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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 03:36AM

“It is folly for a man to pray to the gods for that which he has the power to obtain by himself.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/19/ivermectin-horse-dewormer-owners-covid/

Equine ivermectin comes in small tubes and syringes and helps eliminate “many types of worms,” often for less than $10. And lately, it’s been hard to find.

Amid the recent clamor for the deworming agent — commonly used on horses, livestock and sometimes dogs and cats — as an unproven covid-19 treatment for humans, people who need to treat their horses with the substance have been faced with empty shelves and the fear that they could be mistaken for the people who are using the drug on themselves.

A syringe of ivermectin paste sold online by QC Supply, a Nebraska-based livestock supply distributor, works on pinworms, hairworms, largemouth stomach worms and more. Each syringe can treat a horse weighing up to 1,250 pounds. But the dewormer is out of stock.

Still, the product remains on the site with the warning: “For Oral Use In Horses Only.”


Equine ivermectin comes in small tubes and syringes and helps eliminate “many types of worms,” often for less than $10. And lately, it’s been hard to find.

Amid the recent clamor for the deworming agent — commonly used on horses, livestock and sometimes dogs and cats — as an unproven covid-19 treatment for humans, people who need to treat their horses with the substance have been faced with empty shelves and the fear that they could be mistaken for the people who are using the drug on themselves.


A syringe of ivermectin paste sold online by QC Supply, a Nebraska-based livestock supply distributor, works on pinworms, hairworms, largemouth stomach worms and more. Each syringe can treat a horse weighing up to 1,250 pounds. But the dewormer is out of stock.

Still, the product remains on the site with the warning: “For Oral Use In Horses Only.”


Some horse owners who have been able to find ivermectin in stock have seen higher prices due to “all this ivermectin craziness,” as one equine forum poster put it — and extra hurdles in buying it.

“There was an immediate frustration expressed by retailers who felt it was necessary to re-shelve ivermectin labeled products behind counters or locked in cases,” said Cliff Williamson, director of health and regulatory affairs at the American Horse Council. “Shoppers now go through extra steps to obtain equine medication.”

In Las Vegas, V&V Tack and Feed enacted a new requirement for customers trying to buy ivermectin, according to local media reports. The store posted a sign that the drug would only be sold to horse owners. “MUST SHOW A PIC OF YOU AND YOUR HORSE,” the sign read.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 08:55AM

A friend of mine who rides horses told me about this. I think that it may be that Ivermectin needs to be more controlled, such as some businesses are already doing, i.e. put it behind the counter, sell limited quantities only with I.D. and proof of horse/cattle ownership, etc. Or, it may need to go to prescription (from a vet) only.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 11:31AM

for COVID, so it is prescribed for it, but I certainly wouldn't go out and get some and dose myself.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 12:23PM

It's one thing if a physician or PCP prescribes it off-label. I personally feel that the evidence for its effectiveness in treating Covid is weak at best, but at least you have a trained and licensed medical professional signing off on the medicine and the dosage. I think it's quite another if people go to a feed store or order it off the internet for their own use.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 12:54PM

Drinking sheep drench or eating horse paste will *not* cure you of COVID-19.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

Indications and Usage for STROMECTOL® (ivermectin)

Ivermectin is approved in the United States under the brand name STROMECTOL. STROMECTOL is indicated for the treatment of intestinal (i.e., nondisseminated) strongyloidiasis due to the nematode parasite Strongyloides stercoralis and for the treatment of onchocerciasis due to the nematode parasite Onchocerca volvulus.



https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ivermectin-treat-covid-19-coronavirus-3535912/


Ivermectin is not FDA approved to treat COVID-19 patients. Ivermectin should only be used in patients for COVID-19 treatment in a research setting, as part of a clinical trial.

Ivermectin products that are approved for use in animals should NOT be taken by humans. Veterinary products are formulated to treat large animals and contain far higher levels of ivermectin than products approved for human use.

An in vitro trial has shown ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours. An in vitro study is when they study cells in a laboratory and not in a living organism.
Clinical trials have been conducted on people to test how well ivermectin works against COVID-19. This is in vivo testing. Currently there is a low level of certainty whether ivermectin helps treat COVID-19 and more studies are needed.
Ivermectin tablets are currently a FDA approved medicine for treatment of intestinal parasitic worms, parasitic diseases, Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus.
Invermectin has been established as safe for use in humans, but only at the recommended dosage level.
SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2) is the virus that causes COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019)

What is Ivermectin?

Ivermectin is a medicine currently used to treat parasite infections such as intestinal worms, lice and mites.
Recently ivermectin has also been studied to treat a range of viruses.

How is Ivermectin thought to work on COVID-19?

For the SARS-CoV-2 virus to make you sick, it has to first infect your cells.
Then while inside the cell, the virus makes heaps of copies of itself, so it can spread around your body.
The virus also has ways of reducing the way your body fights the infection.
During the infection of the cell, some viral proteins go into the cell nucleus, and from here they can decrease the body’s ability to fight the virus, which means the infection can get worse.
To get into the nucleus the viral proteins need to bind a cargo transporter which lets them in.
Ivermectin can block the cargo transporter, so the viral proteins can’t get into the nucleus. This is how the scientists believe Ivermectin works against SARS-CoV-2 virus.
By taking Ivermectin, it means the body can fight the infection like normal, because its antiviral response hasn’t been reduced by the viral proteins.

Is Ivermectin an approved medicine by the FDA?

Ivermectin tablets (Stromectol) are an approved by the FDA for use in intestinal worms Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus.

Ivermectin cream 1% (Soolantra) is FDA approved for rosacea.

Ivermectin is not FDA approved to treat COVID-19.

Ivermectin tablets are also used off-label for a number of other conditions.

Ivermectin intended for animal use should not be taken by humans.

STROMECTOL has no activity against adult Onchocerca volvulus parasites.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:21PM

anybody said:

"For the SARS-CoV-2 virus to make you sick, it has to first infect your cells.

"Then while inside the cell, the virus makes heaps of copies of itself, so it can spread around your body.
The virus also has ways of reducing the way your body fights the infection.

"During the infection of the cell, some viral proteins go into the cell nucleus, and from here they can decrease the body’s ability to fight the virus, which means the infection can get worse.

"To get into the nucleus the viral proteins need to bind a cargo transporter which lets them in.

"Ivermectin can block the cargo transporter, so the viral proteins can’t get into the nucleus. This is how the scientists believe Ivermectin works against SARS-CoV-2 virus.

"By taking Ivermectin, it means the body can fight the infection like normal, because its antiviral response hasn’t been reduced by the viral proteins."

----------

Perhaps it's this type of information that some people read and misunderstand or misuse. In isolation, in places, it can sound like Ivermectin *is* effective against CV. ("Hey, it says this is how it works against COVID". "It says the body can fight the infection like normal.") But you have to (1) understand what you're reading; (2) apply the information accurately to a different situation than the precise one being discussed; (3) understand your own limitations in scientific and medical education unless you are an expert in the relevant fields and have specific accurate knowledge of the subject under discussion; (4) follow your own physician's advice for yourself and your minor children, if any; (5) make decisions based on proven facts; (6) check and double-check your sources of information; and (7) last but not least, be rational.

Do you take Aspirin to cure malaria? (No - you can take anti-malarials to try and prevent it and you're prescribed anti-malarials if you contract it). Do you take Tylenol for smallpox? (No - there's no known cure for smallpox; it's supportive treatment only after infection but, of course, there's also a vaccination for prevention).

Rational. Thinking.

There should be a song for that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 01:25PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:31PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Rational. Thinking.
>
> There should be a song for that.

Which is why this subject has to do with Mormonism, cults, and religion.

Cults like Mormonism and white nationalist Evangelicalism break down reason and the capacity for critical thinking and make people susceptible to lies, frauds, propaganda, and misinformation.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 12:37PM

Prescribed by who? It's not on the approved verified Rx list for CV as far as I know.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:06PM

I have ivermectin right now prescribed to me. Comes in 3mg pills. I took 12mg for 5 days.

If you bought horse paste you would just take a pea size amount.at your own risk to compute the correct amount.

I have awesome insurance so ivermectin is just $10. Cash rate is $35.

Big pharma can not make big money on the drug as it has been around for decades. So the drug is demonized.

India irradiated covid-19 using ivermectin and other drugs for early treatment protocols in a region with very low vaccination rate.

Delete all you want rfm but it is the truth.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:12PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/01/ivermectin-covid-treatment/

Interest in ivermectin as a possible coronavirus treatment was spurred in spring 2020 by an Australian study that found it killed the virus in a lab setting. The cheap and widely available drug — deemed an “essential medicine” by the World Health Organization — has treated parasites in humans and animals for decades so effectively that two scientists won the 2015 Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine for their work on it.

Despite the Australian finding, many scientists doubted that humans could take high enough doses to replicate the effects seen in a lab, and even the researchers behind the study advise against using the drug as a covid-19 treatment outside of clinical trials. But prescriptions skyrocketed in poorer countries last summer, especially in Latin America, as “the medical community took the one-size-fits-all attitude” based on the drug’s price and good safety record, one Brazilian researcher observed.

In the United States, a small but vocal group of doctors called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance has sought to make ivermectin a routine part of both covid-19 prevention and treatment. One founder, Pierre Kory, claimed late last year in testimony to the Senate Homeland Security Committee that new research gave “conclusive data on the profound efficacy” of ivermectin as an intervention at “all stages” of covid-19.

Federal health agencies were not swayed. Noting mixed evidence and problems with the existing studies after a presentation from Kory and his colleagues, a National Institutes of Health committee stopped recommending against the drug as a covid-19 treatment but said there was “insufficient data” to endorse it.

Although dozens of studies on ivermectin are ongoing — including a large, randomized trial of repurposed drugs supported by NIH — one group of researchers who reviewed data from 14 ivermectin studies found that the results so far “cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.” Two authors of the review, Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel of Germany’s University Hospital of Würzburg, told The Washington Post that they recommend against using ivermectin for covid-19 given the lack of evidence, noting that “every drug has side effects.”

George Rutherford, a professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California at San Francisco, spoke with more certainty: “This is a drug that does not work,” he said, comparing those pushing ivermectin as a coronavirus treatment to “19th-century snake-oil salesmen.”

Payne, the Oklahoma hospitalist, said he worries many people are being encouraged to take ivermectin as a “suitable alternative” to vaccination. At one point this summer, he said, about a quarter of his patients arriving at Stillwater Medical Center with covid-19 had been taking the medication. The lack of evidence that ivermectin protects against the coronavirus is a common topic in his evening calls with the families of severely ill covid-19 patients.

“It’s a battle with patients and family members to explain why it’s not recommended to do this,” he said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 01:15PM by anybody.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:41PM

The way things are going, if (and it's a huge if) this drug does get approval in the future for CV (although it doesn't sound like this is going to happen) then I can already hear people saying "see, we told you so". The big huge piece of the whole matter that all too many are squelching or not seeing or comprehending in the first place is the approved and long-used scientific method of testing medications in controlled trials for safety and efficacy. Because ivermectin is not scientifically proven to be effective specifically against COVID-19 and due to abundant data about its potential hazards in humans, it is AT THIS TIME **NOT** recommended for use in preventing or treating COVID-19.

If in the future this changes, well that is the way science works.

I still don't fully comprehend why people suddenly bestow upon themselves the power and insight and education and knowledge to apparently be their own best source and scientist and physician when it comes to a pandemic situation. I, for one, have never witnessed such a phenomenon in my lifetime.

I get that part of the reason for the debacle we're seeing is that one camp is entrenched in their own bubble so they're only hearing and reading information from one side. I heard a US governor being interviewed this morning and man, he talked a lot but didn't answer specific questions. I guess he could be influential enough to keep case numbers in his state at their current high level as he rails against everything and everybody except those who refuse to be vaccinated and he makes it all so political. To all too many people, he obviously sounds believable. Astronomically tragic situation all 'round.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 02:47PM

There you go again, bringing evidence to a faith fight.

Some people never learn. . .

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 03:12PM

or, in this particular case, one thinker amongst the deluded...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 03:28PM

What are the odds of that? If I went to a snake-handling cult and told them their beliefs were asinine, would I convert anyone?

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 03:43PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 04:27PM

Yeah, I know. I do the same thing for the same reason.

It's the triumph of hope over experience with those who look to politicians for their medical advice.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 03:50PM

Yes, I get it.

But I still differentiate between those who are vaccine-resistant and those who are hesitant (maybe have questions yet unanswered to their satisfaction). I think that many in the latter group could be reachable.

In BC and other provinces in Canada we're seeing that the newly-implemented vaccine cards are causing upticks in numbers of people seeking vaccinations. The vaccine cards are needed to show proof of double-vax before being admitted to numerous non-essential venues, such as restaurants, theatres, bars, gyms and other businesses open at this time.

For those who shudder at the thought of too-far-reaching govt control, the cards are temporary and are being used as a means to control transmission of the virus. It means I can meet my sister for lunch today at a restaurant and know that 100% of staff and customers are vaxxed, making it safer for all of us. The mask mandate remains also and it's only due to the card and the mask that more businesses can be open and we are able to go out and about with a little more assurance that we're as safe as possible and are also keeping others safe.

I remember back before the vaccines were available and we hardly went out at all - only for groceries, basically. This is a vast and very welcome improvement.

In fact, I'm even going to a political event today (outside in fresh (but wet!) air, restricted capacity) before sis and I go for our weekly meal together.

So, I'll take it, whatever reasons people have for getting vaxxed. The concept is so simple - I continue to hold out hope that one or more of the measures taken will prompt more and more to get their jab. Life is better with than without. For sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 03:52PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:42PM

LOL. You can get the vaccine FREE. There's 10 bucks wasted. Don't forget to save up for your fake fraudulent vaccine card that the rest of us got FREE.

Even more hilarious is that the same people who bitched about the vaccine not "approved" by the FDA are gung ho for things not standardized by FDA approved trials.

Bizarre.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 01:46PM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Bizarre.

Absolutely.

The anti-logic of it all is doing my head in.

Even if you're wrong, please be consistently wrong or is that too much to ask? (eg - as dagny and others have pointed out: It's not FDA-approved so I'm not taking it. It's FDA-approved, I'm still not taking it). Say whaaaaaaaatttt???

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 02:21PM

several rehabilitation clinics where patients are sent for longer term care. They are usually above 60 years of age. I also type hospitals.

These are doctors who are giving ivermectin to patients. I was surprised when I heard it was something for horses from reading on here. I hadn't heard that until the subject came up in Rolling Stone was it?

I type up hydroxychloroquine quite often. I also take it for rheumatoid arthritis and for the first time in years I can type without pain. My boss takes it for lupus.

But, yes, ivermectin is something doctors do prescribe.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 19, 2021 02:49PM

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I type up hydroxychloroquine quite often. I also
> take it for rheumatoid arthritis and for the first
> time in years I can type without pain. My boss
> takes it for lupus.

Yes, it has medical applications. I'm glad it's helping your hands - very important in the work that you and I both do.


> But, yes, ivermectin is something doctors do
> prescribe.

Yes, I realize they do. The question is for what. In my comments above I'm saying that I haven't heard that it has been recommended in the treatment of CV and anybody's information posted above backs that up.

Who, what, where, why and when remain crucial questions we should ask about such important issues.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 20, 2021 12:24PM

And maybe still did. I don't remember. But I do know that ones with COVID end up in the rehab places as they are I suppose no longer critical, but they were old people in rehab places that were prescribed ivermectin.

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