The restored gospel must be true, guys. This impression occurred to me around the third time that these college edgelords overtly called me a moron and belittled everything I’ve experienced for the last seven years and more. I’ve never felt the spirit of god so powerfully as when I heard them call the exmormon community a bunch of flying monkeys.

These videos take Mormon apologetics to new lows. https://youtu.be/cmI9Ed3dPow

I thought with the gospel topics essays that mainstream Mormonism was going to mellow out and be more self-conscious and tolerant, you know —- try to make a bigger tent for many people instead of shoehorning every last human being into to same rigid fit. Silly me. The belligerent kind of Mormonism that hates all the other sects and especially the nonreligious will always be with us.

I suppose FAIRmormon apologetics was always written for the wayward Mormon asking the questions that could lead him out of the church. It was never trying to convince the world at large. But I’ve never seen them so cynically give up on trying to impress anybody outside of Utah.

Like a slow moving train wreck.

It's a show alright.

Watched it and all I can say is what idiots.
If this is the best the Church has with young people to explain history, the Church is doomed.
It confirms what many are older members are starting to understand. What they had been taught about the BoM is not standing up to any type of research.
The fact that the top guys are allowing these guys to do a presentation in the tone and style of these clowns says a lot about the top leadership. They have run out of options or they do not care.

Gosh the people are stupid.
They are people, I take it.

Nothing to think about-
They can't even act!

If this had been the Gong Show they wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds.

They should be an embarrassment to their 'church', their friends, and even unto themselves.

Yeah, but you gotta love that it is called "This Is The Show".

T.I.T.S. for short.

Jaxson, you are a genius. I wouldn’t have caught that.

Tits for asses.

"Tits" it is. That video is so childish and argument-free, one wonders why they bother. Do they really think this will convince anyone or did they just have a budget to p*ss away?

What an embarrassment.

They imply that Jeremy Runnels has a vast army of clueless sycophants that venerate him (it's not like that at all), but I'm not too worried because I doubt that TITS has a vast army of sycophants that will eat this up--it seems to be quite the opposite, judging by many of the comments.

I wonder if Quacku is playing the church. Is he getting paid for this? I'm guessing yes.

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

+Cold-Dodger:
It seems pretty low class, childish. Their goal should be to educate in a scientific manner, not play dress up and pretend to be Satan.

As for the objective morality in the video, nope, there is no such thing, even if a god or many gods exist.
There is only one set of morals when 1 sentient being exists or if there are many and they are all clones.

There is no objective favorite color, there is no objective favorite food, no objective software.

Multimeters are objective. Clocks are objective. Other machinery are objective, since they are all nearly clones of each other.

~~~~iceman9090

...

Boom mic guy says to Satan: "Hey uh, can I shake your hand?"

Satan doesn't offer hand: "No, actually, not possible."

How do you tell the difference between heavenly messengers or evil spirits? If they are from God but not a resurrected being, they will refuse to offer you their handshake because they do not have a physical form and do not wish to mislead you. FAIR is an anti-Mormon organization. They've shown their hand, implying Satan is an emissary of God.

Also, while watching that I again had the thought of the incongruity of the plan of salvation in practice. If Satan was the one that wished to force obedience and destroy agency, wouldn't he do that by making a repressive organization that prized loyalty and obedience above any other standards or ideals? I'm telling you guys, Mormons are Satan worshippers.

thegoodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“Boom mic guy says to Satan: "Hey uh, can I shake your hand?"
Satan doesn't offer hand: "No, actually, not possible."

==That is located @ 4:50


“How do you tell the difference between heavenly messengers or evil spirits? If they are from God but not a resurrected being, they will refuse to offer you their handshake because they do not have a physical form and do not wish to mislead you.”

==Where are you getting that from?

“If Satan was the one that wished to force obedience and destroy agency, wouldn't he do that by making a repressive organization that prized loyalty and obedience above any other standards or ideals?”

==I think you can say that about any of the jewish sects, christian sects, muslim sects. All of the Abrahamic religions have this attitude of “Our ways are the best because it comes from a perfect god and therefore, it has the seal of approval. You are guaranteed the keys to space heaven with this religion.”

“I'm telling you guys, Mormons are Satan worshippers.”

==Nah, all the various sects (Abrahamic religions) are the good guys. Even when there is abuse, they commit abuse, they kill others, they see themselves as the good guys and they see other groups as working for the Satan. They are all WAR foundations “We Are Right”.

We can see this in the video when the satan mormon guy says:
“I want the mormons to become like the rest of the world. Whether they become atheists or baptist, it does not matter.
I want them to kill people with drunk driving.”

^^^^^The satan mormon guy says “atheists or baptist” but he doesn’t have the time to list all of the competing religious sects.

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where are you getting that from?


• It is believed within Mormon doctrine. D&C section 129.


> I think you can say that about any of the jewish
> sects, christian sects, muslim sects. All of the
> Abrahamic religions have this attitude of “Our
> ways are the best because it comes from a perfect
> god and therefore, it has the seal of approval.
> You are guaranteed the keys to space heaven with
> this religion.”

• Except that this is based upon Mormon doctrine of the pre-existence which no other religions have. If Mormonism wanted to be seen as following Christ's plan, then they should do less trying to instill guilt into people or forcing them to obey really restrictive rules, which according to their doctrine, is the plan that Lucifer offered in the pre-existence.

Considering the fact that Mormons also believe their church is the only way to Christ and all other churchs are of the Devil, then yes, according to Mormonism, all other religions are in fact Satanic. I'm merely pointing out(tongue in cheek) that Mormons, according to their definition of the plan of the opposition(Satan), are just as much the church of the Devil as they claim other religions are.

Their little actor Satan might say he doesn't care what creed people follow but if you ask any Mormon why someone would leave the church, they say, "Because they wanted to sin." Mormons do not believe that there are good ex-Mormons. They believe we all left and then immediately became gender confused drug addicts and sex addicts who are one porn video away from murdering everyone. So, basically what that actor Satan is saying is, of course anyone not in the Mormon church is under his control. Which is a repressive, controlling, and manipulative perspective to have.

thegoodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Thank you. I opened up that part and read it.
That’s some custom mormon stuff.

“Except that this is based upon Mormon doctrine of the pre-existence which no other religions have. If Mormonism wanted to be seen as following Christ's plan, then they should do less trying to instill guilt into people or forcing them to obey really restrictive rules, which according to their doctrine, is the plan that Lucifer offered in the pre-existence.”

==Pre-existence? Ok.
Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand something about mormonism?
Perhaps Satan did offer a restricted rule set (I’ll assume you are correct about that)
and perhaps Jesus/Mormon church (let’s say that they are the same guy) also offers some restricted rule set.
Maybe, you have to obey the Jesus rule set and not the Satan rule set.

“Considering the fact that Mormons also believe their church is the only way to Christ and all other churches are of the Devil, then yes, according to Mormonism, all other religions are in fact Satanic. I'm merely pointing out(tongue in cheek) that Mormons, according to their definition of the plan of the opposition(Satan), are just as much the church of the Devil as they claim other religions are.”

==Yes, that’s what mormonism is about. I would also like to mention that a mormon apologist that I was speaking to, Kyle, says that other christian sects are acceptable. Perhaps he is not aware that mormon church is the one true church and all the other churches are a highway to hell?

“Their little actor Satan might say he doesn't care what creed people follow but if you ask any Mormon why someone would leave the church, they say, "Because they wanted to sin." Mormons do not believe that there are good ex-Mormons. They believe we all left and then immediately became gender confused drug addicts and sex addicts who are one porn video away from murdering everyone. So, basically what that actor Satan is saying is, of course anyone not in the Mormon church is under his control. Which is a repressive, controlling, and manipulative perspective to have.”

==I think it is difficult for the mormon to admit that the leaver has a valid reason to leave.
I have seen the same thing countless times.

I remember in one video where a few ex-muslims were saying that when you leave, they say that we did not read enough scripture and we didn’t understand well. How come you need to do so much reading in order to leave islam but when it comes to join islam, they accept you with open arms and it does not matter how much you read or how much you know about islam. The barrier for entry is very low. The barrier to exit is set very high.

In that video, I think they forgot to mention that the muslims are suppose to kill leavers.

Deuteronomy 13:6-11
If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying "Let us go and serve other gods" unknown to you or your ancestors before you, GODS OF THE PEOPLES SURROUNDING YOU, whether near you or far away, ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; YOU MUST SHOW HIM NO PITY, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. NO, YOU MUST KILL HIM, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of all the rest of the people following. YOU MUST STONE HIM TO DEATH, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God.

^^^^^GODS OF THE PEOPLES SURROUNDING YOU.
ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
YOU MUST SHOW HIM NO PITY.
NO, YOU MUST KILL HIM.
YOU MUST STONE HIM TO DEATH.

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
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> ==Pre-existence? Ok.
> Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand something
> about mormonism?
> Perhaps Satan did offer a restricted rule set
> (I’ll assume you are correct about that)
> and perhaps Jesus/Mormon church (let’s say that
> they are the same guy) also offers some restricted
> rule set.
> Maybe, you have to obey the Jesus rule set and not
> the Satan rule set.
>

• You do understand that I'm being partly facetious, correct? Do Mormons openly worship and follow Satan? No. But looking at the doctrine and their actions, there is a lot of cognitive dissonance and contradicting behavior. In Moses 4:1-4, God talks about the council in Heaven in the premortal existence. He tells all the spirit children about his plan to send them down to the earth he just made so that they can receive flesh bodies and be tested. Lucifer/Satan steps forward and suggests he be the Savior of the world ensuring all souls will return to heaven in the end and asks for the glory of this to be given to himself. Mormons actively teach this as Lucifer offering a plan that would take away our freedom to choose between good and evil. We would all come down here, only do what is right and be rewarded with bodies without ever having to earn the higher glories.

The problem is, and this is the half-facetious part, that while Mormons pride themselves on putting agency and the freedom to choose up on a pedestal, they also demand from their members unflinching obedience to the prophet. There is a reason exmos call it a cult and it is not hyperbole or bitterness. There are guilt and shame cycles put into place so that even your thoughts can condemn you in the judgement of God. Does that sound like an organization that puts agency first? Or does it sound like a metaphorical gun to your head?

That's the joke, the irony. Satan had a plan where disobedience would be impossible(and he rebelled because God said, "Nah, we're not doing that") and here Mormons push forward a plan of "salvation" where any inkling of disobedience makes it impossible to reach the heavenly glories in the end.

I'm not saying Mormons ACTUALLY worship Satan. Satan doesn't exist but according to Mormonism, they're contradicting themselves without realizing it. Just like they do with every other doctrine.

By the by, I was a TBM for 33 years. I grew up in the church. I didn't serve a mission but I held teaching positions in the church and I went to BYU-Idaho. So, no, I'm not misunderstanding something about Mormonism.

> ==Yes, that’s what mormonism is about. I would
> also like to mention that a mormon apologist that
> I was speaking to, Kyle, says that other christian
> sects are acceptable. Perhaps he is not aware that
> mormon church is the one true church and all the
> other churches are a highway to hell?

• That is because Mormons lie to nonmembers. It is called "milk before meat" teaching, where they only present nonmembers with light facts or frame things in a soft way. Then once you're a member, you get the bait and switch, where deeper doctrine is introduced to you over time. They call this "line upon line, precept upon precept"; you learn the easy stuff first, then go deeper and deeper.

1 Nephi 14:10
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

There are only two choices. The one true church(the LDS church) and the church of the devil(everyone else).

I can't tell you your business so, I'm not sure why your apologist "friend" would lie to you, except that he either doesn't know(typical; TBMs are told to read the scriptures daily but how many actually study it critically?) or he does and he has put protecting the image of the cult above being honest in your friendship.

The welcoming of "all truth" and connecting with other religious faiths is a part of the outreach program. The more they seem to be a part of the Christian umbrella and play nice with others, the less people will be wary when learning the stuff that they teach. But in actuality, Mormons believe that people in other faiths are lost and only have a part of the truth, so, they'll never reach the highest glories in heaven.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 08:16AM by thegoodman.

>==Where are you getting that from?

Mormon scripture.

D&C 129:

4. When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5.If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6.If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear-

7. Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8. If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

I warned you before that if you dig very deeply into mormonism you will find some strange stuff.

[|] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. I opened up that part and read it.

MY COMMENTS about D&C 129:
1. Three(3) grand keys, eh? Thumbs up. It hits the magic number of 3, which appears often in the Bible. I guess it is psychologically satisfying for the religious mind. I guess I guess 4, 5 and other numbers would be off. Except for 7, 12, 40.
2. Also, it is a low number, so our simple human minds can remember it. Try remembering 136,384 keys. Very few humans would be able to do it.
3. About part 8, why would you not feel anything? Couldn’t he just get a force field emitter just like in Star Trek holodeck?
(Note: the goal here is to offer a solution to the mormon who presents a problem. You can do this with just about anyone who says X is not possible because of problem Y.)
4. About part 6, Mr human can get a force field generator. Problem solved.
5. Part 2: Why does the jewish god need to make things out of atoms?

“I warned you before that if you dig very deeply into mormonism you will find some strange stuff.”

==Well, somewhat. The Delorian and the flux capacitor from Back To The Future is strange stuff as well. The author just took some ink and paper and wrote down stuff. If I asked them how it works, can the author provide an explanation?
I’m sure that the author of BTTF can work hard to develop an explanation, but can he demonstrate in the real world such a machine? Can Joseph Smith demonstrate something in the real world or is it just ink on paper? Is Joseph Smith just an author?

If an angel is a spirit and I am made of atoms, if I shake his hand, I won’t feel anything? Well, don’t I have a spirit? Why would my spirit not touch his spirit?


~~~~iceman9090

comments are turned off ~



that is quite unfortunate ~



these fools need jesus ~