill called the Black Dog, his wife Clem ntine is said to have told him: "Cheer up, Winston. It might be a blessing in disguise. To which he replied: "Ah Clemmie, I fear it is most effectively disguised."

>>Nothing to do with the definition of bravado

Then why did you use the word?

>>Winston Churchill was a great man but like most great men he had his flaws* and those flaws were often evident in his every day life as a politician prior to WW2. By the end of the war the people were tired of everything associated with it...

There's an American phrase, "Damned with faint praise" that seems apropos.**

Finally, with regard to your attempted explanation of history (after "people were tired"), on why Sir Winston was returned to #10 Downing St: I'm reminded of Orwell's analysis: "In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible." Oscar Wilde also offered some useful insights into "generalizations" your rhetoric might profit from.
_______________

*Most great men? I suggest "all" is more accurate.

**Putting my "inner Francophile" on display with this one

Actually JoeSmith666 did but clearly you were happy to follow the diversion after seeing an insult that was neither intended nor in fact there. Can we not agree that Churchill was a great man whose life prepared him for that greatness to come to the fore at a pivotal point in history?

It was indeed JoeSmith666 wot dun it - with a drive-by multi-purpose insult ...

La ferme!