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Posted by: BoydKKK ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 02:09PM

The New Orleans Saints have identified their successor to Drew Brees."

"Jameis Winston will be the team's starting quarterback in Week 1 against the Green Bay Packers, according to multiple reports."

Looks as if "White and Delightsome" Taysom Hill will be the backup QB for the New Orleans Saints to start the year.

Already hearing the nasty comments from some MoronicPriesthood types in our area. Somehow they still don't think Black athletes are smart enough for the position - especially over a BYU player.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 04:43PM

I believe the PC term for individuals of that ethnicity is either Blacks or African Americans or people of color.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 06:13PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the PC term for individuals of that
> ethnicity is either Blacks or African Americans or
> people of color.

This is the twenty-first century, and what GNPE writes is true.

I grew up in a family where my maternal side relatives were 100% unreconstructed Midwestern or Southern racists. (My step-grandfather had been an enthusiastic KKK member when he lived in Kansas--before he later moved to Los Angeles because of the Depression.)

What I (in southern California; I am a native Angelino) grew up learning in my family was that words and names count (and often count hugely--with potentially life or death consequences).... and that as society evolves, so does its vocabulary.

Since at least the Civil Rights Era, "Negro" is no longer an acceptable word in American society at large. This word has now joined its close relatives in the American historical trash dumpster.

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Posted by: anonyXmo ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 12:16AM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the PC term for individuals of that
> ethnicity is either Blacks or African Americans or
> people of color.



'Colored was the preferred term for black Americans until W.E.B. Du Bois, following the lead of Booker T. Washington, advocated for a switch to Negro in the 1920s. Du Bois also used black in his writings, but it wasn't his term of choice.

Despite claims that Negro was a white-coined word intended to marginalize black people, Du Bois argued that the term was "etymologically and phonetically" preferable to colored or "various hyphenated circumlocutions." Most importantly, the new terminology -- chosen by black leaders themselves -- symbolized a rising tide of black intellectual, artistic, and political assertiveness. After achieving the shift in vocabulary, Du Bois spearheaded a letter-writing campaign to capitalize his preferred term. In 1930 -- nine years before Harry Reid was born -- the New York Times Style Book made the change.'

https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/question/2010/october.htm

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Posted by: elmo ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 12:48AM

Negro is the masculine version of the color black in Spanish. Not sure if that explains it former usage in reference to African Americans.

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Posted by: anonyXmo ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 04:28AM

elmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Negro is the masculine version of the color black
> in Spanish. Not sure if that explains it former
> usage in reference to African Americans.

I'm sure most folkx are aware of that (though I think it might also be Latin, not sure iirc)

What is not explicable imo is why people feel the need to change the term every so often after a period of time and what the motivation is. Some say it's because the term starts getting used pejoratively but then what's to keep any new term from eventually getting used pejoratively and then having to be changed again

I remember when Afro-American was popular for a while, maybe because it's the same as African American but one less syllable

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Posted by: newcomer ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 07:39AM

Negro, Afro American and a few others were names given to black people and were only marginally better than the previous word society called them.

“Call me B, because A was bad.” When in reality B isn’t that good of a name either.

A school near me in Phoenix is called Papago, never mind that is a racial slur. The word the tribe wants to be called (T’hono O’odham) is hard to spell and say. Good luck convincing the community to change its name.

People are weird. They want to call people by whatever name they like, not what the actual group wants to be called.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 03:59PM

anonyXmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is not explicable imo is why people feel the
> need to change the term every so often after a
> period of time and what the motivation is.

Why is it so difficult to call people what they wish to be called?

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Posted by: Wardell ( )
Date: August 31, 2021 02:55PM

> "I believe the PC term for individuals of that
> ethnicity is either Blacks or African Americans or
> people of color."

My favorite African American is white as can be... Charlize Theron.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 10:08AM

I made the same mistake once way back late 70s.

We had no blacks in our school or even our city. We had plenty of people of color of Asian descent and some of Latin descent and "Lamanites" but simply no blacks.

My exposure to blacks my first 18 years of life was from the media or family references.

So my first month in the military I refered to a very nice gentleman as a negro. Fortunately my buddies corrected me.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 07:18PM

I would say we got past the black/white thing pretty well in the 1990’s. Nobody cared what color the new quarterback was or whatever. After the attacks on 9/11 everything went to shit. Now it feels like we are in 1968 again. Everything is about what group you are in and people are falling for it. Divide and conquer never went out of style. Who benefits? China for one.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 09:19PM

Article re Black Mormons:

“Mormons Grapple With Church's History Of Discrimination Amid Wider Racial Reckoning”

by Tonya Mosley, radio host

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/22/mormon-church-lds-black-racism


Mosley starts the article diplomatically by stating “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are also known as Mormons, has a troubled history with racial discrimination.” (Bit of an understatement?!)

This I did not know: “Black Americans were among its earliest converts and even served in leadership roles”…

She goes on:

“…but for over a century, they were barred from being ordained to the priesthood or from entering Mormon temples, where the faith’s holiest rituals are performed.”

That I found out (here on RfM) *after* leaving the church. I was appalled that I didn’t know it sooner (like before joining).

“That position wasn't reversed until 1978.” (Quite late).


Further excerpts:

“Now that recent protests have forced a racial reckoning throughout American society, many Mormons are taking a renewed look at racism in their own faith.

“The LDS Church announced an official partnership with the NAACP in 2018, but it may not be putting words into action, says LaShawn Williams, a licensed clinical social worker and an assistant professor of social work at Utah Valley University.

“I think that one of the best ways to show leadership is to do what you ask your members to do,” says Williams, who co-founded the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which puts on a yearly conference about Black Mormons.

“While some Mormons are a “little resistant” to anti-racist efforts by fellow church members, the majority are very open to it, says Diana Brown, co-founder of a study group on race and The Book of Mormon, one of the church’s scriptural texts, along with the Bible.

“I think a lot of them have questions as well about how to reconcile some complex aspects of the church history,” she says, “and how … they [can] maintain their faith and testimony in the church while acknowledging the pain that people of color experience due to certain policies and cultural norms and what to do about that.”

-----

“Some complex aspects of the church history…” Again, very diplomatic way to refer to the racist doctrine and practices of the Mormon Church.



“On the Mormon church's official partnership with the NAACP”:

“LaShawn Williams: “I think it runs the risk of being a symbolic partnership as opposed to a practical partnership. [The church] offered, in the Medium piece where they initially spoke out for racial unity, that they would explore ways together to work together to improve self-reliance and upward … mobility for inner-city and minority families. And so one of the spokespeople for the NAACP said that those were minor efforts, and they don't befit the stature and magnitude of what the LDS church can and should do and how they were looking forward to the church doing more to undo the 150 years of damage they did and how they treated African Americans in the church.”

Specific and interesting: “[the church's] minor efforts... don't befit the stature and magnitude of what the LDS church can and should do…to undo the 150 years of damage they did…”


“On whether the church should apologize for barring Black people from receiving the priesthood or entering Mormon temples”:

Williams: “I would love to see the church issue a number of statements. They came close. They released an essay that disavowed any previous practices, folklore, thoughts or ideas that were perpetrated by church leadership about the reasons for the ban. They did not go so far as to call the ban wrong or to call the ban racist. But they disavowed all of the explanations that were given and said that they currently disavow racism and that it is not connected to the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

Mormons disavowing “explanations” but not the ban or past racism is definitely not going far enough. *Now* they are saying that racism “is not connected to the gospel of Jesus Christ” so how do they account for why previously it was part of the doctrine and practices of the church? Can something so major really be discarded? If it is wrong now how was it not wrong originally?


Williams: “A few Black members that are inspiring to us are ... first pioneers, the first people to be baptized into the church or the first ones to hold the priesthood, or the first one to join the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, or the first ones to be baptized outside of the United States, and we listed all of their names on a T-shirt to go along with so many of the other Black history pioneers, (Malcolm X) and (Martin Luther King Jr.) and me, and we took that same energy and applied it to the church experience for Black members in Black history in the LDS church, because holding onto ancestors, standing on the shoulders of giants, is what allows us to continue moving forward. And there's work to be done in every place where Black people set their feet.”


I appreciate reading Williams' experience and opinions on this subject. It’s hard for me, though, to understand what draw Mormonism has for Black people. Not only its history but its doctrine is surely quite far outside their religious beliefs and life experience.


“On white Mormons’ reactions to anti-racist efforts by fellow church members”:

Diana Brown: “There is certainly a faction of people who I think are a little resistant to this, who see this as part of revisionist history, but I would say that the majority of people that I see are very, very open to it. … I'm seeing people really seamlessly blend language that we're drawing from this anti-racist movement that, you know, is largely happening outside of our church, with rhetoric about personal change, ministering, building Zion, building community that's very common in the church.”

Interesting and important point that the anti-racist movement is largely happening outside the Mormon Church.


Brown: "We’ve had Brother Ahmad Corbitt come [to speak]. He's a first counselor in the General Young Men's Presidency for the church, so a pretty high leadership position. He also is African American. He sort of talked about his initial draw to the church and to the Book of Mormon as, to use his terms, the most racially unifying book of scripture out there. We had an Indigenous scholar, Farina King, come in and talk about a passage in the Book of Mormon that's often interpreted to be referring to [Christopher] Columbus, and she was just sort of raising the question: Are we wanting to glorify Columbus at the expense of our Indigenous members of the church?”


Re Corbitt who says the BoM is “the most racially unifying book of scripture out there”. I’m not getting how it’s possible to say that.

Re Columbus: Good point.


Brown: “These are people [in the discussion group] who are pretty central in the church and involved in church leadership and things like that, and I think their common questions are just wanting to really understand the perspectives of minorities and people of color in the church for pastoral reasons, wanting to know how to do better outreach [and] administering.”

Involved in church leadership – interesting.


Brown: “I do think that people are really hungry for a theological reckoning with the church's past, something that is ... not just saying, … ‘Now we're all one, now that [the] policy is gone.’ Something that is saying, ‘How do we make sense of the fact that this happened?”


I included these excerpts to show the discussion and the thoughts of the women involved. I’m not intending to criticize them at all. I'm not qualified to question their personal beliefs and experiences. But I am surprised to read of Black women who are happy in the Mormon Church. It’s a mystery to me. I do appreciate hearing their perspective.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 09:31PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 09:47PM

The Mormon church must be the whitest church on the planet and it’s getting whiter and whiter all the time.
Any apology or explanation for past racism is meaningless as long as Mormon scriptures are still based upon a common 19th C racist myth that Native Americans were descended from a degenerate tribe of wandering Jews, cursed by God with dark skin for the sins of their fathers.
Or the Book of Abraham teaching that the descendants of Cain are cursed with black skin.
I know Mormons lie through their teeth to explain their way out of the racist label, but they certainly deserve it for choosing to identify with a proudly racist, sexist, homophobic doomsday Cult long after 21st C DNA evidence has debunked every bogus racist myth at the foundation of Joseph’s Myth.
It started out as a racist explanation to a naive 19th C theological problem, (where did all these huge civilizations come from and why didn’t God bother to mention them in the Bible?) and after 20th C Genetic science debunked those racist myths, Mormons pretended they were never racists, but the racism is still right there in black and white for the whole world to see. And they’re so proud of their racist narratives they go around the world and distribute it every day. Mostly in Africa, ironically, since they don’t apparently care what it says in the Book of Mormon or BOA about cursed black skin because that has nothing to do with them.
Either that or they are so illiterate and far away from the internet they don’t realize it’s even right there, in their holy book. For all to see.
You can lead a horse to water
You can’t make it drink.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 10:08PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any apology or explanation for past racism is
> meaningless as long as Mormon scriptures are still
> based upon a common 19th C racist myth that Native
> Americans were descended from a degenerate tribe
> of wandering Jews, cursed by God with dark skin
> for the sins of their fathers.

> Or the Book of Abraham teaching that the
> descendants of Cain are cursed with black skin.

Yeah, this is the part I don't get about Black members being happy to stay in the church, no matter how much discussion there is about a way to move forward.

Can someone explain it?

And seriously, this one? Corbitt [A Black man] says the BoM is “the most racially unifying book of scripture out there”. ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 10:12PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 10:21PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah, this is the part I don't get about Black
> members being happy to stay in the church, no
> matter how much discussion there is about a way to
> move forward.
>
> Can someone explain it?

Trying to come up with an explanation for that is what led me to follow the logic to where it led me, right out the door.

My last ward had a few mixed race families in it and one black couple. Our kids all played ball together and we coached together. I was assigned to be the home teacher for two of these families and we were all in Elders Quorum together, which is where it got interesting, discussing race issues at church and getting real.

>
> And seriously, this one? Corbitt says the BoM is
> “the most racially unifying book of scripture
> out there”. ???

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Posted by: Ynamerom ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 02:31AM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> schrodingerscat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> ... Corbitt says the BoM is “the most racially unifying book of scripture out there”.

He clearly doesn't know his scriptures, or books in general, or The MORMON Race... or himself, for that matter.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 10:04PM

From the article: "...the Book of Mormon, one of the church’s scriptural texts, along with the Bible."

What's in a word? "...scriptural texts, along with the Bible"

See how that rendering would maybe give it more weight?

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 09:35PM

Most of the Mormon church members will do whatever the church leaders tell them to do. If the First Presidency said "we're going to treat our black brothers and sisters with equality on Mondays, Wednesdays, and fridays, and then on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays, the curse of cain applies, many church members would be on-board with that because they believe anything the church tells them. The whole obedience thing in Mormonism needs to end.

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Posted by: Ynamerom ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 02:21AM

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the Mormon church members will do whatever the church leaders tell them to do. >

It should TELL THEM THE TRUTH
But it will claim (1) it doesn't know it, (2) it doesn't care, (3) it forgot it, (4) the members don't care, (5) it doesn't exist (Mormonism is made up)...

> The whole obedience thing in Mormonism needs to end. >

And Mormonism along with it!

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Posted by: newcomer ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 02:36PM

I found out about TBM's "white and delightsome" son-law after he questioned if my family was okay with my Jamaican sister-in-law.

Mind you the white and delightsome son-in-law has no education and my Jamaican sister-in-law is a pediatrician.

Too bad I didn't tell him to go suck on a railroad spike.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: August 31, 2021 06:17AM

Who are you?

What do you call yourself?

What if others keep calling you something that you do not want to be called?

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Posted by: Ynamerom ( )
Date: September 01, 2021 02:32AM

They probably don't care

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