People on this forum and on reddit likes to talk shit about what they would do to the church if they had one last opportunity to stand up to it. But I get criticism from exmos about how I've been treating my folks. I haven't spoken to them in months, and I'm planning to go a life time. I'm done. I'm so done. Every reasonable position on current events they take the opposite stance just because I took the reasonable one and apostates aren't supposed to be right about anything. They don't just believe in the dumbest conspiracy theories, they're out there making sure as many of my old peers believe them as possible. When it comes to pandemic stuff, my quack father is telling people that masks and vaccines kill you but wild viruses don't. That's not an exaggeration. Everyone in his office and everyone following his lead is of the opinion that natural immunity, which means risking COVID-19, is the far safer option. One of the last things my father tried to argue with me is that the vaccines have killed about a million people so far. He based that off of some obscure Harvard study that suggested that 99% of adverse reactions don't get reported to VAERS, so logically that means you can take the deaths associated with vaccines -- not caused, per se, but associated in the data -- and multiply it by 100. Walla. Before that, they believed the madness that caused the capital riot on the 6th of January which sacred the bejesus out of me. I'd been following it for months since the first time their Beloved refused to accept his L and slandered the process even though he couldn't prove a single thing in court -- a court full of his stacked judges, mind you. Before that, I've been hitting my head on a wall trying to get something from them, anything, to talk about my apostasy or sort out the awkwardness between us in a way that eased my own anxiety, and they won't to this day. Everyone knows I'm just a sinner and that's all they care about. I'm done. I'm not going to suffer their prejudices any more just to play a passive aggressive long game that maybe some of my family members will come around if I emulate the longsuffering of gentle Jesus, meek and mild. Even Christ had his moments when he fashioned a cat of ninetails and cussed and spit and hissed as he overthrew tables and drove out the race traitors from Jehovah's sacred house (money changers are supposed to be there according to the law of moses -- Jesus was probably angry because they were doing business as usual under a foreign puppet regime). To watch people indulge in the grossest anti-intellectualism while they revile me for my supposed sins and get my assenting silence is too much to ask. My stupid father either doesn't or won't comprehend that as a licensed medical professional he's not supposed to be spittin' bullshit that could get people killed. These people have wounded me over many years with their silliness and those wounds have healed in just about every context but around them: they keep it fresh by Morming up the place in their particular style. People observe that I seem to hate them just for existing as Mormons. No, I hate that they damaged me trying too hard to make and keep me Mormon. The emotional abuse drove me away. The unearned mistrust drove me away. The cold shoulders and prejudice drove me away. The arrogant willful stupidity drove me away. Atheism didn't make me a nihilist: they did. Nothing matters when I'm around them. When they are in my life constantly cutting me down to size or dismissing me out of hand when they bring up important subjects in front of me and (as ever) commenting on everything I do and forbidding me to talk back to them, I'm allowed to say enough and walk away. The church was half of the reason I had cPTSD. They're the other half, and I'm removing myself from it because fuck this -- life is too short. It's been quiet and lonely for several months, and it's almost been boring. I like it. No drama. No catastrophes. No anxiety. It is nice. I'm carefully choosing who I let into my life and my social media feed. I've given up trying to convince anybody of anything who does not want to hear it from me.

Don't listen to Mormons. Don't listen to exmos. A dog may be of some help though. They will allow you anything.

Every action begets a reaction. You are having a reaction from what Mormonism did to you. Your family was the primary conduit for what the church did to you. And thus, their actions have begat another reaction.

The betrayal was enormous and so the reaction is enormous. Other exmos may not understand. Most Mormons are not as extreme as yours and mine.

You don't need anyone to allow you anything. You just have to see that they are bringing their own baggage to their judgement of you and, mostly, this will not be what you want to hear.

Because most people have it stuck in their heads that F A M I L Y
trumps everything. I hate that mindset.


I was always prepared to never see mine again and be fine with it. I didn't confront them too much because I knew that I would be banging my head on a wall. Now go bandage your head.

I will say, agreeing to disagree sucks. Big time.

You gotta do what you gotta do and you are. No judgement from me.

[Adult Language]

Good for you!!

For me, as I grew older, I realized that life was too short to have toxic relationships, AND....that just because family was blood, that didn't give them a pass to treat me like shit.

I didn't cut my parents off due to religious/church differences, I cut them off because they were assholes. With my mother...she never approved of my wife and treated her poorly over the course of my 19-year marriage. When I told her I was divorcing she offered me (what turned out to be) fake support. When the divorce was final, she then threw her support behind my ex. The last straw for me was when I discovered that she was advising and conspiring with my ex to put distance between my kids and I.

With my father, I maintained a relationship with after dumping my mother because I was involved in a family business. The final straw with him was during a critical time in my life and I approached him for a portion of the $50,000 that the business owed me. He dragged me over the coals to get MY money. At one point I told him that I would lose the house and me and the kids would be out on the street. His response was, "That might not be a bad lesson for you to learn". As I drove away with check in hand, I vowed to have as little contact as possible with him from then on.

I didn't make some big announcement that I was done with them, I just went "radio silent". I believe my mother realized what she had done and didn't reach out to me for a year. Then one day I got a X-mas gift and card from her. The card started off saying, "A lot of water has gone under the bridge..." There was no apology whatsoever. I sent the gift back with my own note that started off with, "Not under MY bridge..." I had no contact with her for the last four years of her life. I understand she contracted leukemia and suffered her last year. When she was on her death bed I was on a golf course and got a call from my ex telling me the hospital she was in and that I should visit her one last time. When I hung up the phone my golf partner asked if everything was alright. I said, "Yeah...my mother is going to die in a few hours. How far out from the pin do you think we are? 150 yards?"

The family business sold a couple years later, and from that point on I had ZERO contact with my father for the last four years of his life. I understand he would ask family and friends about me but they had no info for him.

I went to my mother's funeral at the request of my father. You know...gotta keep up that Mormon family image. I was the only one there with dry eyes...I had mourned the death of our relationship years before. I didn't attend my father's funeral...wasn't invited. They did me a favor. There are those out there who will say, "Oh, you should go to their funerals. You will regret not going for the rest of your life." Tell those people to go f**k themselves. That is pure BULLSHIT!! What I do regret for the rest of my life is going to my mother's.

If you are truly going to cut family off, you have to be committed to it...not wishy washy. I asked myself, "If they came down with an illness or facing death, would I run to the hospital to be by their side?" If the answer is yes, you are not serious about cutting them out of your life. Stop your bullshit and repair your relationship. There is middle ground I suppose...I guess you could "take a break" from each other. But you have to ask yourself, if maintaining a relationship requires you both to walk on eggshells...do you really have a relationship?? I mean...really??

After getting out of a shitty marriage, dumping the church, and leaving my toxic family relationships in my rear view mirror...life IMMEDIATELY got a whole lot better!! The thought of being reunited with my parents/family in the hereafter for eternity would match my definition of HELL!! If the church turns out to be true, and upon death I am greeted by my parents/family, they will be met with the "sure sign" of my middle finger and a hearty "F**K YOU!!".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 03:45PM by Tevai.

My hat is off to you. So is my crown of thorns. Thanks for that.

You blow me away with the clarity and the resolve you have shown in claiming yourself. Your parents behavior disgusts me. The part about whether to go to funerals is pure gold.

No criticism here. Your father is an imbecile. Most of your family sounds like a cancer that needs to be excised, just as mormonism was.

It's damn near impossible to heal when others continue to pick at your scabs, trying to open them back up again. Forever family my ass. Forever no contact is more appealing.

"Listen, 'Dad,' even if your Celestial Kingdom is real, I don't even want to be at your stupid judgmental 'family table.' Being around assclowns like you for eternity would be pure hell. You're not worth it. F*** your cult and f*** you."

The mafia is sometimes called the Family. Family can be like a pair of mafia concrete overshoes, drowning you in the depths.

There comes a time when in order to preserve your sanity you must remove yourself from an environment.
I reached that point several years ago and have, in so far as possible, removed my self from Mormon emvironment.
Due to my housing arrangements however I find it in my best interest to keep up the facade of membership.
Do I believe? Of course not.
Will I endanger my physical wellbeing by loudly proclainming it? Again, Of course not!
I intend to be just as deceptive as they are so long as I percieve it to be in my best interest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 11:39AM by thedesertrat1.

"sacred the bejesus"

I like it. Sounds like a good exmo metal band name.

Sacred the Bejesus and the Sons of Perdition
Coming to you live from Mormon hell.

LOL!

"are you allowed"

Who or what is doing the allowing?

I’m trying to rid myself of that sort of thinking, because as you point out it’s not rational. There is nothing with that kind of authority or power over me.

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is nothing with that kind of
> authority or power over me.

Good for you. The only power over you is the cosmos in bringing you here and taking you away.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "are you allowed"
>
> Who or what is doing the allowing?


Yup. My first thought when reading the question was, "Whenever you want."

That's totally opposite of what authoritarian systems try to pound into us, of course.

Cold-Dodger: "I get criticism from exmos about how I've been treating my folks."

That really surprises me. You'd think they'd understand more than anyone else.


Cold-Dodger re parents:

"These people have wounded me over many years."

"I hate that they damaged me trying too hard to make and keep me Mormon. The emotional abuse drove me away."

"The cold shoulders and prejudice drove me away. The arrogant willful stupidity drove me away."

"The church was half of the reason I had PTSD. They're the other half."

Any one of the above is more than enough for you to have decided to stay away from your parents. It's hard to accept, or live with, criticism from others who judge you for your decision to separate, for your own well-being. In some situations that is the only way to survive, often literally. First responders/medical personnel well know the principle that first you have to look after yourself, then you can help others. That applies to being both on and off duty. It's a good principle for everyone in all situations and it applies to both physical and mental health.

In many cases there is extra difficulty in breaking off contact with a parent, and more sequelae than with other relationships due to the personal history and more complex emotions involved. It can make the decision more difficult even when there is ample reason to choose to break it off.

It's very sad that this can happen in the first and one of the most fundamental relationships in our lives but for one's own good it is often the only way forward. Religion can most definitely complicate the whole thing. In the case of all-or-nothing-type faiths such as Mormonism, unfortunately complete separation is often the only reasonable choice.

Cold-Dodger: "It's been quiet and lonely for several months, and it's almost been boring."

Sorry, this made me chuckle. I've been thinking that about the pandemic, with the relative isolation we've experienced, that it sounded awful at first but turned out for many of us to have upsides. I've never spent so much time alone in my whole life. Fortunately, I quite like myself. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be a challenge. It's been a chance to slow down, relax, get things done that have been long-neglected and enjoy quieter pastimes for a while. Turns out that 'boring' isn't the horror people envision it to be.

CD: "I like it. No drama. No catastrophes. No anxiety. It is nice. I'm carefully choosing who I let into my life and my social media feed. I've given up trying to convince anybody of anything who does not want to hear it from me."

Sounds perfect.

C-D, sometimes you can find a work-around for significant differences between you and others. Sometimes you can't. My mom and I were on opposite ends of the spectrum politically, but we made it work. We didn't have any significant religious differences, and I always felt that she respected me and vice-versa.

IMO what you have perceived as criticism from exmos is just other people asking if you could have found such a work-around. But you know your situation best, and we do know that you tried over many years to make it work. If you have to go radio silent for your peace of mind, then that's what you need to do.

The one thing that I would encourage you to do is to create your own loving family. Find someone to love and create a home and haven of your own if you possibly can. Friends are all well and good, but there is no substitute for family (even if you have to create one of your own.) JMO.

It’s not so much what the church thinks. It’s what does my family think? What do my friends think? What does my spouse think? What does my employer think? What do my customers think?

Sometimes crossing the line has huge costs.

I think you've come to your own conclusions about what is best for you. That's the only person you need to convince.

You sound like you are doing the right thing...

Cut them off (like you were both in traffic)-

Any time is the time

Better sooner than later