I already got vaccinated the first chance I had, but now, my Boss just told all employees, and our vendors, we have to get vaccinated or we will get fired!

This applies to all employees and vendors, even if we work remotely. This new directive caused so much consternation and objections the Boss quit answering the phone but he is not backing down.


Turns out our ‘vendors’ include lessors, who own the buildings we lease for almost all of our our employees.
So #1 unanswered question is,”How are we going to force lessors to get vaccinated?”


We have to go and add an addendum to thousands of leases across the State. And if lessors don’t want to sign the addendum w/o a ridiculously high fee, what then, move out?


Then what if nobody wants to lease space to an agency that forces lessors take a vaccine before it has FDA approval?
I guess we can all plan on remote working from now on!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2021 05:54PM by schrodingerscat.

> . . . before
> it has FDA approval. . .

Here it is again: the lie masquerading as truth.

The FDA approved the vaccines, as it has many other emergency medical treatments in the past, in accordance with Section 564 of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938. So please stop pretending the vaccines are not fully authorized.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/567273-how-waiting-for-full-fda-approval-was-weaponized-by-vaccine-opponents

However, in this pandemic, the achievement of the EUA — and having multiple safe vaccines available — has become something held against the vaccines by some Americans. This is because a concerted misinformation campaign is underway describing the vaccines as “experimental” or akin to a large clinical trial. Nothing could be further from the truth. The “experiments” — if one can describe meticulously monitored clinical trials in this manner — have been completed in adults and children above the age of 12. Billions of doses have gone into the arms of people worldwide. The evidence of the efficacy and safety demonstrated unequivocally in the trials is evident.

The lack of full FDA licensure has become a misleading talking point for those opposed to the vaccine. Surveys of the unvaccinated have shown that this strategy has unfortunately been successful in dissuading people from improving and saving their lives through vaccination. The lack of licensure has also made many organizations reticent to mandate vaccination as a condition of employment of participation (although they are well within their abilities to do so under EUA).

I even think that article is too qualified.

Licensure isn't the question. The question is approval, or to use the term the law employs, "authorization." There are two different procedures, both termed authorization and both equally valid.

The FDA has authorized the vaccines. Period.

If only “authorized” meant “safe and effective”.

The vaccines are safe and effective.

The spirit tells me that is true.

I don't put much store in the spirit and its attestations. What tells me it is true is the data, namely 50,000 American lives per month relative to what happened last year.

I'm not an anti-vaxer.
I'm a pro-vaxer.
I actually agree with our Governor, my boss. I just know my (largely white) co-workers and vendors. Many of whom are generally very conservative. (I'm not) For whatever reason, they (conservatives) do NOT want to get vaccinated and they do NOT want to wear masks. I work with a lessor who refuses to wear a mask in his building. We, the state, rent from him and we have a very strict mask mandate in all of our agencies. That created a pretty antagonistic dynamic.
Now I can only imagine when I go to tell the Lessor that he has to get vaccinated because the Governor says so. He's going to tell me to go pound salt.
Waiting for FDA Approval is an excuse.
What a lot of Conservatives really want to do is "Own the Libs".
It'd be hilarious if it wasn't for this GD virus mutating and getting 1000 times more deadly because of the Covidiots who want to 'own the Libs'.
I'm with Gov. Shwarzenegger, "There is a virus here, it kills people, The only way we prevent it is get vaccinated, get masks, do social distancing, washing your hands all the time, and not just to think about, 'Well my freedom is being kind of disturbed here.' No, screw your freedom. Because with freedom comes obligations and responsibilities, you cannot just say, 'I have the right to do X, Y and Z,' when you affect other people, that is when it gets serious. It's no different from a traffic light, you put a traffic light at an intersection so someone doesn't kill someone else."
https://www.sfgate.com/california-politics/article/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-video-viral-mask-rant-COVID-16382436.php

OK, first of all, why is the boss's decision on requiring vaccination your problem? Unless it is part of your job description, settling conflicts with vendors etc is the boss's problem, and has probably already been considered when making the decision.

Second, you are degrading on inserting white space in your posts. You were halfway passable for a while. Hit the return key twice. Not that complicated.

Even Joe Exotic likes the vax;

https://twitter.com/colbertlateshow/status/1425997515908947968



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2021 06:38PM by stillanon.

I have zero problem with employers demanding their employees be fully vaccinated.

You'll know, LR, that the Government of Canada announced today a vaccine mandate for all federal workers.

In B.C. they announced yesterday that all people working in, and visiting, long term care homes must be vaccinated. Of all the new cases of CV recently in LTC 100% were contracted by residents from people coming in from outside. They've already paid their dues. The highest rates of morbidity and mortality from CV have been in the care homes. Plus they already haven't been able to receive in-person visits from family and friends for well over a year now. Don't want to go down that road again.

I know people that refuse to get vaccinated. Would hate for them to pass the virus on to an unvaccinated front line worker or a person in care.

Exactly.

Yay !

I think insurance companies are starting to put the pressure on employers. People may not believe in science but they will understand when their premiums go up. I recently read an article (can't find it) that said people with high deductible health plans are getting hit hard financially with Covid costs.

This is the only way we will be able to shut this pandemic down.

I had two very close friends.
Bothe got vaccinated.
Both DIED from covid!!!
It is just how the ball bounces
or the dice rolls



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2021 05:25PM by thedesertrat1.

Can you give any details about this? Such a rare event but it happened to two people you know? Sorry though for your loss.

I don't believe you.

"Masks are Communist!"
"...Sir this is a Wendy's".

They're Dead right!
Here in Ireland,we're at 80 plus percent of the population fully vaccinated.I hear that there are parts of America where the rate is much lower.
Unbelievable.
Much like the Mormon cult,there are people,who,for whatever reason are emotionally vulnerable and will buy in to almost anything,albeit false propaganda.

Hello Ireland!

Thanks a million Nightingale!Hello to you too!
I hope you have lovely sunshine where you are!Us on the other hand,mid-summer...it's pouring rain!Typical!


Random note but...you all should see the 'meetinghouses' here.They're a joke.Some are like literally a rented room above a shop or a takeaway.

Ah yes, Relief Society conducted amidst the smells of Tandori Chicken and other delights wafting up from below.

Heaven!

Yeah it rains a lot over there, it seems. But I love the rain.

My maternal grandmother was a darling little Irish lady with a glorious singing voice. I didn't inherit a smidge of her talent. I'd love to go one day and see where she was born (Limerick).

I don't think we've had anybody from Ireland posting here before. No-one that gave that location anyway (not that you have to give a location, everything can be private here).

Anyway, welcome to the board.

And 80% vaxxed in Ireland. That's great news. Our number in Canada is 71+% fully vaccinated. 82% have had their first shot.

It's become an election issue now. A snap federal election was just called (2 yrs early) and the current feds (who will likely win again) have just announced a vaccine mandate for all who work for the federal government. The main opposition party has said they encourage, but will not mandate, vaccines. I can understand different takes on how to go about protecting people. But not an insistence on no protection at all, from the individual level on up to people in government who are calling the shots, literally in this case.

I must admit to being shocked and amazed at people being anti-vax due to their religious beliefs. I never noticed that tendency before except in Christian Science but even they don't avoid all medical care.

Jehovah's Witnesses are infamous for refusing blood transfusions, which is still current doctrine. They also banned their adherents from being vaccinated from 1931 to 1952. Thankfully, they reversed that policy.

I've attended more than my fair share of evangelical church services and have never heard anti-medicine or anti-vax beliefs taught. But now, in the midst of a pandemic many EVs are resistant to getting the vaccine, which baffles me. However, it is on trend with where some of them were already. From an article from USA Today:

"Sadly, once nearly eradicated childhood diseases are on the rise as more people claim religious exemptions to decline vaccinations for their children. Yet practically no major religion prohibits vaccination, and some consider it an obligation because of the potential to save lives, as the COVID-19 vaccines clearly do."

In the article, Dr. Andrew Wong, an orthopaedic surgeon, states:

"As a doctor and a Christian, I am struck by the profound difference that my fellow Christians could make in the trajectory of the pandemic by getting vaccinated. The delta variant, a much more transmissible form of COVID-19, threatens a new round of restrictions and a new round of deaths. And nearly all the deaths involve people who haven’t been vaccinated.

"Earlier this year, 45% of white evangelical adults said they would not be vaccinated, according to a Pew Research Center survey. That amounts to more than 45 million Americans or 14% of the population, based on the 2020 Census of American Religion. If this group alone accepted the COVID-19 vaccine, we could begin to close in on herd immunity and move beyond this painful and deadly season."


Here's the article (July 2021):

(NB: religious beliefs expressed)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/07/28/take-covid-19-vaccine-its-christian-thing-do/5389873001/

Dr. Wong uses the scriptural tenet that I mentioned here recently, the repeated appeal in the Bible and in countless sermons to love one another. As the good doctor says, being vaccinated and thereby helping to prevent transmission of a potentially deadly virus is a great way to show love for others. The vaccines have been shown to be effective in preventing spread of disease. That should be the end of the argument, you would think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2021 02:28PM by Nightingale.

Good. Anything to stop the anti-vax lunacy that is screwing our return to normalcy is a positive.

both politics & religions invite & enable people to do silly & often harmful actions to others, we should all beware.

we Know COVID kills people, the vax? I've never heard of the vax killing or even harming anyone (if Yes, extremely rare).

What possible agenda is there for the liberals in this matter???

OTOH, we know what the so-called conservatives want.

Where I worked before was the opposite of where I work now. It was a company run by super conservative Christians, who believed the Corona Virus was a Liberal hoax to force them to stop attending church.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already got vaccinated the first chance I had,
> but now, my Boss just told all employees, and our
> vendors, we have to get vaccinated or we will get
> fired!
>
> This applies to all employees and vendors, even if
> we work remotely. This new directive caused so
> much consternation and objections the Boss quit
> answering the phone but he is not backing down.
>
>
> Turns out our ‘vendors’ include lessors, who
> own the buildings we lease for almost all of our
> our employees.
> So #1 unanswered question is,”How are we going
> to force lessors to get vaccinated?”
>
>
> We have to go and add an addendum to thousands of
> leases across the State. And if lessors don’t
> want to sign the addendum w/o a ridiculously high
> fee, what then, move out?
>
>
> Then what if nobody wants to lease space to an
> agency that forces lessors take a vaccine before
> it has FDA approval?
> I guess we can all plan on remote working from now
> on!
MY SOLUTION TO THAT KIND OF THREAT!!!
The entire staff walks out so the employer can run the business as he sees fit!!!!!!!!

Ha! Good luck getting "the entire staff" to go alone with "your solution."

And then there's being unemployed.

Roy G Biv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha! Good luck getting "the entire staff" to go
> alone with "your solution."
>
> And then there's being unemployed.
It is just one solution
An option as it were
Explore all options then take action

>> "It is just one solution
An option as it were
Explore all options then take action"

So you explored all options and decided this was the best one? Is that what you're saying?

I didn't need to explore any other options to know yours was not practical.

That is a harmful view, IMO. Employers MAKE employees use safety precautions all the time. If you handled food, would you quit if they insisted you wash your hands? If you operated heavy equipment, would you quit if they demanded head protection?

COVID is a health and safety issue to protect the employees and others.

People are not helping who want to turn it into a "freedom" issue. Too bad they don't require the vaccine in the unemployment line you'd be in.

Excellent point! You don't get to pick and choose what safety policies you're going to follow at your employer.

I used to be a safety auditor at work and would do little random inspections to see if people were following the safety rules. One time a fellow engineer that was new in his career wasn't wearing safety glasses in a area that required them. When I casually mentioned he should be wearing them he replied back with "I don't give a S#!T about safety Roy! I do whatever the hell I want!" He didn't realize I was a safety auditor.

Needless to say, that didn't go down on paper very well and achieved a result he was not expecting.

Roy G Biv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to be a safety auditor at work . . .

Why does that clause bring to mind images of Homer Simpson at the nuclear power plant?

Doh! That's me. feet up on the desk, eating donuts, drinking coffee, daydreaming about beer, just waiting to push a button or two.

My boss once said this about me...."Well, as safety inspector he hasn't exactly set the world on fire, although he's come close several times."

:-)

Roy G Biv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent point! You don't get to pick and choose
> what safety policies you're going to follow at
> your employer.
>
> I used to be a safety auditor at work and would do
> little random inspections to see if people were
> following the safety rules. One time a fellow
> engineer that was new in his career wasn't wearing
> safety glasses in a area that required them. When
> I casually mentioned he should be wearing them he
> replied back with "I don't give a S#!T about
> safety Roy! I do whatever the hell I want!" He
> didn't realize I was a safety auditor.
>
> Needless to say, that didn't go down on paper very
> well and achieved a result he was not expecting.

Safety rules as defined by OSHA are quite a different than what we're going through with this pandemic. If the company has a safety glasses rule that is being ignored by a defiant employee, you fire their ass and make an example of them, (if necessary), and they have no recourse. OSHA will back that company up for doing the right thing. No lawyer would defend the employee's claim that they have a right to ignore the company's safety policy which are based on the OSHA requirements.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/1910.1030

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/WPVHC/Nurses/Course/Slide/Unit5_4



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2021 10:03PM by Tevai.

AZSteve opined,

> The best policy for forcing a
> legitimate Covid-19 vaccination
> plan would probably be an approach
> that involves OSHA rules, which is
> actually the law. But OSHA is staying
> conspicuously silent on this issue.
> This is odd considering the require-
> ments of the OSHA general duty clause.
> Either the people at OSHA are Covid-19
> deniers, or they know something
> significant that we don't know.


The above views presented by AZSteve seem, to me, to be totally out of line with what is found on the OSHA website. ...but it's all in English, and I'm, you know, Mexican...


"OSHA emphasizes that vaccination is the most effective way to protect against severe illness or death from COVID-19.  OSHA strongly encourages employers to provide paid time off to workers for the time it takes for them to get vaccinated and recover from any side effects.  Employers should also consider working with local public health authorities to provide vaccinations for unvaccinated workers in the workplace.  

"Finally, OSHA suggests that employers consider adopting policies that require workers to get vaccinated or to undergo regular COVID-19 testing – in addition to mask-wearing and physical distancing – if they remain unvaccinated.  People are considered fully vaccinated for COVID-19 two weeks or more after they have completed their final dose of a COVID-19 vaccine authorized for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in the United States."

--https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/safework


OMG!!!  Communists have hacked the OSHA website!!!!!

OSHA's busy. I think the DMV should oversee vaccine trials, licensing, and regulation?.

Or maybe Parks and Recreation.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OSHA's busy. I think the DMV should oversee
> vaccine trials, licensing, and regulation?.
>
> Or maybe Parks and Recreation.

Workplace safety is a pretty big issue with some applicable teeth to enforce the protection of employees at their work place. Unvaccinated people like me (even though I have had covid and can't spread it now) are being accused of killing people by exposing them to a deadly disease at work. If the company wanted to compel me to get vaccinated, they wouldn't get any help from the Parks and Recreation department or the DMV. They could avoid the appearance that they are political or the bad guy, by simply building a case based on existing OSHA statutes and the fact that they must comply with the law if they want to stay in business.

Catching a deadly disease from others where you work is a workplace issue. The employer has a right to control the workplace environment to meet the requirements of the General Duty Clause. I think that if Shrodinger's boss wants to keep from pissing too many people off because of sheer politics, that he should position himself as someone who has no choice himself. I could build that Power Point presentation myself. I am sure that Shrodinger could do a better job than I could, given his understanding of how his employer's company works. If his boss won't find some kind of political cover, it's all ego and he will pay a price for what be does.

Conduct your Environmental Health and Safety experts. Read 29 CFR 1910. Brainstorm. Try to get your safety people to go outside of the box. This is how to work internal company politics. People won't agree with you at first (plan on that). Exert your will. Mean it if you're sincere. If you succeed at saving some or all of the business that your boss will lose otherwise, you'll be seen as more of a successful business person.

Personally, I won't agree with what you're doing. But if my employer played that hand well, I might resent what they're doing less, or would have less resentment. I hope you are successful either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2021 10:46PM by azsteve.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Workplace safety is a pretty big issue with some
> applicable teeth to enforce the protection of
> employees at their work place. Unvaccinated people
> like me (even though I have had covid and can't
> spread it now) are being accused of killing people
> by exposing them to a deadly disease at work. If
> the company wanted to compel me to get vaccinated,
> there wouldn't get any help from the Parks and
> Recreation department.

It was a joke, Steve. I don't really think Parks and Recreation should be licensing vaccines.


---------------
> They could avoid the
> appearance that they are political or the bad guy,
> by simply building a case based on existing OSHA
> statutes and the fact that they must comply with
> the law if they want to stay in business.

Excellent idea! We have the FDA and all sorts of centers of expertise that are statutorily required to manage vaccines but you think we should ignore them and go with OSHA, an entity with 1) no statutory authority, and 2) no expertise.

What could go wrong?


------------------
> Catching a deadly disease from others where you
> work is an workplace issue. The employer has a
> right to control the workplace environment to meet
> the requirements of the General Duty Clause. I
> think that if Shrodinger's boss wants to keep from
> pissing too many people off because of sheer
> politics, that he position himself as someone who
> has no choice himself.

Love it! Measures designed to combat COVID are "sheer politics." But I fear, azsteve, that this post is going away because you are repeating bat-shit crazy conspiracy theories.


-------------------
> Conduct your Environmental
> Health and Safety experts. Read 29 CFR 1910.
> Brainstorm.

I have read it and it does not give OSHA any right to oversee the development, testing, licensing, and distribution of vaccines.

Otherwise it's a great idea, though.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> azsteve Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Workplace safety is a pretty big issue with
> some
> > applicable teeth to enforce the protection of
> > employees at their work place. Unvaccinated
> people
> > like me (even though I have had covid and can't
> > spread it now) are being accused of killing
> people
> > by exposing them to a deadly disease at work.
> If
> > the company wanted to compel me to get
> vaccinated,
> > there wouldn't get any help from the Parks and
> > Recreation department.
>
> It was a joke, Steve. I don't really think Parks
> and Recreation should be licensing vaccines.
>
>
> ---------------
> > They could avoid the
> > appearance that they are political or the bad
> guy,
> > by simply building a case based on existing
> OSHA
> > statutes and the fact that they must comply
> with
> > the law if they want to stay in business.
>
> Excellent idea! We have the FDA and all sorts of
> centers of expertise that are statutorily required
> to manage vaccines but you think we should ignore
> them and go with OSHA, an entity with 1) no
> statutory authority, and 2) no expertise.
>
> What could go wrong?
>
>
> ------------------
> > Catching a deadly disease from others where you
> > work is an workplace issue. The employer has a
> > right to control the workplace environment to
> meet
> > the requirements of the General Duty Clause. I
> > think that if Shrodinger's boss wants to keep
> from
> > pissing too many people off because of sheer
> > politics, that he position himself as someone
> who
> > has no choice himself.
>
> Love it! Measures designed to combat COVID are
> "sheer politics." But I fear, azsteve, that this
> post is going away because you are repeating
> bat-shit crazy conspiracy theories.
>
>
> -------------------
> > Conduct your Environmental
> > Health and Safety experts. Read 29 CFR 1910.
> > Brainstorm.
>
> I have read it and it does not give OSHA any right
> to oversee the development, testing, licensing,
> and distribution of vaccines.
>
> Otherwise it's a great idea, though.

We're talking about persuading people to do the right thing (assuming that is Shrodinger is sincere about that). Politics exists everywhere, especially in the workplace. You have to work with it if you want to help your employer. You would be shocked if you knew some of the political things I've pulled-off at work to help my employer's interests, even when I had personal reservations. These agencies all support eachother. There are no conspiracy theories. Everything supports the FDA's goals. No one is claiming that OSHA licenses vaccines or that they should license vaccines. You don't need to license vaccines to mandate that the employees take them. If people don't trust one source of authority that currently issues no mandate to force Covid-19 vaccines, then try another source that applies and that does have mandates. But the chain of credibility has to stay in-tact. To say "you have to comply because I am the boss" gets a person nowhere. If you say "I have to meet these legal mandates", you can build support instead of creating enemies. There are currently no FDA mandates that can force Covid-19 vaccinations. So you find another way with potentially more authority and possibly some political cover (blame the government for forcing you to do it). If what you present to others appears to be true and if you believe that it is true, there are no ethical violations.

Also, to execute such a plan would be done by putting the vaccination requirement, right in to your company's existing (documented) health and safety plans. At that point after distributing the new health and safety plan, any violation of the vaccination plan becomes both a violation of company policy, and potentially of OSHA rules (depending on how you word things). If it must be done, it's better to document everything before you start to sever business relationships and let employees go.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2021 12:21AM by azsteve.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one is claiming that OSHA licenses
> vaccines.

You are right. No one claims OSHA licenses vaccines. But you are arguing that it SHOULD license vaccines and that's lunacy.


----------------
> If people don't trust one source, try
> another. But the chain of credibility has to stay
> in-tact.

So your view is that Trump and his followers would criticize the FDA for pushing masks and vaccines but not OSHA? Does that make sense to you?


---------------
> There are
> currently no FDA mandates that can force
> vaccinations.

Another falsehood. The federal and state governments have full authority to impose vaccine mandates.

Jacobsen v Massachusetts, 1905. You can look it up although I doubt you will.


-------------------
> So you find another way.

No need. The FDA has authority to do what it is doing and more. You may not like that, but your opinions change neither the statutes nor the constitution.

azsteve: "Unvaccinated people like me (even though I have had covid and can't spread it now)..."

Steve: I can't help but repeat it again - this is not true:

USA Today article, August 2021:

"As concerned friends and family members try to convince loved ones to get vaccinated, many are met with the argument: "I already got COVID, so I can't get it again."

"Health experts say that just isn't true.

"Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.

"People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.

“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.

"A study published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found unvaccinated people who have had COVID-19 are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with the virus compared with people who were fully vaccinated after contracting the virus.

"The study included hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous COVID-19 infections from May through June. It showed those who were unvaccinated were 2.34 times more likely to be reinfected compared with those who were fully vaccinated.

“If you have had COVID-19 before, please still get vaccinated,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. “This study shows you are twice as likely to get infected again if you are unvaccinated. Getting the vaccine is the best way to protect yourself and others around you, especially as the more contagious delta variant spreads around the country.”

Anyone can be at risk for reinfection, health experts said, regardless of age or health status."

-----

Too, if you have had COVID-19 and recovered you are more likely to be asymptomatic if you become re-infected. This means you don't know you're carrying the virus and can unknowingly be transmitting it to all those you come into contact with.

That is dangerous to them.

If a person cared about that, hopefully they would make every effort to become as informed as possible about the latest medical updates, advice and recommendations. The goal is to keep both oneself and others safe as far as that is within our power.

With the DMV in charge the 2 weeks to flatten the curve may have ended up being over a year!

Oh wait.....

   DON'T REGISTER WITH YOUR LOCAL VACCINATION BOARD !


   TEAR UP YOUR VACCINATION CARD !!


   I GOT NO RESPECT, SO I WON'T INJECT !!!



Everything old becomes new again?

So quit and start your own company hiring only unvaccinated types. Nothing stopping you here.

I actually agree with my Boss on this issue.
I also think we should make proof of vaccination a requirement to eat in a restaurant, or fly on a plane, like NYC and Paris.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually agree with my Boss on this issue.
> I also think we should make proof of vaccination a
> requirement to eat in a restaurant, or fly on a
> plane, like NYC and Paris.

Your boss probably does have a legal right to do what he is doing. But he is operating as roughly one-percent of what other businesses are doing out there right now.

I compare your boss to Mike Lindell (the pillow guy). When is all has been said and done, probably only a half of the country would ever considering doing business with Lindell, because he uses his business fame to promote Donald Trump's political interests. So most liberals/democrats wouldn't use Lindell's pillows, even if he gave them away for free. If your boss wants to alienate even a third of the people who were otherwise going to do business with him, he has the right to do that. Most good business people don't allow their business decisions to be ruled by their emotions because that always costs them money by alienating partners and customers. If I were you, I would start looking for a new job, not because of what your boss is trying to accomplish, but because he allows his emotions to rule his business decisions.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most good business people don't allow their
> business decisions to be ruled by their emotions. . .

Hahaha. Protecting your employees and customers from COVID is a decision made emotionally rather than rationally!


---------------------
> If I were you, I would
> start looking for a new job, not because of what
> your boss is trying to accomplish, but because he
> allows his emotions to rule his business
> decisions.

That's genius.

You think he is going to lose customers because he requires all employees to be vaccinated? You do realize that a lot of employers are requiring or will soon require this, right? They all think this is a good business decision,

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You think he is going to lose customers because he
> requires all employees to be vaccinated? You do
> realize that a lot of employers are requiring or
> will soon require this, right? They all think this
> is a good business decision,

I am talking about the customers that Shrodinger is worried about here, not the ones that agree with him already. It sounds like there are many of Shrodinger's customers that will be alienated by what Shrodinger's boss is doing. That seemed to be Shrodinger's concern. They might be making emotional decisions also. But it's not about who is right or wrong politically. It's about keeping cohesion in customer, supplier, and employee relationships. I've just given a good idea to someone I don't agree with politically, because I hate to see things go bad in business. Hopefully it helps.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2021 11:38PM by azsteve.

On the other hand, if 2/3 of people feel more comfortable being in an environment that is safer because employees have been vaccinated, use masks and other safe practices and choose to spend their money there great. If it is the best/only place for that item or service the 1/3 can go make other plans. If I have a choice of going to two different theaters I will choose the one that requires proof of vax to spend my money at. Really, people are tired of this tyranny of the minority.

"It'd be hilarious if it wasn't for this GD virus mutating and getting 1000 times more deadly because of the Covidiots who want to 'own the Libs'."

You sure about that? I mean, if you are vaccinated, it means you've spent thousands of hours researching the science, looking at all sources, right? I assume you have read these, but I'll post them anyway:


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/leaky-vaccines-can-produce-stronger-versions-of-viruses-072715#What-We-Learned-from-Chickens

Quote

“These vaccines also allow the virulent virus to continue evolving precisely because they allow the vaccinated individuals, and therefore themselves, to survive,” said Venugopal Nair, who led the research team. He is the head of the Avian Viral Diseases program at The Pirbright Institute.

These less-than-perfect vaccines create a “leaky” barrier against the virus. Vaccinated individuals may get sick but have less severe symptoms, but the virus survives long enough to transmit to others, which allows it to survive and spread throughout a population.

“Our research demonstrates that the use of leaky vaccines can promote the evolution of nastier ‘hot’ viral strains that put unvaccinated individuals at greater risk,” Nair said.

Marek’s disease used to be a minor ailment that did little harm to chickens in the 1950s, but the virus has grown stronger and today is capable of killing all the unvaccinated birds in poultry flocks, sometimes within 10 days.

But since nearly every chicken in agricultural production throughout the world is vaccinated, Marek’s is a relatively minor problem today.

End quote

I was just listening to this virologist and vaccine researcher discussing the above as related to covid. We are likely promoting more variants through vaccination, increasing the infection pressure. We started mass vaccination after variants already existed, making the vaccine "less-than-perfect" as described above. The variants now have competitive advantage over the wild virus.
I'm surprised the Ministry of Truth (youtube) hasn't deleted his video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGBDETOPAJA

It's looking good for the vaccine industry - vaccination creates demand for more vaccination.

Your first source is about chickens, does not mention mRNA vaccines at all, and is equally silent about COVID. Why? Because it was published months before that disease crossed the species barrier and appeared in humans. Ergo, it has nothing to say about COVID mRNA vaccines.

Your second link is to a veterinarian with some experience in human diseases who is viewed in the field as a quack. Indeed, his answer to the problems he purports to identify with the COVID vaccines is for the world to abandon all those efforts and embrace (and purchase) a vaccine he is working on.*.

You wrote that "it's looking good for the vaccine industry - vaccination creates demand for more vaccination." Your source agrees. In fact, that is his business proposition!


*https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/03/26/geert-vanden-bossche/

But YT and FB are the world leaders in healthcare!

I acknowledge that, Susan.

Youtube, Facebook, the Hoover Institution, and nonexistent Berkeley history professors: those are my go-to sources for cutting-edge information on global pandemics.

Those and articles about sick chickens.