……it!

Post Traumatic Slavery Syndrome training is going to be required where I work.

https://www.amazon.com/Post-Traumatic-Slave-Syndrome-Americas/dp/0985217278/ref=nodl_

I can’t say where I work, but it is a large organization, run by a VERY WOKE Boss, who is committed to making our entire organization “Anti-racist”. My manager said she needed to ask everybody she manages where they are at in their journey to become anti-racist. I told her, I am 100% Anti-Racist, but I am also an old school progressive. I actually believe in MLK’s dream of color blindness and I am not giving up on that dream until something better comes along and so far, I have yet to hear a better dream we should strive to realize.

My manager, said, “WTF?!?!” When she saw this POst Traumatic Slave Syndrome Book and class, we have to read and attend.

she sent me this criticism of PTSlaveD by Ibrahm X Kendi

https://www.aaihs.org/post-traumatic-slave-syndrome-is-a-racist-idea/

My frigging head is spinning!

I spend all day in Diversity Equity and Inclusion training and what’s really cool is they are big group sessions with white people and people of color and they teach white people to stick up for People of Color when we see them being victimized by micro-aggressions, but this one guy named Tyrone says,

”I’m a full grown man! I can take care of myself! I Don’t need to be treated like a child.”

I want to cross stitch that, frame it and put it in my office wall!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 12:24PM by schrodingerscat.

cross stitch this under "things that did not happen" ~

Haaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa!! Too funny!!

As an ancestor of slave owners, I believe I am afflicted with "Post Traumatic Slave OWNER Syndrome". I wonder if there are some government disability $$$'s I can tap into to help me get over the shame I live with each day. And since I never chose to be a relative of a slave owner, can I get some sort of reparations? PTSOS LIVES MATTER!! Would it be O.K. to start looting?

Out of curiosity, in your Diversity Equity and Inclusion training, is it all one big "pile on whitey" guilt fest, or does it go both ways? Is there a section where "people of color" are instructed on how NOT to judge others by the color of their skin and to teach their children the same?

Jaxson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Actually I think that you are a descendent of not an ancestor of slave owners
Haaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa!! Too funny!!
>
> As an ancestor of slave owners, I believe I am
> afflicted with "Post Traumatic Slave OWNER
> Syndrome". I wonder if there are some government
> disability $$$'s I can tap into to help me get
> over the shame I live with each day. And since I
> never chose to be a relative of a slave owner, can
> I get some sort of reparations? PTSOS LIVES
> MATTER!! Would it be O.K. to start looting?
>
> Out of curiosity, in your Diversity Equity and
> Inclusion training, is it all one big "pile on
> whitey" guilt fest, or does it go both ways? Is
> there a section where "people of color" are
> instructed on how NOT to judge others by the color
> of their skin and to teach their children the
> same?

Looks like an interesting book, 4.9 out of 5 stars. I may buy a copy.

Who knows, maybe you could learn something from this training?

it cannot be remedied through the intellect.


It is primarily fear ("lizard-brain") based.

What does your made up story to go on a political rant have to do with recovery from Mormonism?

Why would I make up that story?
Just to go on a ‘political rant’?
When there’s no ‘rant’?

Most of shrodinger's posts are rants about the injustices of racism. Like none of us understand the concepts and agree with him and so we need our daily reminders just to make him feel better. I don't know why he needs to constantly write about the same things. It does get old.

I don’t know why ExMos feel such a need to be such assholes to fellow ExMos.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don’t know why ExMos feel such a need to be
> such assholes to fellow ExMos.

Right? Why would people be rude to you when you are so unfailingly polite to them.

I mean, it's not as if you would write that there is "sure, unadulterated bullsh!t oozing out of your mouth" to a fellow poster!

A-holes are as A-holes do.

Northern_lights Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does your made up story to go on a political
> rant have to do with recovery from Mormonism?
===============================

And legit.

Offer one tack:

Religion(s) and racism both originate from the limbic ("lizard-brain")
- that's why racism is a close cousin. Consider Mormonism specifically
- that's why religion cannot be dispassionately discussed
- that's why marrying outside the faith causes such heartburn (for the truly devoted)
- that's why so many senseless wars over gods
- that's why conversion and conviction are emotional, not intellectual, experiences

It is also why the religiously oriented are inclined to bear such antipathy and distrust against higher education and original thought.
Consider Galileo, consider Darwin

I'm tired of Post Traumatic Syndrome. All of us experience it in some form.

I've been called a Big-Nose-Bagel-Eating Jew. And not just by my twin sister.

How 'bout we look at FUTURE TRAUMA SYNDROME, like childhood cancer and auto safety.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 06:14PM by kathleen.

It amazes me that so many people see slavery as one thing. Whites owning Blacks.

They overlook the Native Americans that were slaves.

They overlook the whites that were slaves in Africa, particularly the Barbary Coast. (The shores of Tripoli)

They overlook indentured servitude, force apprenticeships and press gangs.

They overlook modern human trafficking.

They overlook that racism goes beyond color vs white.

Any white folks travel extensively in central or south america can experience racism.

But if I were to say that at work I'd have to repeat sensitivity training.

I am not disputing the main point you are making here, but you are (in effect) describing a snapshot in time--a chronological "moment" which often cannot be foreseen before it happens, and often is not recognized for what it is until long after the "snapshot" becomes time passed.

Around here, I frequently remark on how the life we live NOW could not have been predicted by anyone as I was growing up (by my maternal family members, I was seriously called "crazy" (as in: insane) for saying that SOMEDAY life would be as it actually is right now, in 2021).

If I could somehow speak to my Aunt Tomi (my Mom's sister), my Mom's and my aunt's parents, or a whole lot of maternal cousins and aunts and uncles, and describe life now and back to (let's say) since the end of WWII, none of the people I would be speaking to would believe me--they would think I was fantastically inventing a visibly "black" President of the United States, and a black/South Asian FEMALE Vice President of the United States, and non-segregated schools (sort of "throughout" the USA, more or less), and a visibly Native American U.S. Secretary of the Interior (who is also a female).

But I am not making these things up. These are American facts, and no matter how far we still have to go in specific areas, these facts are part of the American present and of American history.

From my standpoint, given the life I have lived myself, it seems to me like we're mostly doing cleanup now. I know many people will disagree with this and be offended because there is still so much to do, but I know well what it was like when I was little, and in many ways, that seems a substantial way back as I look to the "bad old days."

I am not minimizing the work still to be done (we, as a people, do still have a ways to go before we completely exemplify the tenets of the founding documents), but I am acutely aware--virtually every day of my life--how much positive and important ground we have covered since I was little, and Shirley Temple was not allowed to invite her dancing partner (Bill "Bojangles" Robinson) to her birthday party sometime around 1935. (The two made Hollywood, and American, history as the first interracial couple to dance onscreen.)

One of the things I most appreciate about our problems is that we're always working on them.

And even when we trip, we almost always get up, dust ourselves off, and try again.

Various snapshots in time might be really awful, but the deep and serious progress we continue to make is often pretty darn good--at least, from the vantage point of several decades.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 09:48PM by Tevai.

Heartless, I generally like your comments but this one is unsettling. You elide the distinctions between many different experiences in order to claim that those distinctions are meaningless, which is false.


--------------
> It amazes me that so many people see slavery as
> one thing. Whites owning Blacks.

It depends on the sort of slavery, doesn't it? Greek slavery and Barbary Coast slavery and sex trafficking are different fundamentally different phenomena, and African American slavery--chattel slavery--is historically unique. So yes, in the United States it was indeed whites owning blacks.


------------------
> They overlook the Native Americans that were
> slaves.

Yes. But that slavery was focused on individuals and not on their spouses or progeny and there were limits to both how such slaves should be treated and how long their condition would persist. And it occurred in tribal lands outside of US jurisdiction.


-----------------
> They overlook the whites that were slaves in
> Africa, particularly the Barbary Coast. (The
> shores of Tripoli)

Same thing. Those slaves were generally kept for years or decades and they were were not kept as isolated groups whose descendants were born as slaves. You couldn't go to Ottoman Africa, see a white person, and say, "look Ma, there's a slave."


-----------------
> They overlook indentured servitude, force
> apprenticeships and press gangs.

Even these categories are incomparable. Indentured servitude was for a period of time, subject to legal and social rules, and did not apply to future generations. "Forced" apprenticeships means exactly what? Apprenticeships were entered into voluntarily and for a specific period of time; and they too were limited to oneself and subject to restrictions. Press gangs: prison sentences? Is it your opinion that prisoners convicted in courts and sentenced to specific terms are comparable either to voluntary apprenticeships or multi-generational, ethnically-based slavery?


------------------
> They overlook modern human trafficking.

You're kidding, I hope. African slaves were purchased in perpetuity; many of them were "bred" to produce better farm workers. The owners could and did sell off spouses and children, and had sexual rights in perpetuity over the humans they bought and their descendants. That's why nearly all descendants of African American slaves have some white ancestry.

Modern sex trafficking does not last for generations; it does not involve forced marriage or interbreeding to produce "better" progeny who are also trafficked. And it is illegal virtually everywhere whereas what happened to black Americans was not only recognized but enforced by law.


-----------------
> They overlook that racism goes beyond color vs
> white.

Are you claiming now that racism is slavery? Because you just slid from the latter to the former, and the elision is as ridiculous as it is transparent.


-----------------
> Any white folks travel extensively in central or
> south america can experience racism.

Yes, everyone has likely experienced racism. What does that have to do with slavery? Do you think your experiences with racism in Latin American made you and your descendants slaves?

The point is that each of your examples is fundamentally different from the chattels slavery that existed in the United States for centuries. Chattels are things over which people have complete ownership and can use or dispose of at will. That is what black Americans experienced: they were purchased permanently, could be bought, sold, fucked, bred, beaten, and even killed with no repercussions. Their children were likewise chattels who could be bought, sold, fucked, bred, beaten and killed at the whim of the owner. And it was all based on skin color: a black American walking down the street in 1850 Charleston was ASSUMED to be a slave and treated as such.

Can you name one other form of slavery in which that was the case--a race-based system that was permanent and hereditary and treated humans as chattels?


----------------
> But if I were to say that at work I'd have to
> repeat sensitivity training.

That is one of many reasons why discretion may be the better policy.

Does everyone have the same experience as a Mormon?

Does everyone have the same experience as an ex-Mormon?

I've tried to tell non-Mormons who know nothing about Mormonism about all the "weird" stuff -- Kolob, "spirit babies," the temple, the "War In Heaven," "garments" (magic underwear), polygamy, racism as part of Mormon doctrine and theology, the baby voice, etc., etc., etc.

Most of them don't believe me.
It sounds so bizarre that it doesn't seem credible.


The same goes for racism and racist triggers.


Until the advent of mobile phones with video recording capability, many people simply couldn't or wouldn't believe their nice, friendly neighbourhood policeman could be someone who could do horrible things to black or Latinx people (Strangely enough, many Nazi SS war criminals were also regarded as good, responsible family men and pillars of society).

But then they did see -- and they found out the truth.
They are also finding out that their parents, teachers, pastors and elders lied to them about how people of colour were systematically mistreated and discriminated against -- just as in Mormonism.

How do you process this?

Do you believe it and try to make up for the past?

Or do you deny it and try to pretend that "it's just all lies" -- just as you might have done when you were first told the truth about Mormonism?


How do you deal with the trauma?

There are some African-Americans who have been so traumatized by their negative experiences that they find it easier to live in a predominately "black" world where they don't face constant microaggressions and criticism. Others, either out of necessity or happenstance, have learned how to navigate and operate in a predominantly white world (like corporate America for example).

There are also class differences. Wealthy, upper, and middle-class African Americans experience racism, but not to the same extent as their less well off cousins.


It's complex, there's no single viewpoint, but simply reading about racism and your (racist) actions that you might not even think about isn't going to hurt you.

It might open your eyes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 09:20PM by anybody.

Well said,anybody :)

Is this like pre-pubescent boys making you take a class on human sexuality?

Congratulations. You used most of the radical right wing extremist white supremacist buzz words.

My employer pays me the same whether I'm working hard or sitting in an easy training class. So I don't get upset about the easy money, when it's offered.

If you are required to write a reflection or summation after your training, you can always fall back on, "The author stated that..." or "The trainer stated that...". That's what I do when I disagree with things that are said during trainings. I am required to demonstrate knowledge of the material. I am not required to agree with it.

It seems to me that there are lots of anti-discrimination laws in place for workplaces, and any medium to large size employer will have trainings for their employees in the application of these laws. Beyond that, and beyond insisting that workers treat each other in a civil manner, I'm not sure there is a whole lot that can be done.

I've seen immigrants who've endured really horrendous treatment in their home countries. Yet for the most part they come here and do quite well. Usually there is a mother and father at home. They both work. They do a good job of raising their kids, who are respectful and willing to follow direction. They value school. They stay away from drugs.

The formula for success in America hasn't changed. If you generally follow this formula, you can do well here. On the other hand, if you have children before you are ready, blow off school, neglect your kids, do drugs, spend what little money you have recklessly, and let the street raise your kids, you have a recipe for disaster. I've seen it over and over again, and I don't have a solution for it. I don't think anyone does.

Is it possible to force-deconvert any TBM by force-feeding them information on church-truefarceness?

Of course not.
Because it is not an information-lack problem.
It is a belief/conviction problem.
(But is does make us feel reassured, like we've actually accomplished something useful)

So, force-feeding a TBM results in only resentment and retreats the TBM deeper into Mormondom.

Racism is in the same dynamic.

It’s like Linus and his security blanket. I didn’t investigate “anti” claims until I decided I didn’t need the blanket.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s like Linus and his security blanket. I
> didn’t investigate “anti” claims until I
> decided I didn’t need the blanket.
===============================

because it is fear-based.
It's only made worse through force-feeding rightthink.

Re-education crusades are doomed to failure

I'm sure their attempts to 'indoctrinate' you will have no more success than you've had here.

When you call racism education racism then your moral compass is non-existent.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> your
> moral compass is non-existent.
===============================

Trashed mine long ago
Now every which way I turn, is South :-D

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My frigging head is spinning!
=======================

Yeah, I don't think it's the content. Probably in agreement.
I think you don't like the force-feeding part.
There's a difference


I like chocolate-chip cookies too, but . . .

Try putting a finger in each ear and sing 'la, la, la', until the opposition gives up. Do so with a smile on your face.

Good luck.

pollythinks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try putting a finger in each ear and sing 'la, la,
> la', until the opposition gives up. Do so with a
> smile on your face.
>
> Good luck.
Like my manager (accountabilibuddy) says,”I am just an observer here.” Yeah, well, be that as it may…After 5 straight days of DEI training, my input is, we live in the 21st C, we mapped the human genome, which proved we were 99.9% genetically identical, meaning we are at most 0.1% genetically diverse, so why spend 5 days focusing on 1/10th of 1% of what makes us different from one another? Why not emphasize the fact we share 99.9% common ground, which is scientifically proven? Why does the science of our genetic discoveries about our differences not even come up in 5 days of talking about it?

You see, Kori, this is where you tie yourself in logical and moral knots.

The reason the virtual genetic identity of all humans isn't discussed is because while it is scientifically nonsensical, race is socially and politically very real. If you believe, as you have claimed many times in the past, that racism is systemic in the United States you must by definition agree that those social and political systems should be changed. In other words, there have to be advantages enacted to countervail the systemic disadvantages under which POC labor in order eventually to create an even playing field.

But when you or your family are harmed by the remedial actions, you retreat to the notion that since race is genetically non-existent we must not do anything to counteract its systemic political and socioeconomic influence. You are saying that the state should be colorblind when, in fact, you have already acknowledged that it is not. What you are now asserting is that institutions that were established to benefit white people should be ignored even as they continue to benefit that very group at the expense of everyone else.

The contradiction is evident in your latest roster of heroes as well. You applaud a man who dislikes racial affirmative action but wants to replace it with economically-based affirmative action. Why does he prefer the latter? Because, as he explicitly states, socioeconomic factors will pick up the hamstrung POC and poor whites that race alone does not. I personally think that makes sense--poor American kids need help that the progeny of rich educated people from the Caribbean do not--but you must surely recognize that by socioeconomic criteria you and your son would be restricted as surely as by race.

You have to decide. You either think racism is systemic and must be remedied through active policy changes or you think the polity is already colorblind and hence that structural change is unnecessary and probably harmful. But you cannot with any consistency say the system is broken and yet you and your loved ones deserve head start that system bestows upon you.

I've been very consistent.
I think we did away with Affirmative Action for good reasons, that guys like Coleman Hughes, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter talk about far more eloquently than I can, but it wasn't working. I actually believe in MLK's dream, that we should judge people according to the content of their character and not the color of their skin, and until a better dream comes along, I'm sticking with that belief. I don't really care if, like my Son says, "That's an old fashioned idea Dad."
Yeah well so are time and money, but they're the best 'old fashioned ideas' we've got, so I'm sticking with them.
I'm 100% Anti Racist.
Which means we should all quit spending 99.9% of our time on something that is at most, 0.1% of what makes us unique. And we should cherish that miniscule amount of genetic diversity, because without it, we'd all be dead from the first cold virus that killed one of us.
As far as policy goes, of course it needs to change.
Especially the number of black and brown people we lock up in prison, due to Nixon's 50yo drug war. That needs to end and we all need to quit being ok with it continuing until it does.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as policy goes, of course it needs to
> change.
> Especially the number of black and brown people we
> lock up in prison, due to Nixon's 50yo drug war.
> That needs to end and we all need to quit being ok
> with it continuing until it does.

Got it. You support all reforms of structural barriers to equality except those that, like your son's search for employment and your being subjected to sensitivity training, inconvenience you and your family.

All you have to do say your name is Jamal or LaKeisha whilst trying to find an apartment, buy a car or a house, or when looking for a job and you'll find out real quick :)

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got it. You support all reforms of structural
> barriers to equality except those that, like your
> son's search for employment and your being
> subjected to sensitivity training, inconvenience
> you and your family.

I, like MLK, support structural reforms that do not result racial discrimination.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, like MLK, support structural reforms that do
> not result racial discrimination.

You have nothing in common with King. You pick and choose between his words with no concern for context or consistency.

You have gone from trumpeting your commitment to racial equality to complaining about measures designed and necessary to overcome structural discrimination. What drove that transformation?

Your self-interest.

Well, he is part Native American . . .

Yes, but does he golf?

>> "I'm 100% Anti Racist.
Which means we should all quit spending 99.9% of our time on something......"

That's it in a nutshell...."I'm this, so everyone should be doing the same.

I'll take LW's sh!t over your shinola any day.

I noticed that you put a lot of stock into Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. I’ve learned from them also on Wright’s bloggingheads.tv.

But given your politics, or what I’ve gathered are your politics, or your general political and economic concerns, consider instead Adolph Reed Jr., who is an excellent scholar. Here’s a brief interview with him at JSTOR:

The Perils of Race Reductionism

https://daily.jstor.org/adolph-reed-jr-the-perils-of-race-reductionism/

Snippet:

“What can ultimately ensue is an ideal of society such that if 1% of the population controls 90% of the resources, as long as that 1% were apportioned in a way that more or less faithfully reflects the composition of different ascriptive groups within the population, then that society could be considered just. That is to say, if the 1% were [approximately] half women, 12% Black, 14% to 15% Hispanic, et cetera, it would be a just society, even though 90% of the people are getting the short end of the stick. That’s the logic of a neoliberal notion of social justice.”


Too many fall for this kind of neoliberal “woke washing”, to play on the idea of pink-washing, to the detriment of everybody.

Anyway, look into Adolph Reed. The interview is but a thumbnail. His scholarship and analysis are thorough, and he comes at it from an angle more congenial to other concerns you have raised.


He sometimes shows an especial pique at white people grifting off of Race as a career and the kind of “training” apparently imposed upon you at work:

“To oversimplify a little bit, the people who are most insistent that race solely determines the character and quality of every Black person’s life are people who are dependent, in one way or another, on selling or pimping that view to make their own living.”


In my opinion, the Robin deAngelos of the world, and those that pimp them, have a lot to answer for.

Anyone who is a true student in history knows that every people group has been the enslaved and slave-holder at some point in time.

First, he is white and our tiny firm is entirely white. He was telling me about my white privilege and how I need to make accomodations for non-white people.

I could barely contain myself. I raised a bi-racial child and my basic mantra was "there is no excuse." I talked to a friend who raised two bi-racial children. She had the exact same attitude. Whatever the challenges, we got through them, but there was no excuse for bad behavior.


Just from my side of the fence.

So your firm is entirely white, but there is no white privilege? How does that work? Having white privilege is not the same thing as being responsible for creating it. I certainly have it. And male privilege. Even retiree privilege. My income tax bill is very nearly zero on a livable income.

Funny that nobody seems to react strongly when they are exposed to an anti-drunk driving PSA. They simply ignore it if it doesn't apply. I was in a cancer fundraiser once and got the obligatory t-shirt. When I wear it, nobody ever has angrily said "all cancers matter."

I think the hostility to efforts to fight racism is telling.

I once worked for a software company (in Utah, natch) where some of the software engineers got in a discussion about feminist complaints about sexism in the workplace. They were in near universal agreement that women have it better than men because of all the "special rights" they have gotten. (Why is anything these clowns don't like always get characterized as "special rights"?)

It was a small, company, 28 software engineers, all male. Two people hired to do packaging design and other art work, both female. Four male executives/sales people, all male, two "admins" (secretarial staff, HR, basically jills-of-all-trades) both female.

Do you think any of the women there had a salary that was higher than the salary of any of the men? I'd be surprised if any of them had 70% of the lowest male salary. Yet among the group of men, there was near universal agreement that women in general had it better than men because of those special rights.

Methinks they did protest too much. [Oh, and just for the record, every last person in the company was white]

Same thing with the protests against racism. I recently saw a funny bit by Chris Rock where he was telling the audience "y'all don't want to be black. You don't even want to be me, and I'm rich." He got a good laugh, but he had a point.

and I'm going to make it one as soon as I can.

    

I'd be satisfied if you'd just get repaired.

I’m out of warranty.

Yep, a total loss…

Not so fast, he could go to Cuba. They know how to make old things last a looooooooong time.

Implants or dentures?

Implants??

Don't hold your breath. I'm still waiting for mine from the Normans that invaded England, and made all legal documents unreadable.

Way up-thread, Heartless said:

> Any white folks travel extensively in central or south america can experience racism.

Having lived for two years in northern Brazil, I think I have relevant experience. Even in Brazil, with a huge racially mixed population, that prides itself on not being racist, skin tone matters. The lighter the better, basically. White people may be treated with distrust, but I don't see that as the same as racism.

For anyone trying to get a job or a date, or even selling religion, as I was, being white generally got you the benefit of the doubt, at the very least.