For this one the Book of Morons does not count. "christians" revere the Bible - in so many versions.

Jesus is a big deal in the Bible.

Where in historical literature and records is he also mentioned? Anything actually recorded about the guy when he supposedly lived?

Would you like to receive a free Book of Mormon?

Ha ha haa..

Okay ok, I'll stop..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus

Here's two or three valuable and substantial records, Josephus, and Roman sources such as Tacitus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2020 03:32PM by josephssmmyth.

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's two or three valuable and substantial records, Josephus, and Roman sources such as Tacitus.

Scholars generally view the Josephus passage as a late Christian interpolation, not sounding like anything Josephus would have said.

The Tacitus passage does not mention Jesus, but refers only to Christians, of which there were plenty in his time, so is not probative of there having been a man named Jesus.

Bart Ehrman has a book out on the subject, trying to prove that there was a historical Jesus, but I did not find it convincing.

BTW, this topic has been thoroughly discussed numerous times on this board.

nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> josephssmmyth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's two or three valuable and substantial
> records, Josephus, and Roman sources such
> as Tacitus.
>
> Scholars generally view the Josephus passage as a
> late Christian interpolation, not sounding like
> anything Josephus would have said.
>
> The Tacitus passage does not mention Jesus, but
> refers only to Christians, of which there were
> plenty in his time, so is not probative of there
> having been a man named Jesus.
>
> Bart Ehrman has a book out on the subject, trying
> to prove that there was a historical Jesus, but I
> did not find it convincing.
>
> BTW, this topic has been thoroughly discussed
> numerous times on this board.

Remember, we're not searching for divinity but rather simple identity confirmation, is that about right?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

((Shortly before Tacitus penned his account of Jesus, Roman governor Pliny the Younger wrote to Emperor Trajan that early Christians would “sing hymns to Christ as to a god.” Some scholars also believe Roman historian Suetonius references Jesus in noting that Emperor Claudius had expelled Jews from Rome who “were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus.”
Ehrman says this collection of snippets from non-Christian sources may not impart much information about the life of Jesus, “but it is useful for realizing that Jesus was known by historians who had reason to look into the matter. No one thought he was made up.”))



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2020 07:15PM by josephssmmyth.

You wouldn't expect to find much about him, because he came from an ordinary background, and there were many wouldbe Messiahs back then like Maccabeus and Bar Kochba.

there are some derogatory mentions in the Talmud, mostly as a form of slanders by hostile rabbis (who hated him because his form of Judaism would have put most of the legal experts out of jobs).

Extracanonical literature. There is a school that some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas are authentic.

Jesus is mentioned in all the non-KJV bibles. KJV is the Holy Book.

Well, King James was born in Edinburgh, which certainly makes him a True Scotsman...

But he was fortunate to see a bright prospect in his life...the high road to England.

Sometimes you have to close your eyes and think of England. ;-)

Speak for yourself.

Hey, what better thoughts could a person have lol.

Who's thinking?

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, King James was born in Edinburgh, which
> certainly makes him a True Scotsman...


^^^^^The above is about the no true scottsman falacy.

~~~~iceman9090

King James father was born in Leeds, England! ;)

"Where in historical literature and records is he also mentioned? Anything actually recorded about the guy when he supposedly lived?"

==If someone saw Jesus walking around and doing miracles and giving speeches and wrote about him? I have never seen any such sources.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people who saw Princess Diana, wrote about her. There are a few thousand independent news sources about her, both in print and VHS. I have seen her on TV while she was alive.

I have never seen any independent sources about Jesus.

The go to guys that get mentioned by christians are:
1. Pliny the Younger
2. Suetonius (Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus)
3. Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus
4. Titus Flavius Josephus

But how about we check when these 4 guys were born.
1. Pliny the Younger
Born 61 CE
Died= 113 CE
He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.

2. Suetonius (Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus)
Born = 69 CE
Died = 140 CE
He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.

3. Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus
Born = 59 CE
Dead = 117 CE
He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.

4. Titus Flavius Josephus
Born = 37 CE
Dead = 100 CE
He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Where in historical literature and records is he
> also mentioned? Anything actually recorded about
> the guy when he supposedly lived?"
>
> ==If someone saw Jesus walking around and doing
> miracles and giving speeches and wrote about him?
> I have never seen any such sources.
> On the other hand, there are plenty of people who
> saw Princess Diana, wrote about her. There are a
> few thousand independent news sources about her,
> both in print and VHS. I have seen her on TV while
> she was alive.
>
> I have never seen any independent sources about
> Jesus.
>
> The go to guys that get mentioned by christians
> are:
> 1. Pliny the Younger
> 2. Suetonius (Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus)
> 3. Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus
> 4. Titus Flavius Josephus
>
> But how about we check when these 4 guys were
> born.
> 1. Pliny the Younger
> Born 61 CE
> Died= 113 CE
> He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.
>
> 2. Suetonius (Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus)
> Born = 69 CE
> Died = 140 CE
> He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.
>
> 3. Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus
> Born = 59 CE
> Dead = 117 CE
> He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.
>
> 4. Titus Flavius Josephus
> Born = 37 CE
> Dead = 100 CE
> He never saw any Jesus. He wasn't even born.
>
> ~~~~iceman9090

Maybe the only guy you might need to see if he ever lived is someone who not many have ever heard of, Dr. Antonio Frova.

https://wp.wwu.edu/avalosj491/topic-3-is-the-any-proof-beyond-the-bible/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone

Well, you are right that most of us wouldn't have heard of Avalos. According to Semantic Scholar, which scans academic literature to see how significant individual writers are, Avalos has written 11 publications. He has been cited by 29 other authors, zero of which were "highly influential citations." So this isn't a widely respected researcher and analyst.

It's also important to note that with the exception of your WWU citation, Avalos doesn't seem to have mentioned the Jesus material anywhere--and the WWU document doesn't have any sourcing at all.

I'm not sure why we would take seriously an unevidenced blog whose author states clearly that he believes in Christianity.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/author/A.-Frova/122281731

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe the only guy you might need to see if he
> ever lived is someone who not many have ever heard
> of, Dr. Antonio Frova.
>
> https://wp.wwu.edu/avalosj491/topic-3-is-the-any-p
> roof-beyond-the-bible/
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone

Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone

1. There is no mention of Jesus, which is what we were talking about.
2. The text is badly damaged. The wikipedia page explains this.
It supposedly mentions Pilate.
3. How are they going to determine when something was carved. Go ahead and explain the dating process to me.
4. I don't have trouble believing that there was a governor named Pilate. That's not an extraordinary claim. I don't have trouble believing that some jews wrote a story about Jesus and included Pilate into it. That's not an extraordinary claim.

Now, for the ossuary claim.
“James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus”

1. It is my understand that James and the part about "son of Joseph, brother of Jesus” were not written with the same tools, were not written at the same time.

So, we are back to the million dollar question. How could this god come to Earth and not leave any evidence of his existence? No evidence of miracles. If he had done some magic and wrote in giant letters on the Moon, I am the god of Abraham, then that would be pretty impressive.
There are stories of a large number of dead people coming back to life. What happened to these people? How come nobody noticed this? Then what happened? Did they all die a day later?
Why not have them live forever?
Why not do some magic trick like this today? All the newspapers of the world would take notice.

There is 0 evidence of a magical Jesus. There is 0 evidence of a normal human Jesus. My guess is that a bunch of messiahs were around back then, trying to motivate the conquered jews. I guess one of them left a big impression on his followers when he was executed.

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> josephssmmyth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Maybe the only guy you might need to see if he
> > ever lived is someone who not many have ever
> heard
> > of, Dr. Antonio Frova.
> >
> >
> https://wp.wwu.edu/avalosj491/topic-3-is-the-any-p
>
> > roof-beyond-the-bible/
> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone
>
> Source:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone
>
> 1. There is no mention of Jesus, which is what we
> were talking about.
> 2. The text is badly damaged. The wikipedia page
> explains this.
> It supposedly mentions Pilate.
> 3. How are they going to determine when something
> was carved. Go ahead and explain the dating
> process to me.
> 4. I don't have trouble believing that there was a
> governor named Pilate. That's not an extraordinary
> claim. I don't have trouble believing that some
> jews wrote a story about Jesus and included Pilate
> into it. That's not an extraordinary claim.
>
> Now, for the ossuary claim.
> “James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus”
>
> 1. It is my understand that James and the part
> about "son of Joseph, brother of Jesus” were not
> written with the same tools, were not written at
> the same time.
>
> So, we are back to the million dollar question.
> How could this god come to Earth and not leave any
> evidence of his existence? No evidence of
> miracles. If he had done some magic and wrote in
> giant letters on the Moon, I am the god of
> Abraham, then that would be pretty impressive.
> There are stories of a large number of dead people
> coming back to life. What happened to these
> people? How come nobody noticed this? Then what
> happened? Did they all die a day later?
> Why not have them live forever?
> Why not do some magic trick like this today? All
> the newspapers of the world would take notice.
>
> ThyyThyyeretere is 0 evidence of a magical Jesus. There is 0
> evidence of a normal human Jesus. My guess is that
> a bunch of messiahs were around back then, trying
> to motivate the conquered jews. I guess one of
> them left a big impression on his followers when
> he was executed.

Wait a minute, nobody would say a zero chance Jesus Christ ever lived without being maybe receiving stern looks from maybe the entire world. What's up, I mean who says things like that? My easy first guess is maybe suggesting that a leftover component from mormo-ism, and the abuse that they exercised created a crazy strong need. Do you maybe need to have Jesus to never have existed?

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“Wait a minute, nobody would say a zero chance Jesus Christ ever lived without being maybe receiving stern looks from maybe the entire world. What's up, I mean who says things like that? My easy first guess is maybe suggesting that a leftover component from mormo-ism, and the abuse that they exercised created a crazy strong need. Do you maybe need to have Jesus to never have existed?”

==I never said that I think Jesus never existed. My opinion is that a regular human Jesus existed and was a good speaker/motivator and gave hope to the conquered jews. There were probably a bunch of such people back then.

What I said was
“There is 0 evidence of a magical Jesus. There is 0 evidence of a normal human Jesus.”

It is the same with the court system. They take person X to court and try to prove that he has done the crime. If there is no evidence or the evidence is insufficient, then the person is not guilty and he can go home.
This doesn’t mean that he is not a criminal.

It is the same in chemistry. When there is no evidence that technetium exists on Earth, the claim is “There is 0 evidence that technetium exists in nature, on Earth.” which translates to, “we don’t have that evidence”.

In other words, “Jesus is not guilty of existing”.

~~~~iceman9090

Is South Park historical literature?

In his book "The Unknown Life of Jesus, Nicolos Notovich claimed to have seen and have translated ancient documents that tell of where Jesus was for the missing 17 years.
If this is anywhere near the truth it not only verifys where he was but also that he actually existed.
Whether or not you accept Notovich's allegation or not is unimportant to me. My point is that it substantiates the claim that Jesus was in fact alive and present.
I personally choose to accept it. What you do is up to you



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2020 02:52PM by thedesertrat1.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In his book "The Unknown Life of Jesus, Nicolos
> Notovich claimed to have seen and have translated
> ancient documents that tell of where Jesus was for
> the missing 17 years

The Wikipedia article on Notovitch pretty well lays it out: N's story is fictitious: he never translated such documents; the documents did not exist where N claimed he examined them; N ultimately confessed that he had made it all up.

desertrat, please check your sources more carefully before posting....

nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thedesertrat1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In his book "The Unknown Life of Jesus,
> Nicolos
> > Notovich claimed to have seen and have
> translated
> > ancient documents that tell of where Jesus was
> for
> > the missing 17 years
>
> The Wikipedia article on Notovitch pretty well
> lays it out: N's story is fictitious: he never
> translated such documents; the documents did not
> exist where N claimed he examined them; N
> ultimately confessed that he had made it all up.
>
> desertrat, please check your sources more
> carefully before posting....
I have checked my sources and Notovich to me is believable

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nli Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > desertrat, please check your sources more
> > carefully before posting....
> I have checked my sources and Notovich to me is believable

Wow! THAT statement of yours is unbelievable. Did you check the Wikepedia article and the sources for that article? Even Bart Ehrman (who believes in Jesus' historicity) says Notovitch is bunk. Did you see that N even confessed that he had just made it all up?

By the way Wiki can also err

So does the book "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" by Christopher Moore. :-)

Biff was there too (the book says so).

It's hilarious. Here is a blurb from Amazon:

Everyone knows about the immaculate conception and the crucifixion. But what happened to Jesus between the manger and the Sermon on the Mount? In this hilarious and bold novel, the acclaimed Christopher Moore shares the greatest story never told: the life of Christ as seen by his boyhood pal, Biff.

Just what was Jesus doing during the many years that have gone unrecorded in the Bible? Biff was there at his side, and now after two thousand years, he shares those good, bad, ugly, and miraculous times. Screamingly funny, audaciously fresh, Lamb rivals the best of Tom Robbins and Carl Hiaasen.

I APOLOGIZE
After checking around due to the response here I find that in spite of my normal state of perfection I may have erred in this.
so I am going to do more research and will further apologize if I find it necessary.
Humbly and modestly yours
the desertrat

Now please don't let it go to your head!

Well done, TDR.

To save you the bother of looking him up, Greg Mortenson wrote "Three Cups of Tea," in which he relates how he was stranded in the Hindu Kush, rescued by Pakistani villagers, and set up schools in remote villages to offset the Taliban. His mountaineering misadventure turned out to be a fraud, and his schools almost non-existent--a rip-off of the donors who bought into the story.

To think that the US military assigned his book to officers serving in Afghanistan! All based on a hoax.

Carlos Castenada and his books about his alleged apprenticeship to a Mexican tribal shaman also come to mind. Very popular to the 1960s counterculture, and it got him a Ph.D from UCLA.

Remember that if Jesus really had turned water into wine, he would instantly have been the most famous person in the whole Roman empire. From Egypt to Yorkshire within a week. But instead- crickets...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2020 01:02AM by slskipper.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember that if Jesus really had turned water
> into wine, he would instantly have been the most
> famous person in the whole Roman empire. From
> Egypt to Yorkshire within a week. But instead-
> crickets...

I don’t see the point of a god turning into a human egg that gets fertilized, and then he spends 9 months in the womb of a woman. Was he drawing plans while he was in the womb?
It reminds me of Stewie from Family Guy.

I don’t know. Maybe this particular god has a lot of time to waste. It’s not like he is on a tight schedule. It’s not like he has a 9 to 5 job. Whatever silliness he does, the christian finds that it is mysterious and we can’t understand the jewish god’s mind.

~~~~iceman9090

There is indirect evidence through Paul meeting with Jesus's brother and another apostle in Jerusalem.

As for Jesus, it's not like there was a shortage of itinerant preachers and healers at that time and in that region. There were a number of them who were known my name and by reputation. The poor people of the countryside couldn't go to a medical clinic -- these healers were the only game in town. I don't see why people find it so unbelievable that one more named Jesus happened to exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2020 11:16AM by summer.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is indirect evidence through Paul meeting
> with Jesus's brother and another apostle in
> Jerusalem.
>
> As for Jesus, it's not like there was a shortage
> of itinerant preachers and healers at that time
> and in that region. There were a number of them
> who were known my name and by reputation. The poor
> people of the countryside couldn't go to a medical
> clinic -- these healers were the only game in
> town. I don't see why people find it so
> unbelievable that one more named Jesus happened to
> exist.

Don't find it unbelievable that someone by that name existed - I know a few named Jesus now.

What I do find odd is no apparent records from the time he is actually supposed to have lived. None - from the Romans and none from anyone else.

Was everyone really required to go back to their home town to be taxed and Jesus was born?

Did he really do all his deeds and no one at all wrote about it at the time?

He might as well have carried and Ax and had a Blue Ox for all the contemporary writings from his time.

JoeSmith666 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“Was everyone really required to go back to their home town to be taxed and Jesus was born?”

==I doubt that the Romans were that stupid. What they want is taxes. Pay them money and they will go away. They are not going to care who pays (your father, your uncle, your friend). Even today, I have payed for a family member’s bills and the company does not complain.

“Did he really do all his deeds and no one at all wrote about it at the time?”

==The standard answer from christians is that anyone who believed, that they joined christianity and the people who did not, simply did not write about Jesus’s magics.

The reality is that we don’t know anything about the people who wrote the New testament. What were they like? Were they right in the head? Any mental problems? Were they ready to believe none sense or did they have a “scientific spirit”?
Exactly how reliable is the average joe, even today. How many are willing to believe none sense?

When you go to a magic show, do you try to explain the trick and if you fail, do you believe that it was a really magic?
I think most of us, maybe 99% understand that a magic trick is a magic trick,even if you fail to explain it. Your incompetence, your lack of imagination, your failure at explaining an event is not a reason to believe the ludicrous.

When police detectives go to a crime scene, do they start with ridiculous conclusions such as “a ghost must have shot this man and now he is dead.”

Exactly how many cases are there in the scientific domain that not yet understood? Are we going to plug every hole in our knowledge with “god did it”?

Note: The above is a general comment and not a comment directed at JoeSmith666.
All are welcomed to give me their input.

~~~~iceman9090

Here's more on a simple repurposed step out of ancient Rome revealed and studied and placed into an Israeli museum.

https://www.thattheworldmayknow.com/the-pilate-stone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/aleteia.org/2018/06/15/archaeological-evidence-of-pontius-pilate-corroborates-gospel/amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/2018/5/3/20644446/the-pilate-stone-in-israel-s-caesarea-by-the-sea

https://www.imj.org.il/en/collections/395572

Meanwhile on this side of the Atlantic historians have finally demonstrated that Andrew Jackson really was president of the United States in the early 19th century, which proves that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile on this side of the Atlantic historians
> have finally demonstrated that Andrew Jackson
> really was president of the United States in the
> early 19th century, which proves that Joseph Smith
> was a true prophet of God.

That's in the SLC Believe It Or Not, Museum for mormo-ism.
How long would it take to get a Go&FundMe page going, opening a fully transparent analysis of everything LDS in a Ripley's format?

I think an analysis of why we seek out comfort towards nearly almost including all the incredibly stupid Joseph Smith stories could be helpful.

Yes, starting with Genesis where you really don't want your LDS version of a stairway to heavenly planet occupation.

Mormons won't do it, they can't. A Ripley's Believe It Or Not, format could possibly maybe have some "golden" (sorry) traction.

Printed every December 24. Merry Christmas!

When Saul of Tarsus set out on his journey to Damascus the whole of the known world lay in bondage. There was one state, and it was Rome. There was one master for it all, and he was Tiberius Caesar.

Everywhere there was civil order, for the arm of the Roman law was long. Everywhere there was stability, in government and in society, for the centurions saw that it was so.

But everywhere there was something else, too. There was oppression—for those who were not the friends of Tiberius Caesar. There was the tax gatherer to take the grain from the fields and the flax from the spindle to feed the legions or to fill the hungry treasury from which divine Caesar gave largess to the people. There was the impressor to find recruits for the circuses. There were executioners to quiet those whom the Emperor proscribed. What was a man for but to serve Caesar?

There was the persecution of men who dared think differently, who heard strange voices or read strange manuscripts. There was enslavement of men whose tribes came not from Rome, disdain for those who did not have the familiar visage. And most of all, there was everywhere a contempt for human life. What, to the strong, was one man more or less in a crowded world?

Then, of a sudden, there was a light in the world, and a man from Galilee saying, Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.

And the voice from Galilee, which would defy Caesar, offered a new Kingdom in which each man could walk upright and bow to none but his God. Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. And he sent this gospel of the Kingdom of Man into the uttermost ends of the earth.

So the light came into the world and the men who lived in darkness were afraid, and they tried to lower a curtain so that man would still believe salvation lay with the leaders.

But it came to pass for a while in divers places that the truth did set man free, although the men of darkness were offended and they tried to put out the light. The voice said, Haste ye. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you, for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Along the road to Damascus the light shone brightly. But afterward Paul of Tarsus, too, was sore afraid. He feared that other Caesars, other prophets, might one day persuade men that man was nothing save a servant unto them, that men might yield up their birthright from God for pottage and walk no more in freedom.

Then might it come to pass that darkness would settle again over the lands and there would be a burning of books and men would think only of what they should eat and what they should wear, and would give heed only to new Caesars and to false prophets. Then might it come to pass that men would not look upward to see even a winter’s star in the East, and once more, there would be no light at all in the darkness.

And so Paul, the apostle of the Son of Man, spoke to his brethren, the Galatians, the words he would have us remember afterward in each of the years of his Lord:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Scam

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scam
Crucify Crucify, the cry would go out!

(GoodTimingDave)

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And this is the judgment: the light has come into
> the world, and people loved the darkness rather
> than the light because their works were evil.


Lauren Daigle
Noel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=18&list=RDXPfOL4wUuMU&v=5Vwu-t7QRaE

The myth of Jesus is the reason Super Hero movies are so popular.

They both fulfill a need.

Wonder Woman is the new Jesus. The older sibling that will make everything all right--a deep human need. And so the myth will survive forever.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The myth of Jesus is the reason Super Hero movies
> are so popular.
>
> They both fulfill a need.
>
> Wonder Woman is the new Jesus. The older sibling
> that will make everything all right--a deep human
> need. And so the myth will survive forever.

Aren't we living the "One Gifted Individual" can prove a great big Yuge difference?

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Wonder Woman is the new Jesus. The older sibling
> that will make everything all right--a deep human
> need. And so the myth will survive forever.


Exactomundo!

I want a Jesus. Someone who can magically heal your body pains, make cancers go away, put back together the broken dish, etc.
In fact, it would be even better if we were all Jesuses.

You can name it Jesus, Superman, Spiderman, the doctor from Star Trek... the name doesn't matter.
It is a fantasy that all humans have since forever.

~~~~iceman9090



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2020 10:52AM by iceman9090.

Proving the Historicity of Jesus? | Andrew - Twinsburg, OH | Atheist Experience 22.10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5AordEPtok
Length = 26:22

@ 3:27 David Fitzgerald says the Bible is not reliable. The description on Pontius Pilate does not match historical records.

~~~~iceman9090

You make me hear Bonnie Tyler . . . one of my favorites.

"Where have all the good men gone and where are all the Gods?
Where's the street wise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need . . .

I NEED A HERO

Isn't that what we are all wanting so badly right now more than ever? I hope everybody finds one or knows how to be one. It's not enough for me to just say, "Well, that's life."

Dusty Rusty

In the brittle fragile cracks of our broken lives sometimes the mended seams deserve to stand out in maybe an artistic fashion.

Kintsugi carries that deeper meaning very well.


https://blogs.brown.edu/amst-2666-s01-2018-spring/tag/jewish-culture/

https://www.mendedlife.com/kintsugi-our-god-of-restoration/

Jesus lived only in the Bible. Died there, too.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus lived only in the Bible. Died there, too.

The Book of Mormon characters Joseph Smith surely might have made up or maybe otherwise plagiarized certainly dried up and died right there. Smith had been scolded badly and publicly by a local church pastor where his firstborn child died. With that, the end of the world scare (Year Without Summer) along with the tragic loss of his dear older brother his grievances remained strong against the small Anglican community. You've got the same hang-on's that Joseph's broken thinking couldn't muster to let go of.
There's absolutely nothing in Mormonism for either of us and since Jesus's name is associated with the LDS church I can't see how you might be able to ever stop renouncing Christ. I think you've got a pass, you've certainly earned it.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unearthing-world-jesus-180957515/

If only Mormonism had just one fragment of anything, anything at all.

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“With that, the end of the world scare (Year Without Summer)”

The year without summer event:
The year without a summer in 1816 was caused by the volcanic eruption of Mount Tambora in 1815.
Joseph Smith was born in 1805 and so, he was 11 at that time.
What impact did 1816 have on the USA? Was this something registered in newspapers?

“There's absolutely nothing in Mormonism for either of us and since Jesus's name is associated with the LDS church I can't see how you might be able to ever stop renouncing Christ. I think you've got a pass, you've certainly earned it.”

==The evidence is simply not there. If there is, then I have not yet seen it.

Source:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unearthing-world-jesus-180957515/

I just scrolled to the bottom and
Clinton max Walker writes:
No friggin' way! A synagogue, or temple, or a seemingly religious building? In Israel? Where people loved to congregate for all sorts of reasons? Must be Jesus! Must be Christianity! Anything mysterious in the land of the Hebrews must be Jesus and only Jesus, because only Jesus would have buildings for people to congregate in. Unheard of before his time. Not only did Jesus invent the chair, he seems to have invented holy buildings, too. Pffft... Or, it could just be a place Israelis congregated in Israel, without having to namedrop a person that, from all accounts, doesn't seem to have existed. Why can't people get excited about it without having to attribute celestial imaginings to it?

~~~~iceman9090

"What impact did 1816 have on the USA?"

Mormons think that **everything** revolves around them. In this case, that Tambora's eruption and subsequent "year w/o summer" caused Joe Sr. to move his clan from Vermont to New York so Joe Jr. could find the plates.

"In all it is estimated that Mount Tambora killed 71,000 people, some 11-12,000 were killed directly by the eruption. …Among those families whose lives and livelihood was shattered by a lone mountain across the world was a rural farm family in Vermont. Having lost his own prosperous farm, the family patriarch was reduced to being a tenant farmer. Three times that summer he planted his crops, and times they failed. He was ruined. He had had enough of the rugged mountains of Vermont, and would seek his fortune in newly opened land to the south and west. Accordingly he moved his family to a new settlement called Palmyra in the State of New York. By so doing, he brought his young son, Joseph Smith Jr. to live near a hill that would come to be called Cumorah, where Joseph would one day unearth a sacred record that we call today, the Book of Mormon. Truly the Lord works by means to accomplish His purposes."

https://historyofthesaints.org/mount-tambora-and-the-year-without-a-summer/

See? Mormon God couldn't think of a way to get the Smiths to Palmyra other than mass slaughter. "Truly the Lord works by means to accomplish His purposes." 70,000 people in Indonesia died horrible deaths, but it's all good because Joe & Co. moved to where Moroni buried the plates!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1983/01/a-year-without-a-summer?lang=eng

Dallin Ox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "What impact did 1816 have on the USA?"
>
> Mormons think that **everything** revolves around
> them. In this case, that Tambora's eruption and
> subsequent "year w/o summer" caused Joe Sr. to
> move his clan from Vermont to New York so Joe Jr.
> could find the plates.
>
> "In all it is estimated that Mount Tambora killed
> 71,000 people, some 11-12,000 were killed directly
> by the eruption. …Among those families whose
> lives and livelihood was shattered by a lone
> mountain across the world was a rural farm family
> in Vermont. Having lost his own prosperous farm,
> the family patriarch was reduced to being a tenant
> farmer. Three times that summer he planted his
> crops, and times they failed. He was ruined. He
> had had enough of the rugged mountains of Vermont,
> and would seek his fortune in newly opened land to
> the south and west. Accordingly he moved his
> family to a new settlement called Palmyra in the
> State of New York. By so doing, he brought his
> young son, Joseph Smith Jr. to live near a hill
> that would come to be called Cumorah, where Joseph
> would one day unearth a sacred record that we call
> today, the Book of Mormon. Truly the Lord works by
> means to accomplish His purposes."
>
> https://historyofthesaints.org/mount-tambora-and-t
> he-year-without-a-summer/
>
> See? Mormon God couldn't think of a way to get the
> Smiths to Palmyra other than mass slaughter.
> "Truly the Lord works by means to accomplish His
> purposes." 70,000 people in Indonesia died
> horrible deaths, but it's all good because Joe &
> Co. moved to where Moroni buried the plates!
>
> https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1
> 983/01/a-year-without-a-summer?lang=eng
Interesting side for maybe mormo-ism to try and take, the dozens and dozens of crazy (fear based) cults coming out of NY and Pennsylvania because of The Year Without Summer includes wacky weirdly anxious Joseph Smith and his goldenrod religion.

End of the world (FGS) church, one of dozens but the clearly worst sex cult of entre group. We got multiple wives and wives as young as maybe (Brigham Young) teenagers for grown forty four year old men. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

The banging of Joseph Smith's fourteen year old houskeeper fanny while married is too sick to maybe contemplate.
Yet, the men flocked in.
Mormon men.

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> josephssmmyth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> “With that, the end of the world scare (Year
> Without Summer)”
>
> The year without summer event:
> The year without a summer in 1816 was caused by
> the volcanic eruption of Mount Tambora in 1815.
> Joseph Smith was born in 1805 and so, he was 11 at
> that time.
> What impact did 1816 have on the USA? Was this
> something registered in newspapers?
>
> “There's absolutely nothing in Mormonism for
> either of us and since Jesus's name is associated
> with the LDS church I can't see how you might be
> able to ever stop renouncing Christ. I think
> you've got a pass, you've certainly earned it.”
>
> ==The evidence is simply not there. If there is,
> then I have not yet seen it.
>
> Source:
> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unearthing-
> world-jesus-180957515/
>
> I just scrolled to the bottom and
> Clinton max Walker writes:
> No friggin' way! A synagogue, or temple, or a
> seemingly religious building? In Israel? Where
> people loved to congregate for all sorts of
> reasons? Must be Jesus! Must be Christianity!
> Anything mysterious in the land of the Hebrews
> must be Jesus and only Jesus, because only Jesus
> would have buildings for people to congregate in.
> Unheard of before his time. Not only did Jesus
> invent the chair, he seems to have invented holy
> buildings, too. Pffft... Or, it could just be a
> place Israelis congregated in Israel, without
> having to namedrop a person that, from all
> accounts, doesn't seem to have existed. Why can't
> people get excited about it without having to
> attribute celestial imaginings to it?
>
> ~~~~iceman9090

Don't you see, you might need a comfort faith of atheism to believe in to maybe replace your mormo-ism?

During the 'Year Without Summer' crops failed and snow fell in June so yeah, it was pretty bad and a lot of these poorly schooled and un-churched farmboys were ripe to fall for almost anything. Joseph Smith took full advantage of their fear instilled from crop failures and farm animals starving.

Don't be unschooled and vulnerable to the godless atheism apparently spreading their own version of the stupid second great awakening today. Orange man bad and the mask regiment is our only escape from covid 19 panic seems to be the new mantra. See the similarities?

Who knows about the ivermectin sucess?

https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20201208/this-was-a-gift-to-us-ivermectin-effective-for-covid19-prophylaxis-treatment



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2020 12:29AM by josephssmmyth.

The historical records are there. They're what you'd expect from the period and about a person not famous during his life.

Scholars are happy to summarize the evidence. They don't entertain a debate. There is no serious question whether he existed.

You wanna debate, the details and significance are up for grabs. Go wild.

What records are there--records from during his own life rather then second-hand?