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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 04:19PM

I find it odd that Utah County can't fill their appointments for the covid vaccine. An area in Northern Utah seems to be having the same problem.

I can't figure out why this is. It never seemed to be an anti-vaccine area when I lived in Orem, but I do not get this.

Anyone have any insight about this?

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 04:51PM

https://aeon.co/ideas/what-makes-people-distrust-science-surprisingly-not-politics
"Vaccine skepticism also had no relation to political ideology, but it was strongest among religious participants, . . ."

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5403049&itype=CMSID
"In neighboring Utah County, which includes the faith's flagship school, Brigham Young University, Mormons make up 84.7 percent of the population"

But look at the bright side.
Anti-vax is a godsend ;-) for folks wanting ready access to personal protection, so it's not all problem.
If no one is in line at the fine dining establishment, why, . . . your table is ready

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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: February 14, 2021 01:05PM

Dr. No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

“Source:
https://aeon.co/ideas/what-makes-people-distrust-science-surprisingly-not-politics
"Vaccine skepticism also had no relation to political ideology, but it was strongest among religious participants, . . ."

==I’m not sure if I understood what that article is trying to say.

In my experience, young earth creationism (YEC), voting conservative, being against abortion, being pro-death penalty and handing out harsh punishments, being homophobic, being anti-science goes hand in hand.

From what I had seen last time, 46 to 49% of united statians are YEC. It looks like about half of people vote for the republican party, so I would say that almost all YEC people vote for republicans.

These types of people tend to not accept evolution theory. The only form of evolution that they accept is adaptation (some genes are selected against. Those genes have always existed in the lifeform from day 1, made by the jewish god).
In other words, Adam and Eve were a mix race human: part caucasian, part asian, part natiev american, part african.
They refuse to acknowledge that positive mutations exist. They say that all mutations have a negative impact.

They also don’t accept anything that contradicts the Bible such as cosmology, radiometric dating methods, isotopic distribution of the elements, dendrochronology, plate tectonic theory, the Antarctic record, the Atlantic sea floor record, the fossil record.
They try to develop what they call as Creation Science which has been renamed to Intelligent Design in order to bypass policies set by the government.

A large portion thinks that the government are liars. Also anyone associated with the government, such as researchers can’t be trusted. They trust their god.
A very small segment of their population are flat earthers.
One guy told me that the majority are atheists. I’ve never met a flat earth atheist and he could not provide any sources. I can provide sources that show that somewhere around 100% are creationists/theists based on the jewish flavor of religions.

Hindus have an easier time accepting the long periods as measured through science (14.7 Gy for the universe, 200+ ky for accretion of hydrogen to occur and form a star, 4.7 Gy for the Sun).

~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: February 14, 2021 05:30PM

Interesting analysis Iceman, didn't even know such exist.

But yah, YEC definitely sounds as a whole to be among those prioritizing Belief, which tend to reject data (as data challenges/disturbs Belief) so would reject methods relying on the collection and analysis of data e.g. science.

And vaccination makes sense only from a science/data perspective, so will be of course rejected.

Probably a bunch of Venn diagrams, maybe the overlap was not sufficient or something for these researchers

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Posted by: iceman9090 ( )
Date: February 14, 2021 10:46PM

Dr. No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I would love to see some good statistics on these subjects. Venn diagrams, just a table, bar graphs, pie charts, whatever other format that exists.

Looks like I forgot to address the issue of vaccination.
My experience with them is very low. I have more experience with the homeopathic medicine believers (HMB).
My opinion:
I think some are YEC science deniers but there is probably a bunch of people who go with trusted sources. They hear the opinion of a family member and then they join them and spread it around. They care about their well being and the well being of their kids. They feel that the pharmaceutical companies are just interested in profits. They don’t want to fix you. They just want to sell you a product that needs to be renewed.

That was the sentiment that a bunch of homeopathic medicine believers (HMB) had. They all tell me that pharmaceutical companies don’t want to cure you. They want repeat customers. One story is that a certain cure for diabetes was shelved so that metformin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin
could be sold to people continuously.

A lot of them (HMB) give me the example of cancer. They (Big Pharma) don’t want to find a cure for cancer because they want repeat customers.

First off, doctors don’t call them cures. They call them treatments. In some case, there are multiple choices for treatments.

There is of course chemotherapy and radiotherapy. The doctor will tell you if you are treatable and what your chances are. I think HMBs want a guarantee.

This article talks about vaccine, trust, people from Ukraine and Russia living in Washington
Source:
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/19/18263688/measles-outbreak-2019-clark-county
=====================================
The CDC says 75% of recent measles cases are linked to tight-knit communities.

In Washington, the virus has predominantly hit Russian-speaking groups hailing mainly from Ukraine and Russia, according to a source close to the matter. These groups have the lowest rate of vaccination of any population in Washington, the state’s most recent data shows.

TRUST
While the reasons for vaccine skepticism may be different in each of these communities, the groups themselves have a lot in common. They’re cohesive and conservative. They appear to trust each other more than outsiders. They also speak the same languages and read or watch the same news. “We think these communities are more alike,” Messonnier added, and their insularity helps “outbreaks escalate.”

TRUST
“I went through the time of Chernobyl [the 1986 nuclear disaster],” she said. “There was a big explosion and the government didn’t tell people for over a week.” There, government was also synonymous with medicine since the state delivered health care. And she thinks her peers have had a tough time disentangling the two in America.

TRUST
But there’s another factor at play. “[It’s] an issue of tribalism. The community of Slavic people are close-knit — they know each other personally and there’s a strong sense of cultural identity,” he said. “The downside is that very often, people coming from outside of the culture or subculture, especially when they’re promoting values outside the traditional values and norms, can be viewed with suspicion.”

TRUST
“Moms are more inclined to trust each other rather than a random nurse they don’t know,” he added. So if other moms say vaccines are dangerous, whatever a public health official argues about the science might not hold much weight.

=====================================


~~~~iceman9090

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 05:07PM

A lot of anti-vaxers in UT County (a lot of anti-maskers too).

Utah's vaccine "program" is a convoluted mess. Each county is doing their own thing and most cities within those counties are each doing something different. Our State government can't figure out who needs what where. They had 9 months to come out with a decent vaccine rollout plan. They failed.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 05:56PM

Sad. I got my vaccination, for free, in Culver City (in L.A. county)

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 06:31PM

It's probably because lots of over 70 year olds aren't tech savy, they don't know how to make the appointment. I had to help my parents navigate the world wide web.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 07:10PM

Checking in from New Mexico, where we are anticipating a few days of Arctic weather.

I saw my primary care provider a couple of days ago for another issue. She asked if I had gotten my COVID vaccinations yet. I explained that while I am 73 and have Stage 4 kidney failure, I was not in a first priority group. She has known me for long enough to know that what I said was true.

She told me to make an appointment with her nurse for next week for round 1 of the vaccines. Bless her heart.

We have been living like hermits for the last year, so I really have not been too worried, but now that the vaccines are here, I am grateful to have my turn.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 14, 2021 01:05AM

Good news Catnip. I am happy to hear this! Hubby may be able to get on the list in about three weeks. It will be a long time for me. We have been staying in too. We get everything delivered one way or another. Me being able to change my sleep cycle has really helped. I can only take so much of that old man! Cold here too. We had a big ice storm yesterday. Around 1.5" of strange ice crystals then a couple of inches of snow over that. Power up and down so we are recharging everything and keeping our flashlights handy!

I hope everything goes well with your shot :)

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 09:54PM

The vaccination rollout was a bit of a confused mess. It was pretty difficult getting a slot for the first three weeks, but in the last week or so, everyone I know who is over 70 and was looking for a shot managed to get one. I think the initial rush for the over-70 crowd in Utah may be dying down. I expect within the next couple weeks the eligibility limit will drop to 65, which will cause another rush.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 13, 2021 10:00PM

Looks like the J&J vaccine will be approved soon, which is a one-shot vaccine. Novamax may be approved in a month or so.

I get the feeling that the US will be swimming in vaccines by late April and the public health agencies will be begging people to get vaccinated ASAP.

As a suitably old coot, I should be good to go on a road trip in about 3 weeks. Looks like we will get plenty of snow by then to make driving interesting. :)

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Posted by: Old Al ( )
Date: February 15, 2021 03:52AM

I suspect most LDS are pro-vaccine. As for myself I get a yearly flu shot and am up-to-date on all my shots. I am now eligible for the Covid vaccine due to my advanced age. It is essentially an experimental vaccine the Trump Administration rushed through under a medical emergency. It would not be approved if the proclaimed medical emergency was ended. So we are just guinea pigs for Trump’s rushed vaccine. I’ll wait another year. Everyone I know my age who has tested positive foe Covid has recovered. Some of them were extremely ill. I know the disease can be serious, but the odds are in my favor without the vaccine for now.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 15, 2021 09:38AM

I believe that your thinking is sound. But I'd like to raise a point: every year the medical boffins involved with "The Flu" get together to decide what strains of the flu will surge in 'x' number of months, usually associated with winter in the northern hemisphere.

I'm assuming that they get together at some resort, where they can play in the sun and surf. But they do get around to accomplishing their goals and the decision gets made regarding what strains the next flu vaccination will attempt to discourage.

I think they've been doing this for a number of years. So in a sense, the Covid-19 flu shot is just a ramped-up version of this now common procedure. And just as with the 'regular' influenzas, they hope that they've guessed right on whatever it is they guess about.

So in other words, the process is not 'experimental', it's the guesswork going into the process that is experimental. And they could possibly never get it exactly right.

As soon as I hear someone outside calling out, "Get yer flu shot; get your Covid-19 flu shot... I've got the flu shot; get yer flu shots now..." I'll step lively and getter done.

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Posted by: Old Al ( )
Date: February 15, 2021 11:42AM

This experimental biological agent is much different than a traditional vaccine. The people I know who have had it had over the top reactions to it, especially after the 2nd shot. Lymph node problems have been noticed in 16% of those receiving it so Intermountain Health is telling women not to get mammograms after the shot. It has not been well vetted no matter what the CDC and Big Pharma want to sell us.

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