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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 12:43AM

Pearson: Only about 15% of people said polygamy was just fine, and that they trusted God and it would all be worked out in heaven. The other 85% gave their personal stories of extreme pain and difficulty around those issues.

This may be the most egregious “women’s issue” that is still floating out there with no one addressing it. This can’t continue, because it’s just too damaging.

https://religionnews.com/2016/07/20/mormon-women-fear-eternal-polygamy-study-shows/?

When I was Mormon, I had a warped view of polygamy. I thought it was kind of funny, something I could use to tease my wife about the fact that in the next life, I'd have a whole harem of women and she'd be just one of my many wives, just like Joseph and Brigham were doing now that they were Gods.
It wasnt a big deal to me.
But it was a big deal to my wife.
She hated the idea of it and never bought it.
She just refused to believe it.
So once I left due to racism concerns, then I had to really take her concerns seriously and started reading everything I could about the issue to resolve it in my mind.
Come to find out the only way to resolve it for me was to conclude Joseph's Myth was just a fraud he made up to justify raping his follower's teenage daughters and wives.
I know other Mormons who just dismiss it as 'that's just what they did back in those days.'
No. No it's not.
They NEVER 'married' other men's wives.
There was never a law that allowed that.
Not even in Mormon law.
So they just have a different interpretation than me.
I told this to my Bishop and the Area Authority who interviewed me on my way out the door. The so-called "Authority" said to me,
"Polygamy has always been an anathema to Mormon women."
I said to him, "Why just women? If it's wrong, it's wrong. What difference does it make what sex organs you have? It's kind of like saying, "I don't know how black people can belong to such a racist, white supemacist CULT?!"
If it's wrong, it's wrong.
No matter what color your skin is.
Your skin color or your sex doesn't affect what's right and what's wrong.
Truth is independent of sex or skin color.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 01:17AM

I agree with you.

(For those who don't know: I have never been Mormon.)

A few decades ago, Israel had to deal with what was, at that moment in Israeli history, a serious polygamy problem. New immigrants to Israel were coming from [mostly] Arab lands (where polygamy is legal) and were entering Israel with multiple wives (as well as the children of those marriages, of course).

The decision which was finally accepted by all (religious authorities, as well as government authorities) was: New male immigrants to Israel can [this is still true, so far as I know] enter Israel with however many wives they already have...but no "new" wives will be allowed (unless all previous wives have died, or divorces have taken place).

I have no idea what any of those concerned think about the status of those plural wives in the olam ha-bah (the "world after this one"....or "heaven," more or less, in Christian terms).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2021 03:32PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: May 07, 2021 08:35PM

When mormon women think about death they spend little time contemplating that they will be making babies....forever. Not only that but being a mother taking care of them...forever.
Meanwhile her hubby is banging women round Robin style...forever.

Peace in death appeals to me much more. Eternal rest from all the crap in the world mixed in with happy times.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 09:14AM

What’s so hard to understand about an angel with a flaming sword?

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 12:34PM

I think Rusty will (has) bring it back to attract converts.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 01:31PM

Certainly, the attraction for men is quite evident; but there's an almost gut-instinct reaction that makes you suppose that women would not be attracted to polygamy.  But upon reflection . . .

Which is better, being a sex slave to sex traffickers or being a plural wife?

Or being, through no fault of your own, an uneducated female who is, or is about to be homeless, or living in conditions that would make being a plural wife in a clean, safe environment a step up?

Our hip, very with-it, City Slicker way of life doesn't seem to hold anything against "Swingers", so elective polygamy probably wouldn't ruffle judicial, much less societal feathers.


Elder Penis: Why yes, polygamy is
   practiced by the church. We call
   it the New and Everlasting Boner.
   It used to be you had to be a
   member for a year and have gone
   thru the temple first before you
   could enter into this covenant,
   but now we allow free samples to
   those who are seriously seeking
   answers. I could have the Sister
   Missionaries visit you over the
   weekend if you're interested?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 02:49PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Truth is independent of sex or skin color.


One of the dictionary descriptions of truth is "A fact or believe that is accepted as true, as in 'the emergence of scientific truth.'"

So I think a very defensible position can be staked out that truth can be dependent on one's sex and/or skin color, or economic status, size, and shape, writing ability, age, location, education and maybe even morals, but I don't have any, so...

I get that you are pretty much a "my way or the highway" thinker, but I think (hope?) that your type is not in the ascendancy here...or anywhere, other than in cults.

Yeah, you know, based on your behavior here, a case could be made that you are in a cult!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 04:49PM

A cult in which members are only permitted laptops with no return key.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 04:15AM

It’s more like a laptop that’s had its keycaps all scrambled. You rewire your brain to make it work.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 04:52PM

Eternal ? Maybe they will get time off for good behavior.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 05:53PM

I would prefer to stay with my gay husband and share him with other men than to ever share a husband with other women. I "suppose" it shouldn't matter, but it does. I would NOT continue to be in an intimate relationship with my husband if he was having sex with other males.

My sister has said all along that she would never share her husband and she'd prefer to go to another kingdom. I teased him once about me being another wife after my husband left and he seriously shook his head back and forth and said, "No, she says absolutely not." I laughed pretty hard over that one.

I'd prefer to be alone. Any day. I'd rather be a ministering angel, but I'm working on making it to the telestial kingdom and maybe not hell. I've already been to hell.

Not like my parents had the perfect marriage as they didn't, but my dad would never agree to polygamy. My mother, it goes without saying. There are some marriages where I think that the believing wife has to be hoping marriages aren't for time and all eternity!!!

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 06:50PM

I can see this being a source of unhappiness for women. The penis-hood holders joking around about it is pretty boorish, but I can see it (my TBM brother jokes around about whether he'll call his TBM wife from the grave, and I can imagine that's stressful too).

Fortunately, it's all made up baloney, so not really a problem, but for those who believe, it probably is.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 09:46PM

That’s the wired thing my wife was TBM as it gets, she slapped me once in front of her Mom and adult Brother for suggesting we see Schindler's List” lol but she flat out refused to believe in polygamy and swore she’d never share me with another woman, in this or the next life.
I joked that it didnt matter what she believed, God would decide.
She told me that the first wife can always say No.
like Emma was even given a vote on whether or not Joseph “married” (cuckolded) his followers by marrying their wives?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 04:16PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> she slapped me once in front of her Mom and
> adult Brother for suggesting we see Schindler's
> List” lol


I wouldn't "lol" about abuse.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 06:30PM

I wouldn’t call a slap in the face ‘abuse’ but I only lol’d because of how absurd and ridiculous it was to slap somebody for suggesting we go see a good movie, that happens to be rated R.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 08:36PM

What does the Tao say about face slapping?

LOL & TAO may be the farthest apart two three-letter words can get.

I have no idea why that thought hit me... in the face.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 08:37PM

*Poof*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2021 08:40PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 04, 2021 05:14PM

"I wouldn’t call a slap in the face ‘abuse’"

It is.

"Should you ever find yourself slapping or getting slapped by a partner — even just once — your relationship is in major trouble, and possibly beyond repair."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201207/how-define-physical-abuse-in-relationships-slap-push

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 09:42PM

I watch another show that comes on the same channel as Sister Wives so I watch it once in a while when I am too lazy to go looking for something else. Kody the "husband" is making it very clear that he is tired of the life. He says things blaming it on the women lol. How it doesn't work because THEY are not happy sharing him. Frankly, I don't think he has ever taken responsibility for anything ever. He has had very little to do with wife #1 for YEARS. Wife #2 is quite emotionally dependent on him and he seems to resent it. She is also the only one that wants them to all live together again. Wife #3 sounds like she is pretty much done with the whole thing and wants to move back to Utah. Wife #4 is obviously the only one he gives a hoot in hell about and she wants MORE kids. Hard to say if that is the draw, he is an odd little man.

So here is a man who is now against polygamy. Not because he thinks it is wrong but it isn't fun anymore and even worse, it is inconvenient.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 10:13PM

And you thought I was kidding about ghawd revealing to me that in the Celestial Kingdom, the only people who have a guy's cell number are Elohim, Jesus, and the other three guys in his golf group.

When he calls (summons) a wife, all she sees on her screen is "Yo, baby, it's me!"

Yeah, polygamy, 1840s style!!

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 10:17PM

I wonder how many LDS women know about celestial polygamy, percentage-wise.

Are two deceased persons ever sealed (married) by proxy, posthumously?

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 10:33PM

>Are two deceased persons ever sealed (married) by proxy, posthumously?

How about Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun?

https://www.docdroid.net/hGprU3i/adolf-hitler-pdf

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 10:59PM

Christ said that in Heaven, there would be no giving or taking in marriage, but we would be as angels. That's Heaven. I guess this sealing applies to Hell?

A question: LDS teaches there is no Hell, but "outer darkness," reserved for LDS apostates, those who have rejected the "Restored Gospel," and the most heinous of malefactors and sinners. If we consider Hitler to be among this group--why was he baptized and sealed? I would conclude: If Hitler can avoid outer darkness,* then anybody can.

(I note the disclaimer on the form.)

A less-than-serious note: It's nice to see Hitler referenced on this board without invoking Godwin's Rule!

Is it properly rendered "Outer Darkness" upper case? or lower case?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 02, 2021 11:50PM

> Christ said that in Heaven,
> there would be no giving or
> taking in marriage...


The mormon way around that scripture is to point at the temples and the millennium. They are trying hard to do all the 'work for the dead' that they can, using the meager record that exists right now.

The main purpose of the 1,000-year reign of terrorist Jesus here on earth is for all the marrying and sealing and other ordinances to be taken care of, when they'll be able to Secure ID everyone, what with all the heavenly help that will be available. All the marrying that needs to be done, will be done here on earth, as it isn't in heaven...

So when the millennium terrorist activity is completed, all the loose ends will be secured and all the ghawds will fall in line and march to glory, like so many stripling warriors, with their camp-follower wives falling in behind them, pulling handcarts full of earthly mementos. Or Coke & Mentos...

Be sure to have a camera handy!

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 03:26AM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are two deceased persons ever sealed (married) by
> proxy, posthumously?

There used to be a link to doc’s showing that Albert Einstein had been sealed to both his wife and his ex-wife, but I can’t find it now (pretty sure I’ve seen it both here and on Facebook).

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 02:15PM


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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 03:30PM

And I thank you [!] and President Stinky.

I remain befuddled that they extend (what they believe to be) the grace of posthumous rites to Hitler and Braun. The irony of Einstein is their METAphysical of the usurpation of the great physicist.

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Posted by: pettigrew ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 05:23AM

In a discussion about the prospect of polygamy in the afterlife my spouse said "Plural Marriage in the afterlife will be a choice...and you will be choosing not to." We both laughed.

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Posted by: moehoward ( )
Date: May 03, 2021 08:22PM

I had a friend from college whose wife died of cancer while she very young. He remarried years later and I was chit chatting with his wife when she said very seriously, "I'm going to have to share my husband with Gail after we die". I was still in my smart ass stage and replied, you know, we are talking about eternity. Why don't you take turns 10,000 years at a time? That didn't sit too well.

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Posted by: toto ( )
Date: May 06, 2021 10:25PM

This is one of the reasons I left the Morg. The thought of sharing my then-husband with other women was not my idea of heaven.

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Posted by: Nuggett ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 12:26AM

As a child I remember thinking how horribly screwed up it must be to be a woman in the church, (polygamy, no women in authority positions, etc etc) that most of them must be atheists that go along with it with the thought that it will inflate their husbands ego so he will be more successful at his career so they will make more money and have a larger house.

I can't be the only one that thought this can I?

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 05:04PM

Last time I checked MORmON men were more likely than women to say they supported giving women the Priesthood, but more of them were dropping like flies and the majority of Mormon women supported not giving women the priesthood.
Women buy into the system that oppresses their rights because the patriarchy works just fine for them, gets them their Molly MORmON housewife status.
I have Mormon friends like that, kept wife is perfectly happy maintaining the status quo, and well defined gender rolls, as long as she doesn’t have to enter the workforce, ever.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 05:06PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Women buy into the system that oppresses their
> rights because the patriarchy works just fine for
> them

Not true.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 05:50PM

Kept Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not true.


educated women disagree with you.

https://religionnews.com/2015/12/15/mormon-women-and-priesthood-5-depressing-new-survey-findings/?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 06:29PM

Unlike the lovely Gladys, I don't have a dog, nor am I a dog, in this fight. I HAVE the priesthood! Oh, yeah, baby!!!

Anent the survey, and The Cat's cackling that women don't want the priesthood (and who can blame them?), there is the second finding Jana mentions in the article, that "...most of those opposed would change their mind if the prophet announced that women should be ordained."

So it is a sustainable position to take that the women who say women shouldn't get the priesthood are simply supporting ghawd, who has told them, "You can't touch this!"

But, according to the findings, if ghawd announces a change, "...most of those opposed would change their mind..."

Which does not at all support The Cat's contention that,

> Women buy into the system that
> oppresses their rights because
> the patriarchy works just fine
> for them

If that were true, Jana would not be making that second point.

I think The Cat has a lower than Neanderthal opinion of the female of our species; perhaps too many slaps?

But again, I have the Priesthood, thus I rule ... and Saucie says I am so cute when I do.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 06:37PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kept Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

"Kept wife."

There you go again, showing that despite your protestations of edgy progressivism you're nothing more than a two bit misogynist.


------------
> educated women disagree with you.

Really? Then what of this:

"Also more likely to support women’s leadership: more affluent, better educated Latter-day Saints. Basically, the higher your education level, the more likely you are to want women’s ordination."

That says that the more educated women are, the more they want women to have leadership positions--precisely the opposite of what you just claimed. Did you fail to read the article or just fail to understand it?


--------------
How could someone who cannot read a simple news article possibly comprehend Einstein, Laozi, Epicurus, Hawking, or even Curious George?


Can you help me out here, self-proclaimed genius?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2021 06:50PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 10, 2021 11:33PM

Edit: I don't think my spouse would mind being called a "kept wife" -- but I'm not asking her! I'm pretty sure calling her a "kept woman" would send me to the couch (and not the psychiatrist's couch!).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2021 11:52PM by caffiend.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 11, 2021 01:34PM

People can say, "Hey man" and it is no problem. Don't try it with "Hey Woman" and definitely not followed by a request for something. Funny how words aren't as black and white as we like to think they are.

Too bad humans have a hard time creating harmonious hierarchies and tend towards cultural conditioning to facilitate abuse.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: May 11, 2021 03:20PM

My DH made an even more egregious mistake. He addressed his ex as “Hey Old Woman!”

Didn’t go well.

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