I should probably find a politically inclined forum for this one.
Can anyone recommend one?

MY COMMENT:
It seems as if to some people, politics is extremely important. Winning the seat is extremely important to them. The presidential seat is made of milk and honey or something to them.
In the case of Donald Trump, I understand that he is a narcissist and losing is out of the question, apologizing is out of the question no matter what the situation is (business, politics, his personal life).

But what makes an ordinary citizen choose violence for politics? Why is it so important to butcher, shoot, stab people who are liberals?

The following is the story. It does not explain to me what makes such a citizen. What in the world is going on in his head?
Source:
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/aaron-huffman-prince-william-county-deputy-fired-052334093.html

I will paste the text here since yahoo news pages are always temporary.

Virginia Deputy Fired After Far-Right Calls For Violence On Social Media
Mary PapenfussTrends Reporter, HuffPost
HuffPostSun., December 27, 2020, 12:23 a.m. EST

A Virginia sheriff’s deputy was fired Saturday after a freelance journalist linked his social media account to chilling threats against politicians and judges.

One of the comments — posted on the deputy’s “WeThePeopleWarrior” profile on the right-wing social media platform Parler — called on followers to find the homes of politicians and “liberal” judges, and “remove them from their sanctuary.”

“Take back your State capitals,” the post urged. “Find the homes of every Governor, mayor, attorney general, liberal judge, senator, congressman and every major media/social media CEO...find them, remove them from their sanctuary. Bring the nightmare to where they lay their heads and kiss their loved ones. Show them that they are NOT untouchable.”

The deputy was identified in a local press report and by The Washington Post as Aaron Hoffman. He was exposed by Charlottesville, Virginia, freelance journalist Molly Conger, who revealed the posts in a Twitter thread.

Hoffman told the Post that the account was his, but insisted he didn’t post the comments. “I did not make those posts,” Hoffman said. “I’m trying to figure out who did.” He said the comments also “disturbed” him.

By Saturday afternoon all of Hoffman’s social media accounts had either been set to private or deleted.

Another post from Hoffman’s account included a threat to kill anyone who touches his children to vaccinate them against COVID-19 without his consent. “Not a threat, but a promise,” the post said.

The person behind the WeThePeopleWarrior account also posted that he would become “insanely violent” if anyone tried to make him wear a face mask. Additionally, there was a threatening comment about former President Barack Obama, and a suggestion that the life of Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts “needs to be shortened.” Roberts has become a particular target recently of the extreme right wing because of his lack of action to overturn the 2020 presidential election.


Prince William County Sheriff Glendell Hill, a Republican, told the Post that he found the comments “very despicable. That’s why I took the action that I took,” he added, referring to Hoffman’s firing. “I certainly don’t approve of that, and, of course, it’s against our policy.”

The sheriff’s office issued a statement via Facebook on Saturday, saying it had been “notified about disturbing comments being made on several social media outlets by a deputy sheriff,” who was not named.

Following an internal affairs investigation, the “deputy has been terminated from employment with our office,” the statement said. The office thanked the public for “bringing this to our attention.”

People commenting on the Facebook page hailed the quick action by authorities, but feared that Hoffman might now seek employment on another police force. Many were also concerned that he’s still apparently heavily armed. Conger reposted a WeThePeopleWarrior post on Parler showing off an assortment of weapons.

An Arkansas police chief resigned last month after a Parler message calling for “death to all Marxist Democrats” was linked to him. Lang Holland, now the former police chief of Marshall, initially claimed his account had been hacked, but later admitted he had written the posts.

(3 images not included)


~~~~iceman9090

The traitors hate being exposed.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The traitors hate being exposed.

Who is the traitor? The policeman who wants to kill liberals or the liberals?

It seems to me that Donald is the one who did harm to his country by pretending that COVID-19 is just like the flu. He could of closed down the borders immediately and closed down all businesses for 1 month and the damage to people (health) and the economy would have been minor.

Donald wasn't ready to be a leader in case of virus disaster. I'm sure he was plenty ready in case of a traditional war. (I am not saying that COVID-19 was used in warfare).

Canada made the same mistake. They were slow to close the borders.

~~~~iceman9090

What is a "liberal"?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is a "liberal"?

I asked the same question, once.

A liberal in Canada is someone who is part of the Liberal political party.
There is also the Conservative party which used to be called the Tories.
There is the New Democratic Party.
There is the Bloc Quebecois which represents Quebec at the federal level.

Now for the answer, if I remember correctly:
For a united statian, a liberal is someone who is less religious than a conservative.
A conservative desires to establish a theocracy. Some of them consider atheists as traitors and they should be banished from the USA. To them, an atheist is a communist, which are the sworn enemy of the USA.
Abortions should be banned according to the conservative.
For liberals, abortion is the choice of the pregnant woman since it is her body.
Conservatives want to fund churches with tax dollars collected from the entire USA population,
Liberals are against that.
Conservatives claim that the founding fathers were christian and that a christian theocracy needs to be established.
Liberals claim that all the founding fathers wrote a piece of paper that says separation of church and state and that people should be free to enjoy whatever religion they want.
Conservatives think that they have the power to protect the USA using prayer.
I’m not sure what liberals think.
Conservatives hate communism but they enjoy doing business with China but they hate North Korea.
Apparently, conservatives like war. The wars after WW2, in which the USA was the attacker, was started by conservatives.
Conservatives politicians are super rich and dislike communism since in a communist regime, they have to give up their fortune.
Conservatives want deregulation. They want to turn jails, hospitals, power generation into private enterprise. I’m guessing they want to take control and become richer.

~~~~iceman9090

Trump would have been a terrible wartime president. He lacks the ability to negotiate with allies, the wisdom to defer to his generals, and any sense that war requires a steady hand rather than a completely transactional attitude.

As Clausewitz noted, war is the continuation of politics by other means. Trump was terrible at politics and at diplomacy; and he could not have managed the epitome of those things, which is military conflict.

Can you find an article where free and fair elections and secure boarders help determine the overall health of any nation?

Can you?

"Secure boarders" Yeah, a simple credit check isn't enough. hahahahaha!

I know you meant secure borders, and I hope to see you at the Canadian border soon...



"Free and fair elections" I love how super-PACs contribute to free and fair elections.

Lemme ask you a question: why did America declare war on Spain in 1898? (Of course, your response doesn't matter; I'm just trying to point out that there will always be a wide spectrum of thought regarding how people OUGHT to think and live their lives. America's attempt at Democracy never ceases to evolve...or devolve.)



None of the folderol you publish here has any effect on how most of us think, but as long as you're having a good time, and RfM allows it, knock yerself out, dude.

We don't have definitive results yet, but it appears the clown who blew himself up in Nashville on Christmas morning, to the tune of Petula Clark's Downtown, was somehow protesting 5G cellular service. You couldn't make this stuff up.

I think it is a demonstration that mental illness can be contagious. I would love to be able to jump ahead 300 years and see what the future decided about our present.

Qanon is killing America, literally.
And they're the biggest threat to US security.
Crazy, true, story in Wired this weekend in my state.

https://www.wired.com/story/antifa-social-media-rumor-forks-washington/

This is America gone nuttier than squirrel shit.

I have a relative that I'm constantly trying to pull back from that level of nuttery. It's exhausting.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qanon is killing America, literally.
> And they're the biggest threat to US security.
> Crazy, true, story in Wired this weekend in my
> state.
>
> https://www.wired.com/story/antifa-social-media-ru
> mor-forks-washington/
>
> This is America gone nuttier than squirrel shit.

Wow, that is pretty long story. Is that a book?

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> schrodingerscat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Qanon is killing America, literally.
> > And they're the biggest threat to US security.
> > Crazy, true, story in Wired this weekend in my
> > state.
> >
> >
> https://www.wired.com/story/antifa-social-media-ru
>
> > mor-forks-washington/
> >
> > This is America gone nuttier than squirrel
> shit.
>
> Wow, that is pretty long story. Is that a book?
>
> ~~~~iceman9090

Yeah, long story, but if you read the first part and the last, you get the gist.

Bus full of hippies goes to Forks, WA for a camping trip. Local QAnon folks get wind of it. Broadcast that it's a bus full of Antifa protesters looking to do to Forks what they've done elsewhere in the state, fuck shit up.
Local Qanon group calls in the cavalry.
Hippies have no idea WTF is going on.
They pull off the road to camp and somebody cuts down 4 trees to block their way out. Somebody else fires a gun. The hippies just want to GTFO of Forks ASAP, because they're being harassed by rednecks. Next thing you know Sheriff shows up to settle things down. Turns out it was just a big misunderstanding and the locals apologized to the hippies who went on their merry way.
There's a pattern emerging here.

The violence of the rhetoric coming from the far right is indeed disturbing. I also don't like how they equate anyone left of center with "Satan's forces," as if people of good will can't disagree with them. I also don't like the demonization and overt mistrust of the mainstream news media.

There was a time when people on opposite sides of the political fence could disagree in a civil manner. My mom was a lifelong conservative (I'm a moderate,) and we lived together for the last ten years of her life. During that time I got a strong dose of the conservative media including Fox News and the Washington Times. This would have been in the 90s and early aughts. I don't have any memory of the sort of hateful rhetoric that is common now. Instead, I came to appreciate my mom's opinion that hearing all sides of the political spectrum held a certain degree of usefulness.

I have to wonder what caused the change, if it can be attributed to QAnon or something else.

Fox News was once a decent network. I frequently watched it and preferred it to the other networks (ironically including when Tucker Carlson was boring people with his insipidity on MSNBC).

No, QAnon didn't do this. QAnon feeds, and feeds off of, misinformation and extremism that were already increasing. The seeds of this absurdity were planted in the late 2000s if not the middle 1990s.

I've voted for both Democrats and Republicans for president. My attitude is that if a candidate is not too extreme one way or the other, I will consider that person for the office. But I feel that the current hateful attitude on the far right is giving me a distaste for the Republican party. I wonder if conservatives realize that their hateful attitudes are starting to push away the people in the middle.

We are on the same page. I've voted for both Republican and Democratic presidential candidates as well. I used to believe that in terms of foreign and economic policy the GOP was the better alternative. But boy has that changed.

More importantly, what is at stake now is constitutional democracy. That is far more important than any particular field of governmental expertise.

You note that the GOP is pushing away the center. That is true. the fundamental problem is that that party has long been the party of white people, which is a problem when non-whites are approaching numerical superiority. The answer was to adjust policy to appeal to a broader range of people.

But that was anathema to the GOP core, so they doubled down on a losing bet. Now the only way to maintain their dominance, or even electoral equality, is to break the system. You see that in the stacking of the supreme court, the gerrymandering of voting districts, and the attempt to overthrow a fair election.

This isn't about policy anymore. It really isn't.

I've voted both ways in my day as well, but have come to see myself on the far-far right these days. Don't get me wrong, wearing a mask is fine, I avoid sneezing in public, and I do it religiously, but I don't think the virus was any reason to create trillions in deficit spending. What disturbs me most of all is that over half the country seems to want socialism/safety, They don't remember the horrors of the past, they don't remember the USSR and Poland, all the work Regan did to get rid of the Socialists. Americans forget fast (especially some on this board).

As far as I see Politics are important because we're doomed! Socialism is the devils plan because it's a lie told to us by a few intellectuals, a ploy to get power where they use the minorities to cause a ruckus and make the rest of us afraid. We use to call these hidden people the illuminati but now that's passe or something, so the vocab has to change...

Trilling again?

Here's your Dominion software patch job..

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/will-georgias-new-voting-machines-solve-election-problems-or-make-them-worse

In four years, what do you think we'll be using?

Ooohhhh...

My heavens you need to read what you cite.

That article is not about a Dominion Software patch. The Dominion Software *is* the patch. The broken system was produced by Diebold Election Systems, which has subsequently gone out of business. Now you are falsely suggesting that Dominion is the problem.

If there are any flaws in Georgia's new system, it is in the use of iPads and other things to gather the votes that will be entered into the Dominion system--which works well. Once again you are linking to articles that don't say what you think.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My heavens you need to read what you cite.
>
> That article is not about a Dominion Software
> patch. The Dominion Software *is* the patch. The
> broken system was produced by Diebold Election
> Systems, which has subsequently gone out of
> business. Now you are falsely suggesting that
> Dominion is the problem.
>
> If there are any flaws in Georgia's new system, it
> is in the use of iPads and other things to gather
> the votes that will be entered into the Dominion
> system--which works well. Once again you are
> linking to articles that don't say what you think.
Ain't nothing about Dominion voting tabulation machines that provide they'll ever likely be used again..

"Dominion sent out a last-minute software patch."

And you're right, complex iPad integration concerns persist along with main circuit breaker failures
They've done themselves in..

If the election went Trump's way, he would think the count perfectly fine and fair. He just didn't like losing.

First, thanks to Josephssmmyth for locating that quotation. I missed that.

As for summer's point, the proof is in the pudding. Trump is challenging the procedures and machinery in constituencies where he lost. He is not challenging the same procedures and machinery in districts that he won. Logically either all the systems are basically sound or they are virtually all bad and the entire election--including GOP seats in the House and Senate--must be redone. But Trump doesn't want to do that.

The president's view is that of the roughly 25 states that use Dominion's systems, the systems worked in the 20 or so states that opted for Trump but failed in the five or six that voted for Biden. And in those states where the systems failed, they only failed in the presidential race but not in any Congressional races that the GOP won.

Go figure.

https://apnews.com/article/technology-senate-elections-georgia-elections-voting-machines-6a6be19f168a719e68c107c7426df9f3

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lawofficer.com/two-georgia-counties-using-same-software-of-michigan-counties-encounter-software-glitches/&ved=2ahUKEwiok9qM0PLtAhWJX80KHbA1DVo4ChAWMAJ6BAgIEAE&usg=AOvVaw3JJAmuUm2a-8bbRh7cnKs4

Glitches and patches to the software is purely unprecedented, inbetween elections!

So, here's a question for you. Did you have a problem in 2004 with the voting software in Ohio? Which was quite blatantly a problem? Or do you only hammer on this stuff because Trump got beat? I think we all know your agenda here.

May I suggest to everyone to stop responding to Joseph, no matter how much you want to. He is nothing but a troll. He doesn't care what position he takes, as long as he can elicit some kind of reaction and waste people's time.

By giving him undeserved attention, we're merely encouraging him to continue his aberrant behavior. He's simply not worth it.

[end PSA]

That comment just pre-empted a post on my part. Thank you for the slap upside my head.

I posted a link on BoJ's Covid thread in reply to eod. It was about trolls. Compare the list of signs there with his posts and he matches every one.
Then search Zeeeezrom (with 4or5) e's and compare those posts with josephssmmyth, and notice the similarities.

[|] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I posted a link on BoJ's Covid thread in reply to
> eod. It was about trolls. Compare the list of
> signs there with his posts and he matches every
> one.
> Then search Zeeeezrom (with 4or5) e's and compare
> those posts with josephssmmyth, and notice the
> similarities.

No way, positive Trump posts get quickly labled as mere trolls, possible main street media (MSM) brainwashing as mayhem and maybe Jesus's wonderful beautitudes as even backward or infantile.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.learnreligions.com/what-are-the-beatitudes-701505&ved=2ahUKEwiQx_LqgvPtAhVRu1kKHY2ICGQQFjACegQIJRAF&usg=AOvVaw3i5zJFfb61clk9Lx1YSueX

It's pretty easy to sometimes predict more often than not. Y'just roll with it enough to watch, and let it run and you'll see what I mean. As long as it doesn't bother anybody too much.

Overpopulation breeds territorialism.

The game is then on!

Not buying the premise. Russia is hardly overpopulated, having enormous expanses of empty. S Korea has 51 million people in an area smaller than Utah.

Overpopulation is a problem, but there are many very densely populated countries that are doing just fine, and thinly populated countries that are not. There are other factors at play.

And I thought that sounded so solid. I guess I should have finished with " but not always." I do take our point.

I would also say that some of the thinner populated areas have more up for grab and so inspire territorialism whereas the extreme populations are so dense it is much harder to stake a claim?

To address the original question:

It seems that religion is suffering diminished importance in the average person's life.

Without religion, there is a void in most people's lives that leaves one with no allegiance to anything in particular.

Some, not all, who have eschewed religion seem to be filling that void with political interests as well as politically based social interests (i.e.: racial disparity).

The most telling aspect to this idea is that people used to belittle others' religious dogma and purposefully avoid any information that could have bolstered a different religion. This behavior is now seen in the shunning of information that is not supportive of one's own political stripe and outright condemnation of 'misinformation'.

The zeal and fervor that once was applied to religion now seems to be applied to political views.

I'm not sure we're the better for this shift. Division seems deeper and wider now.

It looks to me like political tribalism is actually superseding religious tribalism. The cultural ideology of Mormons and evangelicals at the present doesn't seem particularly Christian, and they don't seem to much care that it is not.

On a recent edition of WNYC's "On The Media," (carried nationally by NPR), one of the guests was quoted as saying that what has occurred in parts of the white evangelical community is nothing short of religious nationalism. Literally, it takes American nationalism and adds a religious component to it.

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I should probably find a politically inclined
> forum for this one.
> Can anyone recommend one?
>


I'm sorry to write that I can't think of one that doesn't skew to the left or to the right.

That's a shame.

No matter where you are on the political spectrum, there are people who consider you to be totally skewed.

You can't even please ONE person all the time, so ...

Joly Jesus, Batman, I don't agree with that!

When's the last time you were skewed, Glays?

What, you think I'll be offended if you misbelle my neim?

Yes it's a shame. American politics is like a penguin.

It has both a left wing and a right wing. But they are only good for flapping around wildly and making noises.


As the hold joke goes . . .

Iceman9090 wrote in part:

"But what makes an ordinary citizen choose violence for politics? Why is it so important to butcher, shoot, stab people who are liberals?"

While there are a lot of possible answers to your question, let me tell a story that illustrates one. I can't remember where I read or heard it, and I cannot vouch for its authenticity, save for the current behavior of some of my fellow humans.

Back in 1979, when Ronald Reagan was beginning his second run for the United States presidency, he approached Jerry Fallwell of the newly-created Moral Majority. Mr. Reagan wanted to know how he could get the people that Mr. Fallwell was influencing with his new organization to vote for Mr. Reagan.

According to the story, Mr. Fallwell's response was both classic and destructive. To paraphrase (because I can't remember the exact quote), Mr. Fallwell told Mr. Reagan that the only way to attract Moral Majority members to Mr. Reagan's side was to demonize the other side; that is, the other side had to be shown to represent the real-life will of Satan on earth. This Mr. Reagan did, and it helped him win the vote in 1980.

Beyond its truthfulness (which I have not established), the story holds a very troubling message. For if your political opponent represents Satan instead of differing legitimate philosophies of how to run the U.S. and move it forward, then as a supporter (especially if you're not very well-educated), you come in time to believe that the end justifies the means; that is, you can do whatever you want to keep your evil opponent from winning, be it legal or illegal, because your opponent represents nothing less than the evil that Satan will do on earth. Having that kind of mindset about candidates from the opposing party is ultimately very destructive to the kind of democratic republic that the U.S. actually is--it makes the supporter believe that his candidate can do no wrong while the candidate's opponent can do nothing but wrong. Such thinking fails to substantively evaluate the ideas of either candidate and could very well lead to (some say it already has) the election of demagogues who have no concern other than to get themselves reelected and to maintain power, no matter what the cost is to the country as a whole.

Sad if true, the story.

Along with that, a long time ago I watched a study (too long ago now to remember the source like a 20/20 or 60 Minutes) that gave evidence that it was much,much easier to rally people against something than for something.

What you have written above goes along with that idea. Falwell's followers weren't voting FOR Reagan, they were voting AGAINST Satan. Demonization is useful.

Even more I would say with both religion and politics that people will overlook a lot that they don't agree with as long as you profess to be with them on the thing they are most against.

Two excellent posts in a row. Blindguy explains a phenomenon and D&D draws the bigger inferences.

It's enough to make one wish there were a separation between church and state. . .

Church and State. In a blind taste test you couldn't tell one from the other. Prego and Ragu are further apart.

Now they are. . .

blindguy and D&D hit it out of the park!

Listening to people, even if they're not part of the same political party, is supposed to be how to govern a country. Instead, some parties decide that that's too hard and start scapegoating, the other party and minorities being favorite targets. Because why make a plan and negotiate when you could just blame everything bad on someone else? And the conspiracy-loving troglodytes eat it up (see macaRomney's post above).

Middle Ground is an endangered species.

I think free talk radio have done more damage to the US and fueled our political and religious polarity than just about any other element of our society. It's nearly entirely right wing and mixes religion with politics. It relies heavily on the demonization of 'liberals' as satan incarnate and muddying the water with labels as 'socialist' with the actual attributes of fascism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2020 08:49PM by Devoted Exmo.

I agree with that.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6129624901001#sp=show-clips

The Paranoid Lost Clueless And Worthless Americans Hardly Worth The Powder To Blow Em To Hell (Brigham Young)

That talk radio has that much power to ‘do damage to the US’ speaks to the fact that so many people who are leaving religion really are desperate to find a replacement for their former spiritual leaders...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2020 09:30PM by csuprovograd.

Politics is only an affront.
It identifies "the other side" as targets.

It's just like having a badge.
License to torment & abuse others.

It's many people's crutch
Just like religion