Skip all the fake bibles and get a real KJV bible. Best christmas gift ever.

I am planning to purchase James Earl Jones reading of the New Testament in the KJV. Just purchase and download.

So you still think the bible is a factual historical document?

Yes, it is the real deal. A true scientific document.

OMG. You could not be advocating for atheism harder if you tried.

Mormons seem reasonable by comparison.

Ah. So you think the earth is a square.

KJV Isaiah 11:12

"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Isaiah 40:22

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth

A circle with four corners. Yes, a "true scientific document."

Ever seen the four directions on a compass?

Directions are not corners.

And, if you are going literal you have to go all the way. No switch hitting, sister.

See Roy G. Biv below for more.

No sale, Sherlock.

Points on a compass aren't the same thing as corners on a circle.

Further, both Isaiah quotations, "four corners of the earth" and "circle of the earth," presuppose a FLAT earth. Circles and squares are 2-D shapes.

Therefore, your use of Isaiah 40 demonstrates that you are literally a flat-earther.

Such a "true scientific document."

And you might want to stop the proselyting ASAP, or you're going to find yourself tossed out on your preachy ass.

Wow! OK then, get ready for some rebuttal on that one. I'll start....

Explain the science behind Jesus walking on water, feeding 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and a few fish, bringing the dead back to life, dying and then coming back to life after 3 days.

Explain the science behind a donkey talking, a serpent talking, turning a woman into a pillar of salt, flooding the entire planet, getting 2 of "every" species on the planet into a boat along with everything it takes to feed and water them. Moses parting the red sea, how lambs blood around your door prevents your first born from dying at the hand of god, etc.?

Gee, Roy. Were you absent that day in science class where they used the Bible to prove hypotheses? ;-)

I doubt Cauda was a Mormon. He sounds like someone who had issues in his life and found Christianity as a crutch. That's nice and all, but he comes off as a one track zealot. Just saying.

I must have blocked it from my memory as I became atheist, but now I recall the only book we ever used in science classes, and that includes all the science I had to lean to become an engineer, was the bible.

Can't believe I forgot that. Do you recall which bible chapters cover Calculus, Physics, Statics, Dynamics, Mechanics, Chemistry, Materials, Plastics, Composites, Fluid Mechanics, etc?

If only I had the James Earl Jones version back then.

> . . .turning a woman into a pillar of salt. . .

Watch it, you talking donkey or I'll remove the rainbows and where will you and all your colors be then?

I'm melting, I'm melting, what a world, what a world!

By what method did you determine it to be scientific?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2020 04:12PM by Elder Berry.

Through deduction.

Please explain your process of deduction in detail.

Let me guess....something like..."I believe in God and Jesus, therefore I deduce that they are real and can do everything they do in accordance with science, specifically, quantum physics."

Did I get that right?

It sounds more like through deification. That isn't a scientific process.

I doubt that anything has impeded scientific progress and scientific understanding more than the Bible.

Yeah ... because quantum physics!

Funny how gods keep moving into newest areas of science to stay hidden from people who don't understand science. Don't forget to look in those black holes for all those fish. You are trying to defend a god of the gaps fallacy.

You'd be better served if you actually studied science instead of regurgitating scriptures.

Sticking with the BOM myself ;-)

This cauda person is merely another religious illiterate

Ok, I'll bite. How is a Textus Receptus KJV Bible different from the "fake" Bibles? There seems to be no shortage of KJV bibles out there, including the one published by LDS Inc.

And a Bible of any flavor is most assuredly not anywhere near the top of my list.

Compare

Isaiah 7:14 - KJV vs RSV


Luke 1:34 - KJV vs RSV

That's a couple of dozen words out of 800,000. And I don't have either bible, making the verses a little hard to look up. I could do it online, but it would have been nice if you had quoted them, since you clearly are familiar with them.

Also, there are a lot of KJV bibles. What is a Textus Receptus and why is it better?

The language of the KJV Bible is the most poetic, but it is not considered to be a particularly accurate translation.

+Cauda:
None of the Bibles are fake. They are all authentic and translate some ancient scripture written by real people, from real cultures.
The book of mormon is not an ancient book and doesn't come from any ancient culture. Native americans aren't jews from the middle east.

"Yes, it is the real deal. A true scientific document."

==Oh please. It is a document that reflects the primitive knowledge of the primitive people of the time.
I suggest that you study some modern science and duplicate a few experiments for yourself. Maybe take a few courses at university.

~~~~iceman9090



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2020 12:12AM by iceman9090.

I agree. "Fake Bible" is hyperbole, unless you are discussing the BoM which was a product of 19th century imaginations. "Scientific document" is hyperbole as well. The Bible is a collection of ancient stories which have varying degrees of truth and fiction.

Jesus is not ancient. He is eternal, the Son of God.

When was the Bible written, Cauda?

God is eternal. The Bible is written in a languages that is ancient. Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

40 human authors from different walks of life, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote the book over a long period. There is no precedent to the Holy Book.

Cauda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God is eternal. The Bible is written in a
> languages that is ancient. Hebrew, Greek and
> Aramaic.
>
> 40 human authors from different walks of life,
> inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote the book over a
> long period. There is no precedent to the Holy
> Book.

There is no evidence that the jewish god is real.
There is plenty of evidence that the jewish people are a real culture, have a written language that evolve. Ditto for the greeks and other cultures.
There is archeological evidence for that.

In 5000 y into the future, if we dig up and find a Superman comic book, it means that a certain culture produced that comic book. It doesn't mean that the contents is real. A guy jumping over buildings is not something in the realm of reality.

When I see these numbers, 3, 7, 12, 40, I get highly suspicious. These are some of the magical numbers that ancient people used.
40 authors? Probably not. The Bible is written anonymously.

~~~~iceman9090

With a clinical scientific perspective in mind.

Is the goal of a debate to chase the other away or arrive at some kind of truth?

The goal is to get you to stop preaching in a sanctimonious manner. No one here wants to be preached to, or talked down to. You are doing both. Your discussion of "fake" vs. "real" Bibles doesn't hold water. It's your opinion, and not a very elegantly stated opinion at that.

You write in a very rude and disrespectful manner. If English is not your native language, then maybe you have an excuse. As it is, if you are trying to "sell" Christianity, you are doing a very poor job of it. There is a way to discuss your favorite Bible, with supporting reasons, that is not so preachy. Work on your language.

I will respect the wish to keep it a recovery board.

But one nugget I will give you.

Even if you adhere to atheism.

It takes a sense of understanding of meaning to know the fruits.

I am born and raised in a social democratic home.

This is what our government did! The only ones against it back in the days where the christians, nobles and the conservative right.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/30/health/swedish-cavity-experiment-wellness/index.html

Ok, here comes the nugget, again: To enjoy the fruits of atheism and science you must understand meaning.

Christians also behave like jerks, as you have been behaving like a jerk to us.

>>To enjoy the fruits of atheism and science you must understand meaning.

STOP PREACHING! People can believe whatever they want to believe here, without justifying it to YOU.

This place has often been seen as low hanging fruit. If we only knew about the right bible, real Jesus, true path, yadda yadda yadda. Of course, these shallow divers have no idea of the amount of time and study many here have done. Sometimes it is the zeal of the newly converted. Other times a self ego stroke. Hell, we have even been a school project, anyone remember the seminary student? It is faintly amusing, often tiresome. My guess is that Cauda has been around for a while under different names trying to work out their own issues.

Ego? In what analytical sense? As a static mask in a social game?

I want to develop. As a person. Learn lots of things.

I am from the old world and people here built whole Kingdoms on the basis of the scriptures. My home country is one of the most atheistic countries in the world. Before that it was controlled by the King and the state church for almost 1500 years. One of my goals is to understand christianity.

Why do I believe in Jesus? Because of the psychological dynamics revealed in John 18. Show me an ”acient” religion with the same depth.

What country?

Konungariket Sverige.

The Kingdom of Sweden.

Again, your English needs a lot of work. Or your attitude. Maybe both. Try to be less preachy to your fellow board members.

Perhaps on another post you can give some perspective into the Swedish Rescue.

The swedish rescue?

You mean atheists working inside a fantasy frame work about ”rational” beings doing the right choices?

We are getting our clocks cleaned.

Our freedom-oriented strategy (no shut downs) is based on a complete fantasy.

I'm talking about the rather notorious revolt among Mormons in Sweden, led by Hans Mattsson. Since you are Swedish, I thought you might have some personal knowledge of it among your former ward members.

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/swedish-rescue2.htm

Thank you for the info.

I am more interested about the KJV.

It has nothing to do with mormonism.

Thank God!

Are you a former Mormon?

Will not bother the board with my conduct.

Yes. I know when I really want to know I can trust a translation I always go to an English King to get me what I need. Luckily he had time to direct the project in between cavorting around with his boyfriends. So glad you are one who doesn't worry about such things.

D&D, as a translator since 1986 and, like most English people, not excessively distantly related to the royal family, that makes me feel warm inside ;-).

I love you both - Tom & D&D. You are clever and you make me laugh.

Christmas wishes to you!

Cauda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
“Show me an ”ancient” religion with the same depth.”

==And what happens if I fail to show you an ancient religion with the same depth?
Does it mean that Jesus is real?
Different cultures go through different steps, different situations.

Look at Joseph Smith. He started a very successful religion. He was helped by using the popularity of christianity of course. He just put down some ink on paper, he was a very good speaker, with probably above average intelligence.
Today, there is something like 10 to 16 million believers.
Will there be another guy like him making claims about jews going to some location, maybe Mars and also make a multimillion level religion? Probably not.

I hear there is a guy in Russia who claims to be Jesus and has written his own holy book. He has thousands of followers.

Back to ancient Israel and Jesus:
How difficult is it to gather a few believers, believers who will go to the extreme, believers who are ready to die for their Israel, believers who are against the evil Romans that worship other gods?
In a population of 1 or 2 million (I don’t know the population of Israel or whatever you want to name it), how many such people are you going to find?

~~~~iceman9090

10 to 16 million believers is over stated, I suspect. 10 to 16 million on the books perhaps.

Have you ever heard of Hinduism? Jainism? Zoroastrianism ?

These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head where of we can read the ancient scriptures.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“anyone remember the seminary student?”

==No, I have not been around here for long.
Tell me about the seminary student, if you have time.

~~~~iceman9090

https://voicesforchrist.org/speakers/1528?page=2

I don't mind listening to old radio sometimes, I know it's a bit boomy and maybe over the top but I truly think it as fun and nostalgic in a weird sort of way.

Not that it matters.

Everyone with sufficient Grace & Knowledge, conveyed by the Spirit, knows that only the Cipriano de Valera translation has the complete wisdom and grace of ghawd!

Fie on you, Swedish heathen!!

Those with certain proclivities do what it takes to acquire the Textux Erectus "Who's Yer Daddy?" bible.

“planning to purchase James Earl Jones reading of the New Testament”

The Force is strong with this one.

Sounds like a good investment if you like the Bible, which seems to be unpopular with many Exmos. You can read into that whatever you want. Mostly it tells me that Mormonism is a pretty awful religion in addition to being way overpriced.

It seems silly to be fawning over an English translation - one of some 15 to 20 based on the Textus Receptus - when you can go straight to the Greek texts. What's the point?


Which reminds me, I used to have a Koine New Testament somewhere as well as a translation dictionary of Biblical Greek. I suspect I sold it to one of the sets of missionaries who visited while they were trying to reactivate me, since I don't appear to have sold them on Amazon, and they aren't on my religious literature shelf, where my German and French Bibles are.

It's a bit odd for me not to have them, as I pretty much keep all my language books - even ones I don't need anymore.

Tyson

Cauda: In case you aren't aware - there is a board rule here to avoid preaching.

There is a popular misconception that ex-Mormons don't know the Bible and/or if only they were re-educated in the proper version and interpretation they would become "true Christians".

Christians (like me) are welcome to post but not if our purpose (overt or covert) is to preach and try and gain converts to our own religious beliefs.

The reasons include the fact that many exmos are in need of "recovery" or at least support as they exit the LDS church, due to many factors well described here over the years.

Toxic religion can actually make people ill.

After exiting a negative experience that has been life-consuming for many, more religion can be exceptionally counterproductive, especially if it arises from a place people consider "safe".

This board is set up with a main purpose of helping and supporting and responding to people in that category.

I can remember back when I first came here, hurt after some of my Mormon experiences as a short-term convert, even seeing a citation of a Mormon scripture was sick-making. So consider the BICs (born-in-church) folks, who have had a much longer exposure to all the negatives of Mormonism.

This isn't a place to discuss the merits of Christianity in the eyes of its adherents. Perhaps you have misunderstood that.

Questions? Yes. Pronouncements? No. Expressions of religious devotion? No thanks.

Maybe you could examine your reasons for being here. If it's to try and find converts, that is unwelcome, and in my view, dishonest, if you understand the board guidelines, and if you really care at all about other people.

I assumed when you started posting that you were an ex-Mormon seeking support, like most new posters. I was obviously wrong. Please read board rules if you haven't and perhaps try to understand how misplaced any proselytizing efforts are in this venue.

So far, RfMers have been extremely courteous to you. Perhaps you could return the favour by not framing your posts as preaching or conversion attempts.