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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 01:28PM

A significant number of Americans believe misinformation about the coronavirus and the presidential election — as well as conspiracy theories like QAnon, a new NPR/Ipsos poll finds.

Forty percent of respondents said they believe the coronavirus was made in a lab in China even though there is no evidence for this. Scientists say the virus was transmitted to humans from another species.

And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome.

The poll results add to mounting evidence that misinformation is gaining a foothold in American society and that conspiracy theories are going mainstream, especially during the coronavirus pandemic. This has raised concerns about how to get people to believe in a "baseline reality," said Chris Jackson, a pollster with Ipsos.

"Increasingly, people are willing to say and believe stuff that fits in with their view of how the world should be, even if it doesn't have any basis in reality or fact," Jackson said.

The poll asked respondents whether they believe that "a group of Satan-worshipping elites who run a child sex ring are trying to control our politics and media" — the false allegation at the heart of QAnon. While only 17% said it was true, another 37% said they didn't know.

"It's total bonkers," said Jackson, "and yet ... essentially half of Americans believe it's true or think that maybe it's true. They don't really know. And I think that's terrifying that half of Americans believe that could be the case."

According to the poll, 39% of Americans believe another key tenet of the QAnon theory: that there is a deep state working to undermine President Trump.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/951095644/even-if-its-bonkers-poll-finds-many-believe-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories?

Is it just a coincidence that the majority of those who believe 'totally bonkers' conspiracy theories just happen to put more trust in 'faith leaders' and Donald Trump, than scientists?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2020 01:33PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 01:47PM

Opie's daily thred ~



shrilling N P R B S ~



'totally bonkers' ~

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 01:53PM

ziller's:
> daily (off topic) threds ~ over the past 30 days


(ot) is santa clause real ? ~ (no spoilers) ~
( ( o/t ) ? ) ~ re: hunters of bigfoot ~


Other than that, not one original thought.

> 'totally fucking bonkers' ~

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 02:49PM

thx 4 that OPie ~



u shrilling 4 ziller now ~



thx 4 your good work ~




schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ziller's:
> > daily (off topic) threds ~ over the past 30
> days
>
>
> https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2353076 ~
> https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2350847 ~
>
>
> Other than that, not one original thought.
>
> > 'totally fucking bonkers' ~

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 01:49PM

Censorship, as many in legacy media are lately proclaiming, is the answer.

I’m grateful Glenn Greenwald and others are documenting this horrific “answer” to the posed problem in real time.

Those who have enjoyed a monopoly on creating “baseline reality” are now feeling threatened by Patreon, Substack, Twitter, etc.


The amazing thing about establishment American political culture is how easy it is to get citizens to believe everything is the “other side’s” fault. Entire careers are built on this paradigm, and large swaths of the citizenry are happy enough to live their entire lives believing in this paradigm.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 01:57PM

The irony is you think reality is "created." The truth is that it is independent of human--or Human--perception.

If you want to evaluate the media's misinformation, the correct approach is to see how closely various sources adhere to facts. Your preferred media have a far worse factual record than that of what you describe as "legacy media."

Twitter is a dependable source? Well, thanks for putting your reasoning skills in proper perspective.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 08:23PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The irony is you think reality is "created." The
> truth is that it is independent of human--or
> Human--perception.

Really?
Not according to the double slit experiment. Didn't it prove that reality is entirely dependent upon perception. Rainbows do not exist without you there to observe them.

> If you want to evaluate the media's
> misinformation, the correct approach is to see how
> closely various sources adhere to facts. Your
> preferred media have a far worse factual record
> than that of what you describe as "legacy media."
>
> Twitter is a dependable source? Well, thanks for
> putting your reasoning skills in proper
> perspective.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 08:36PM

Scientists do not agree that reality is dependent on observation. Some think it is, others think it is not.

In the world we inhabit, nothing that occurs on a quantum level is going to change the the pandemic to date or the recent election. The feelings of Trump and his merry band of lemmings will not change those quantifiable facts.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 04, 2021 11:32AM

Investigative journalist Glen Greenwald: Florida 2000, 2004 elections, and then more recently in 2016 & 20, and a New Orleans documentary, about 2006-7(?) after hurricane Katrina, and it's wake, about how (mostly poor black) folks fared and were treated (FEMA) - or mistreated - in it's aftermath, titled From The Big Easy To The Big Empty.

Without Michael Moore (and I don't mean Michael Moore, the writer of Medicinal Plants books), Glen Greenwald, Tom Hartman, Amy Goodman (met her in Seattle, 2004(?) after a presentation at Town Hall)/ Democracy Now, Jim Hightower, Noam Chomsky, Bill McKibbon, Arianna Huffington (Post), and the like, more people might be lost.

Good thing they're found.
Informed. Wise. Attentive.

Without the High Country News, National Native News, The Hightower Lowdown, Stardate, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, RFM, and such, I might be a not on a log - I am knot! - not to mention ABC, BBC, CBC, and anything but DC or ACDC.

When I want to know the truth, I just stick my neck out, put my ear to the ground, find other intelligent life/ nature, or euphoria.

I am a leader - not a follower - and won't be mislead. I'd rather have NO NEWS at all than false news, faux news, or news particles.

I have no room, or tolerance, for lies, fake news, or imitation truth, which I throw out on their ears.

It all depends on who you listen to. Don't listen to just anyone. Only to the wise-

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 06, 2021 05:24PM

OOPS-
Correction: [Should have read] Greg Palast did the New Orleans documentary (Democracy Now) in 2007 after & about hurricane Katrina and how some folks fared and were treated (FEMA) - or mistreated - in it's aftermath, titled From The Big Easy To The Big Empty.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 04:16PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2020 05:36PM by anybody.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 04:19PM

Exactly.

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Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 04:48PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly.

Right now, all I'm 100% sure of is that disappointment will meet expectations. Whether or not the consensus is 60/40 on either side or simply fifty-fifty the reckoning will soon come, so best to maybe try and prepare your hearts.
Your heartache may have nearly arisen.

How do you brace and strengthen yourself for these possible contingencies?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:20PM

Yawn.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:27PM

remember lot's wife ~



that rebelious salt pillar ~



she sound pretty smart ~

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: December 31, 2020 10:28PM

I like to think Lot's Wife was the hero in the story, since she showed empathy toward the sinners.

Maybe that's what being the "salt of the earth" means.

just musing...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 31, 2020 10:34PM

I feel that way, obviously.

But I'd go further. How likely is it that all the people in a city were sinners? That's patriarchal bilge. The men may have told stories of how evil everyone was, but LW recalled afternoons in the local park, neighborhood birthday parties, and maybe borrowing a cup of sugar from the Canaanites next door.

LW was empathetic, to be sure, but she was also honest. She wasn't going to condemn people who were the wrong color or the wrong religion simply because the Brethren wanted her to.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:37PM

When two individuals, with different views and conflicting perspectives, meet to discuss a common future, there will be no useful outcome.

Which is pretty much all one expects of the OP's threads. Yes, I know that I am no better, but I make no claim that such is the case. And sometimes I'm funny!

I hope that we can maintain some cordiality regarding the theme that the mormon church is a suck-bucket and that doing what one can to promote an end to its utility is a worthy goal. That would be nice. It might even be On Topic, n'cest pas? ¿Que les parece?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:42PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And sometimes
> I'm funny!


You are always funny. Sometimes intentionally so!

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Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:42PM

Take note, that car on the other side of the yellow line might have run-flat treads, coming straight toward ya but two and a half feet over to the left.

Tire light lit on dash, been that way for over a year and everything has been dandy, even fine.

As the run-flats age though they kill, causing more rollovers than the State Police have ever maybe seen before.

Without air inside they look fine, but aren't.

Yawns are not a problem necessarily, but everyone everyone everyone, right here right now has been terribly fooled before.

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:43PM

Interesting that ‘experts’ are ‘worried’ about how to ‘get’ people to ‘believe’ a “baseline reality”.

The experts should be worried that bullshit is freely shoveled out in a manner that renders it indistinguishable from truth. They should be concerned that the media in general has more interest in “clicks” rather than reliability.

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Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 05:52PM

csuprovograd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that ‘experts’ are ‘worried’
> about how to ‘get’ people to ‘believe’ a
> “baseline reality”.
>
> The experts should be worried that bullshit is
> freely shoveled out in a manner that renders it
> indistinguishable from truth. They should be
> concerned that the media in general has more
> interest in “clicks” rather than reliability.

● ● THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN VERIFIED ● ●

ohgoaheadandlaugh..

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 06:22PM

Religions used to be the primary purveyors of beliefs that were either independent of reality, or contrary to it. Kolob. Nephites and Lamanites. The proper vegetable oil, properly applied by authorized agents cures disease.

Astrology is still a multi-billion dollar industry. Anti-vaxxers are not new. Irationality seems to be worse lately. I don't think the tin foil hatters themselves are worse, but there appear to be more of them. Either that or they are more willing to be open about their irrationality.

Note that the intersection of the most religious and the New Irrationalist is pretty large. I think there is a relationship behind the decline of religious power and influence and this rise in denialism.

Incidentally, there are things in this world where elief, and acting on the belief, actually does make the belief true. If everyone thinks a bank will fail, and they withdraw their money, the bank does indeed fail. If they believe the bank will be fine, chances are good the bank will indeed be fine.

The problem is that there is an objective reality out there that does not depend on belief. Too many people have trouble, or refuse to recognize the distinction. They think if they declare something to be true, and absolutely insist on it, then it will be true. Evidence be damned.

Evidence, of course is the key. The organized amassing and evaluation of evidence is what science is all about. So the New Irrationlists really try to stifle science.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 07:23PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Incidentally, there are things in this world where
> elief, and acting on the belief, actually does
> make the belief true. If everyone thinks a bank
> will fail, and they withdraw their money, the bank
> does indeed fail. If they believe the bank will be
> fine, chances are good the bank will indeed be
> fine.
>

Incidentally, have you seen the price of Bitcoin lately?
It's in freefall, only straight up.
Why?
Because the US is printing money so fast it's giving it away for 0% interest.
How long is that sustainable?

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 08:02PM

The price has spiked in the last month. I see no reason to think federal spending is the cause. The price spiked well before the current covid relief bill passed, and this bill is about a third of what the covid relief bill of 8 months ago was, and bitcoin hardly budged then.

BTW, the government doesn't give money away at 0 percent. The Fed funds interest rate is completely separate from the covid relief bills. The fact that it is near zero percent means there is very little fear of inflation. Hard to reconcile that with a claim that bitcoin is spiking because of a fear of inflation. I'm thinking that's not the reason for the spike.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 09:53PM

I noticed the CEO and co-founder of MicroStrategy, Michael Saylor, has been making the rounds on podcasts (see Scott Galloway's The Prof G Show podcast on from 12/17/20) pushing Bitcoin pitches and using scare tactics about not using it.

I'm getting the the same vibes as when people try to push gold because the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 09:57PM

And the COVID and Bitcoin rationales are the same: inflation will drive down the purchasing power of the dollar and drive up the value of commodities like gold. The only problem with the pitch is that there is next to zero inflation and the bigger danger is disinflation/deflation, which would hurt alternatives and strengthen fiat currencies.

In answer to SC's question about how long this situation of near-zero Fed Funds Rates can continue, it has lasted decades (so far) in Japan and could in the US as well.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 10:02PM

“Reality. What a concept!” - Robin Williams

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 10:21PM

Reality is a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs
-Lily Tomlin

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: December 30, 2020 10:22PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I *love* her!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 06, 2021 11:20AM

So true. Reality from a religious perspective often is a drug.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 12:00PM

Can't accept the opposite view?

Don't want to think?

Don't want to examine contrary evidence?

That makes it easy to believe in lies.

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Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 12:25PM

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't accept the opposite view?
>
> Don't want to think?
>
> Don't want to examine contrary evidence?
>
> That makes it easy to believe in lies.

Y'tellin me, headache-ville choo-choo on it's way, nonstop and straight through pain-town!

WHOOOO... WHOOOO... WHOOT! AllAboard..

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Posted by: Sillymoeful ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 10:54PM

In retrospect, we all used to be victims of lies and half-lies fed by the Mormon church. Other religions and Christian denominations are no different. Believing that American Indians are Israelites or that the snake spoke to humans, or that a prophet went to heaven on a winged horse is no better than believing that the earth is flat or the sun moves around the earth. What I am trying to say here is that our susceptibility to lies is largely attributable to religions that keep us from thinking critically.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 04, 2021 01:21AM

Tell Them The Truth
Even if it hurts,
Even if it's ugly,
Even if it gets in the way,
Even if you don't want to!

Truth isn't necessarily good for business, politics, or religion.

Honesty has gone out the window, especially lately... only because the doors were shut.

Good luck experts.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 06, 2021 11:38AM

Current Americans are "sitting ducks". There will be no Beth to save them.

Easy pickings for the likes of the Chinese. The Chinese aren't pulling ahead. We are lagging behind because of belief in conspiracy theories combined with the arrogance of our assumed superiority. In some regards we are now carrying the litter that carries Chinese power.

The Chinese all wore masks and they are fine now. Claiming health protections were a violation of rights was not an option there. (No I am not saying I favor communism. But I don't favor what is happening in America either trampling their own democracy.) I work on a daily basis with a U.S. company that is in China now on a new project and they are not having covid issues.

Meanwhile here in SoCal Super Spreader events and the maskless continue even as the health care workers face exhaustion, no oxygen, no hospital beds, and now Ambulance drivers have to decide who gets to go to the hospital and how doesn't. Not just Sophie's choice anymore, but Benny's choice, and Carlos's, and Scott's.

Reality is a useless misleading chameleon of a word.

As the joker said, you can't fix stupid. Apparently you can't fix arrogant and entitled either.

You can lead an American to a fact, but they are like BKP and the truth and Mormons. They will decide which facts get them what they want, reject the rest, and make up their "own facts."

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: January 06, 2021 11:09PM

Eh, there's no win in believing a baseline reality. No money, no power, no hookers and blow. Hence all recorded human history, and no doubt millennia before. For this forum, Horny Joe is Exhibit A.

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