My sister is very brainwashed. Half her children have left the church because it easily can be proven a fraud but she just tunes her children and me out. My sister is an educated and intelligent person but the church really has a hold on her. She digs in like a stubborn mule and you might as well talk to a wall.

You're answering your own question, ya know?

You dids't say talking to your sister is like talking to a wall, right?

So maybe, until something significant changes that could be where things might be stuck, for the time being.

Sometimes the uncomfortable Double-Bind that may or may not pop up, produces change. Right now her needs, her main needs might be met by the LD$ church.

Some people give good reason why or how things changed.

https://youtu.be/4XA6T3EMkWE

My sister has always been very TBM. My parents were liberal Mormons. We went to church. My parents enjoyed the social aspects of it but we weren’t pressured to serve missions or read scriptures at home. I never saw my parents ever read the scriptures or even the Ensign at home. I remember my sister chastising my mom because our family wasn’t doing all the church things we needed to be doing.

Of course my sister goes and serves a mission and was the only of my siblings to do so. What she got from the mission was parasites and later cancer from a contaminated area she served in. Cancer doesn’t run in our family and her mission companion she served with in that area died of cancer.

Anyways I spent some time with her because we both went to a wedding and I did a little probing to see if she’s changed and she’s the same she’s always been. Her inactive children wish she would chill out. Most my nieces and nephews are inactive.

But my sis and her hubby are still big time TBM and they both kind of seem burned out from their callings and all the stuff they are expected to do. They live in a wealthy Salt Lake neighborhood where everything is about keeping up with your neighbors. My sister is obsessed with how her house and yard looks. She’s image conscious to what I would say unhealthy levels.

To be honest. It kind of drives me crazy because she’s so tense all the time because she feels she needs to be perfect. I’m just trying to get her to stop and smell the coffee a bit. Ha! Ha! I guess I’m a missionary for ex Mormonism doing my part.

I don't think that there's much you can do. I would just suggest to be kind to her and to urge her to be kind to herself and to give herself a break. She probably doesn't get a lot of genuine kindness from her church community.

From what you say….nothing you can say will ever change her. Don’t ruin what you have by becoming “the Enemy”.

The ugly truth about the church is only half the battle. Many Mormons just use the inconvenient truths to sharpen their teeth on. Just an opportunity to display even greater faith. My mother and siblings are exhibit A.

She has to find her own way out. The horse won't drink until it's thirsty and your sister *thinks* she's sated.

Leading an admirable life as an exmo drives them crazy. That is about the only gift you can give.

I remember my Mormon self. I was inside a bubble. The bubble is like a glass ball christmas ornament that's silvered inside. I was inside that ball and could only see reflections of what was inside the ball.

When my shelf collapsed, it's like the ball shattered. It's no wonder Mormons will do anything to protect their fragile world.

Mormonism is basically ideological possession. Do you think you could un-brainwash a North Korean?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2021 10:46AM by bradley.

I am an extreme claustrophobic and your metaphor of being trapped inside the Christmas ornament that you can't even see out nearly brought on a panic attack. Very apt comparison for anyone but me. I do so love a good metaphor and that is.

The Mormon church made me feel claustrophobic, constrained, and tied and restricted and every other adjective that stunts growth. I do believe that is why I felt like the freest bird on the planet when I realized the lie. I actually felt a floating feeling--untethered.

Now, the North Korean unbrainwashing? Not so sure that the regular population are not in need of a good mind scrub. I read an account of it being mandatory for people to attend, cry, and wail as the coffin of Kim Jung Il passed by and those who didn't were punished. I don't remember the source and can't say it's true but knowing the situation it is highly likely.

They know to perform as required. Much like the young Mormons who have figured out it isn't true yet but are dependent on parents.

You can't unprogam someone who does not wish to be un-programmed.

For many people, their belief in The Church is the most important thing in their life. If you take that belief away, you might as well take their life away.

Let it be. Show her kindness. Respect her beliefs. Love her but let it be.

I never try to un-brainwash anyone. The truth is all over the internet. If anyone still believes, it is because believing is more important than the truth.

Un-programming techniques will not work.

loislane Wrote:
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> You can't unprogam someone who does not wish to be
> un-programmed.

As the old saying goes, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

So she’s neurotically perfectionist and is keeping local property values high, and is vaguely miserable. That sounds about as American as it gets,

You cannot deal rationally with an irrational person
Not MAY NOT!
CANNOT!!!!

Mostly I listen, I listen enough to let the brainwashed person expel all of their pent-up energy.

Sometimes they even have so much energy to express you may even get some body movements and you could experience t hat they walk away.

Don't follow them, sometimes more room is needed and it doesn't normally hurt to add that requested space. You may have not done anything wrong and could just be some result of this "human condition" we seem to have to deal with from time to time.

Try and maintain your posture, use your resources that might seem to truly build yourself up and try try try to not take things personally.

They may be at the place you were, a long long time ago.

That place that captured you long ago was not fun.

She does want to listen because it impacts everything she has done and stands for. Eternal marriage, blessing of priesthood etc. Its hard to accept that its all bullshit.

One thing that helped my wife was talking to others (not me) about it. If she surrounds herself with TBMs its going to be very difficult, but if she has some friends with Mormon issues it will be easier to get her out of Plato's Cave of denial and get her into the sun. There are also really good Mormon Stories podcasts with people that were very TBM and left.

I think because Mormonism is so tied up in their identity that they take criticism of the church as a personal attack.

The church is their family, apparently run by Uncle Scrooge.

They would have to disentangle their identity from the church to look at the church objectively.

squirrely Wrote:
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> She does want to listen because it impacts
> everything she has done and stands for.


"Hi! I'm from the Well-Intentioned Sibling Foundation. Would you be interested in a three-month presentation on how your entire life has been a waste?"

Probably a trick question. I don't think you can.

Yes, I'm the ye of little faith person.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably a trick question. I don't think you can.
>
> Yes, I'm the ye of little faith person.

No front door access, go in a side door!

nevermindshuttingdowntheentirething ..

and was once in a similar circumstance but the effort became so redundant and predictable as to be BOring and a waste of time.

Got interesting when started to ask:
What is it, about me, that I need/want someone else, to see what I see? What's that about!?

I mean, the outcome of whether the other saw or not was never going to be as critical as when Horton Hears a Who.

Lots of drugs, cocaine and hallucinogens' like payote or a de-neutralizer from the Men in Black. lmao!

I got 3 older brothers all decorated in diplomas and professional stuff, not one damn one of them can rise to the educated class that their accolades pay tribute...and I don't think it is because of their intelligence that they are so stupid. It's got to be pride! They can't make fools of themselves recanting all the stuff they bore witness to and every waking moment they spent to the building up of zion.

Pride makes fools of us all.

You don't.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a proven fraud.

Having acknowledge that—

I believe better wording, especially to a TBM is

The Truth Claims of the LDS Church are a proven fraud.

To many this truth will not matter. In chaos, still waters are welcome, even if an illusion. There’s a lot of chaos these days.