Oli London is a British male who does not identify as British but instead as Korean. He has had 18 surgeries so far as part of his transition. Here’s his coming out video:

https://youtu.be/fccOsafAXgE


I asked a very thoughtful RfMer a while ago what the difference is between Gender dysphoria and Racial dysphoria. I received a well considered answer but I confess that I did not fully understand it.

What confuses even more is that most people agree with banning conversion therapy. But certainly as people well aware of Mormon culture we can understand an LDS homosexual’s dysphoria towards their sexuality, right? What makes their dysphoria different from gender or racial dysphoria?

South Park a very long time ago spoofed all of this with species dysphoria.


If it is better to train a dysphoric homosexual to accept their homosexuality, why isn’t it better to train racial dysphorics to accept their race and gender dysphorics to accept their sex (leaving aside the anatomical ambiguous)?

I have no firm opinions, let alone conclusions, on any of this, just questions. I have a lot to learn about this phenomena.

Liberals,”There’s no such thing as ‘race’. Race is a social construct!”
Also Liberals,”YOU CAN’T JUST CHOOSE TO IDENTIFY AS A DIFFERENT RACE THAN THE ONE YOU INHERITED, even though we are all 99.9% genetically identical!”
Also Liberals,”You can switch genders anytime you like, even though you still have XX or XY Chromosomes, which determine your sex.”

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberals,”There’s no such thing as ‘race’.
> Race is a social construct!”
> Also Liberals,”YOU CAN’T JUST CHOOSE TO
> IDENTIFY AS A DIFFERENT RACE THAN THE ONE YOU
> INHERITED, even though we are all 99.9%
> genetically identical!”
> Also Liberals,”You can switch genders anytime
> you like, even though you still have XX or XY
> Chromosomes, which determine your sex.”
==============================

I think you may mean Leftists, compadre.
Liberalism is a method (unless referring to the sociopolitical philosophy which unfortunately assumes the term)

There are liberals who positionally end up on the Right.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberals,”There’s no such thing as ‘race’.
> Race is a social construct!”

Putting aside your misrepresentation of the liberal view by omitting the word "biological," what is your position on race now?

You used to say race is biologically real. Among your 593 posts on the topic--I did a search--there were several in which you told us that race exists genetically and is explained by Neanderthal DNA in Europeans and Denisovan DNA in Asians. Do you remember those factually erroneous missives?

What about your statements that the BoM and the BoA condemn two entire "races"--black people and Native Americans?

How about your assertions that race must exist because it is on the US census forms?

And what about your ambushing of LDS missionaries both in person and via phone, in which you condemned LDS racism in general and with regard to specific races? Because those posts indicate that at various times you have considered both race and racism real.

What is the truth du jour?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 10:39PM by Lot's Wife.

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But certainly as
> people well aware of Mormon culture we can
> understand an LDS homosexual’s dysphoria towards
> their sexuality, right? . . . If it is better to train dysphoric homosexual to
> accept their homosexuality, why isn’t it better
> to train racial dysphorics to accept their race
> and gender dysphorics to accept their sex (leaving
> aside the anatomical ambiguous)?
===============================

Perhaps there is in the logic a confusion of the Mormon Corporation with an entity actually endeavoring to benefit humanity

Add Animal dysphoria to the mix. I'm thinking of that guy who altered himself to be a lizard and that woman who wants to be a cat. Where does the obsession with body modification start and end in the brain? I'm not sure if this is related in any way. The human brain and how it creates identity is interesting. The strange thing is there is only a small leap to the person who identifies as a prophet who talks to God. If there were surgery to modify someone into a shaman, would people be doing it?

My questions about this topic go all over the place.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where does the
> obsession with body modification start and end in
> the brain?
===============================
guessing ventromedial prefrontal cortex has a lot to do with it.
As well as dorsal stratum, thalamus

This seems to be where the obsession and belief circuits reside.
At least theoretically

She's Ukrainian, I think. Had scads of plastic surgery.

If someone thinks they are Napoleon, it’s better to encourage them act it out. It worked okay in the case of Russell M Nelson.

"If it is better to train a dysphoric homosexual to accept their homosexuality, why isn’t it better to train racial dysphorics to accept their race and gender dysphorics to accept their sex (leaving aside the anatomical ambiguous)?"

Consider a teenager (T) who finds himself dysphoric because although biologically a male, psychologically he identifies as a female. He goes to a wise counselor (WC) who tells him the following:

“I can refer you to one of two cognitive behavioral therapists (CBT). CBT(1) will provide you with a CBT program that will change your psychology such that you will no longer identify as a female, thus resolving your dysphoria. Alternatively, I can refer you to CBT(2). CBT(2) will provide you with a CBT program that will change your psychology such that you will be comfortable identifying as a female, thus resolving your dysphoria. Which CBT do you want to go to?”

Notice that the above hypothetical avoids any factual judgments or speculations as to which CBT is safer or more effective. Obviously, there *are* such facts as related to the alternatives that are relevant to the question posed; most importantly facts related to the effectiveness of the alternative therapies, and the social implications of the decision. So, for the sake of argument let’s suppose that all relevant facts as related to either choice CBT(1) or CBT(2) come out equal, such that both therapies are equally effective; and both therapies are equally socially acceptable (a reach to be sure!). What then?

What is left is something that is also missing from WC’s counsel: Any value judgment as to which alternative is “better,” “moral” “right” or “wrong.” This does not mean that there are no such value judgments to be considered. It means that (T) must apply such value judgments to the question himself in order to make a decision. Without introducing a value judgment as to which alternative is “better” or of more “value” to him, no decision can be forthcoming—except perhaps at random. Now, in real life, there are plenty of people who will be quite happy to supply (T) with all the “facts” and value judgments he might need; and thus might sway him one way or another. Moreover, the “facts” as presented will properly influence the value judgments—both of third party do-gooders and (T) himself. So, it is complicated. However, the point to remember is that the question as to which alternative is “better” involves factual assessments and related value judgments on multiple levels.

The analysis for ‘racial’ identity dysphoria proceeds in the same way; only obviously involving different facts and values. There is no distinction to be made between gender dysphoria and ‘racial’ dyphoria per se. The distinctions arise when people bring their preferred facts and values to the table. Once that is done (T), or anyone else, might say that in one case CBT(1) is “better” while in the other case CBT(2) is better.

The temptation, of course, is to assign a higher value to a psychological outcome that is consistent with biology. The problem, however, as you point out, is that this creates its own inconsistencies. And since this suggestion is itself a value judgment, it should be assigned or not assigned by the person facing the decision; all things considered.

Among gender dysphoria their are a genetic and also a physical subset that deserve treatment in keeping with their issues. There is another set for whom chemical imbalances are present and more for whom treatment helps their social operation. There are transpeoole where going on hormones clears up the body dysphoria.There is still yet another non-transitioning group where merely freeing themselves from societal expectations of their originally perceived gender is sufficient, perhaps some among the non-binary fit here.

There are a number of different situations within the trans umbrella classification.

Within racial dysphoria, I think you could draw parallels with trans people for whom the societal baggage of gender is a mismatch to their life experience and self perception. Such transitions are not accepted in our society, but such fluidity of identity doesn't really seem outside the range of normal human expression or experience. Just outside current societal bounds.

I blame autocorrect for the there their misuse.