a cable channel. I was sickened. I think the scientologists have it worse than mormons. I remember looking for some place in CA and I can't remember what we were looking for and we went by one of scientologist's huge buildings. It was blue. It looked creepy. And when I head down Sardine Canyon into Brigham City from Cache Valley (I grew up in Brigham City) and I see that temple, I think it looks like a scientology building.
That is one insane religion and abusive, too. I didn't know she had a podcast. I'm going to have to listen.
cl2notloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That is one insane religion and abusive, too.
I don't think that there are many religions that aren't abusive. It is not like a common belief shared among egalitarian people living together to make a living where details in beliefs will vary and no one will care.
Religions require a shared worldview among people who have differing view points of the world.
The reason I ended up on RFM is that I was initially an active member on an anti-scientologist forum (Operation Clambake). One of the posters there was a guy with the pseudonym Ned Ludd who was an exmo and wanted to find out the details of the harms of scientology, in a sort of "the cult next door" kind of way. He mentioned this site, I came here - and my work promptly blocked my access to Operation Clambake. Fascinated by what I discovered here (the mindf*ck of mormonism, the community of exmos here, the wide ranging debates...).
I was (and remain, but less actively) an anti-scientologist because I was in early contact with its "ideas" (which are arrant nonsense but appeal to a certain type of person - many of whom have the highest of motives, but poor instincts...). One of my friends at boarding school (not the brightest and a little bit emotionally lost) was very rich and fell into their hands. He's still in 45 years later (and quite high up). He's no longer rich.
From my perspective, scientology is without doubt weirder than mormonism, if only because mormonism is at least connected (usually through Smithian plagiarism ;-) to existing, familiar currents of religious thought (christianity, the occult, etc.). Scientology is pompously phrased BS with invented "concepts" for which they hijack words and language - a clear sign of a cult.
There are also differences simply because of mormonism's age: the Scientos are into their third generation of BICs, whereas mormonism is several past that (you all probably know how many...).
Although both "religions" were founded for the very same reason (to bilk the faithful), mormonism has always been more of a religion than scientology because of its claimed "restoration" of christianity, giving it a known frame of reference, despite its deviations.
Scientology is only a religion for fiscal purposes, although it also uses the "cult" model - and the only frame of reference is whatever passed through the drugg-addled, psychopathic mind of L. Ron Hubbard.
Mormonism has at least some connection to our shared culture and history.
Fascinated to know that about you and like your breakdown. Scientology is so blatantly just a money making machine for their upper tier. Mormonism tends to attempt to hide the fact--not necessary to do it too well though since the TBM's, like Scientologists will buy anything.
When I was a kid I remember clearly my father, the then bishop, was intensely reading L.Ron Hubbard's book, Dianetics, and finding a lot of it inspiring. I was too young to be curious about it, but did note his interest in the book and only remembered it years later. I have always wondered if any Mormons beside him were into the book and took anything from it. After that Dad read Talmage's "Jesus the Christ" non-stop the rest of his life---with a few Louis L'Amour novels sprinkled in.
Done & Done Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > After that Dad read > Talmage's "Jesus the Christ" non-stop the rest of > his life---with a few Louis L'Amour novels > sprinkled in.
Done & Done Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have always wondered > if any Mormons beside him were into the book and > took anything from it.
Probably not too many but I was interested in it on my mission when I found a copy in the apartment. Both my companion and I read it. We had a rough end of our time together because I refused to attempt to "clear" him. I thought and still do that the whole engrams concept a bit on the absurd side. I get that memories play into my reality as I'm experiencing it now, but the way Dianetics told it memories from my birth are involved. I don't buy that. Humans are much more resilient and adaptive to that that kind of creature.
You are the only other Mormon I know of the that looked at it. On my mission they were all busy reading Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence Enemies." I didn't read but could tell when they were practicing his tricks on me.
I briefly knew of a few people years ago who joined Scientology. One couple took out loans to give to the church. I guess to get their lessons. I'll bet the only "clear" they got was cleared out of their cash---still owing the bank.
It's bizarre, but my very LDS father, who collected great books but never read any, had a copy of Dianetics in our basement. I have no idea how he obtained it.
I remember Dale Carnegie--my aforementioned dad sent it--and I read the book early in my mission. It was appalling: superficial, glib, insincere. It meshed well with the religion we were practicing and preaching, so it reinforced my nascent revulsion at the whole mission concept.
I spent the next year wishing for sincerity, genuineness, honesty. I found it in a couple of companions but not in the mission or the church. Numbers, numbers, numbers. . .
Very interesting Tom. (I'd love to see more posts from you of the lengthier kind!)
I agree with you that Scientology is only a scam, not even a religion. I've written here recently of a friend's son who joined as a young adult. He spent a year with them in England (being indoctrinated, in my view). His mom is at her wit's end because of all the $$$ he's given them. Currently he's making tons of money in a lucrative job he happened to land in and I don't even want to know how much of it he forks over to them.
It frustrates me when I see people caught up in such groups, to their own detriment. It really helps me to figure out from posts like yours how this happens.
I'm definitely not equipped, nor do I have the heart, to debate his beliefs with him. He is entirely unreachable, at least at this point. He's a rabid anti re all the pandemic measures undertaken to curb spread of the disease. Yet he finally acceded to getting jabbed or he would have lost his job as they instituted strict measures in order to be able to carry on their projects. Lucky for him he is at least that sensible because now he's protected from significant illness (should he become infected) if only due to his financial interests. Which, annoyingly, also align with those of Scientology.
And it's all courtesy of America's hands off policy on religion. All you have to do is say you are one and then not paying taxes is only part of your Carte Blanche life gifted by Uncle Sam who never bothered to look these words up in the dictionary:
I thought this was going to be about Leah in the Bible. That wonderful story of her giving her husband her sister and her handmaids to sleep with. What a gal! Good way to go if you can't divorce the old fool.