Not one senine, seon, shum or limnah has ever been found -- nor ever will be.

"The Book Of Mormon" is fake.

That's the truth.

Too bad.

Sorry... :)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-59151380

Metal detectorists unearthed the largest hoard of Anglo-Saxon gold coins to be found in England, it has emerged.

Four gold objects were discovered with 131 coins in a field in west Norfolk, most by the same detectorist who notified the appropriate authorities.

Ten coins were found by a serving police officer who tried to sell them and was jailed for 16 months.

A treasure inquest has been opened into the "internationally-significant" find, which Norwich Castle hopes to acquire.

Gareth Williams, curator of early medieval coins at the British Museum, said the "hugely important find", which dates to the same era as the Sutton Hoo ship burial near Woodbridge in Suffolk, is "the largest coin hoard of the period known to date".

Would it be fair to say you are using numismatics to offer a sub-limnah-l argument against the veracity of the Book of Mormon?

Very clever, LW.

Interesting article - thanks anybody!

And very good point about the Mormon horde or lack thereof.

Unfortunately, mormons correctly state that the book of mormon does not say that they used coins. Just weights.

I've read that before but find it unpersuasive.


---------------------
Alma 11 says:

3 And the judge received for his wages aaccording to his time—a bsenine of gold for a day, or a senum of silver, which is equal to a senine of gold; and this is according to the law which was given.

4 Now these are the names of the different pieces of their gold, and of their silver, according to their value.


-----------------
So we have a "piece of gold" or a "piece of Silver" whose value is set either by reference to the specie itself or to some other commodity. That is of course how most early coinages worked, like the shekel or the pound sterling; and the US dollar, which was initially a piece of metal whose value was equal to a set quantity of the underlying commodity. Moreover later in the evolution of the dollar and other currencies, the coin ceased being pure specie but was tied by statute to a set volume of gold or silver.

Thus through the middle of the 20th century the value of a "piece of metal," like those described in the BoM, was defined as a pre-determined amount of gold. That is exactly how Alma says the Nephite system worked.

It thus appears that the Mormons who deny the reality of that coinage don't understand how coins worked before the invention of fiat currency. And that shouldn't be too surprising. JS and Orson Pratt and Talmage and the others who revised the BoM and wrote the chapter headings knew how coinage operated in the US in their day and described it as such. A lot of modern people don't know that history.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2021 01:32AM by Lot's Wife.

The 2nd edition (1981) of the BOM student manual (BYU religion class) specifically mentions coins in its discussion of Alma 11. Those manuals were vetted and approved by the CES.

"The following chart shows the relative value of silver and gold coins under the system set up by Mosiah."

[succeeding table: col. 1, silver money; col. 2, gold money equivalent; col. 3, grain equivalent]

The current online edition, of course, doesn't mention the weights and measures at all. Too much meat, I suppose.

Here's an interesting discussion on the question. According to the site, the LDS church didn't remove the direct reference to coinage until about 2013. The intellectual weight behind the argument that Alma is not describing coins was provided by two of my favorite entertainers, Daniel Peterson and Michael Griffith, whom I rank right up there with our beloved EOD.

But were those two scholars and their recondite analysis the reason for the reformulation of Mormon claims? The article intimates that they were not. To the contrary, the change in the heading was designed to explain away the dearth of Nephite coins in American archaeology. That seems plausible to me, particularly because the Alma account of coinage is entirely consistent with, well, coinage.



https://www.mrm.org/coins

Right. MRM is talking here about the BOM chapter headings. The pre-1981 BOM headings ("Nephite coins and measures") were written by Talmage. The 1981 BOM (I have the 1983 printing) chapter headings, unless I'm mistaken, were either personally written by McConkie or directly under his supervision. The Alma 11 chapter heading reads "Nephite coinage set forth."

The MRM essay brings up the student manual separately, which I referenced above.

Griffith: "mistake of modern editing." Oh, those silly unnamed and unauthorized editors. Mormonism: where living apologists (who necessarily speak as men) receive preeminence over dead apostles.

decultified Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism:
> where living apologists (who necessarily speak as
> men) receive preeminence over dead apostles.

Not just dead apostles. The apologists are given precedence over the very scriptures themselves. Read on their own terms, those verses describe coinage in ways that could describe the Pound Sterling and many other numismatic systems.

Clearly the Q15 or their minions decided that the lack of coins in the Americas was embarrassing and had to be suppressed. They might have changed the scripture, as they did with "white and delightsome," but it's easier just to alter the chapter heading. So that's what they did, hoping that it would affect readers' understanding of what the scriptures say.

Of course none of us will be surprised by that mendacity. What's a handful of coins under a bus that has crushed the Book of Abraham and the words of so many prophets?

the vast basement of the rfm administrative control center contains a smithsonian-like repository of all things mormon collected by apostates around the world and sent there to be cataloged, archived and studied ~

there one can peruse the world’s largest collection of ancient lamanite pikes, swords and halberds ~

rows of shelves groan under the weight of wooden chests full of nephite coins ~

other shelves hold glass jars containing specimens of silk, honey, barley and wheat – all from book of mormon times! ~

there is even an ancient aztec mural bearing the very image of the prophet joseph smith, jr. dressed as quetzalcoatl, jr. ~

it is rumored that the basement of the rfm administrative control center has secret tunnels and bunkers containing even more artifacts that only the elite of the exmo hierarchy are allowed to see ~

it is said that deep within this heavily guarded vault the apostates possess such treasures as the shrunken head of brigham young, the lost 116 pages of the book of mormon, and, it is even whispered, the mummified body of realjesus®! ~

> it is said that deep within this heavily guarded
> vault the apostates possess such treasures as the
> shrunken head of brigham young, the lost 116 pages
> of the book of mormon


"You won't believe what's on page 34!"

Nylon Zipper, Essau's Wife, NightinSquall, winterspringSummerfall, and BrotherofJerryNotJared have been sitting this secret for years. Now TBMs the world over will be asking to come and view these faith-building artifacts to confirm their testionies.

Way to go, Ziller. You're ruined it for all of us.

Just like the seriously addictive "Second Life" non-game some folks must facilitate to maybe try and dodge reality.

The fraud MormØŽism promotes as reality could offer to fill a similar unrealized need we really don't want nor need.

No proof required!

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://venturebeat.com/2021/09/03/the-deanbeat-wi
> ll-the-metaverse-bring-the-second-coming-of-second
> -life/

The day somebody mentions Scientology, Jehovahs Witnesses or the LDS church (small C) and I get to say, "I didn't know that they were still around! " will be a big smiling day.

I'm definitely going to use that one, thanks ..

More than coincidence ?


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/51/f1/4451f15968593088d90431a32263b02a.gif

Where's Bleedin' Gums Murphy when you need him?