Strange times to be a former/current member of Brigham's Empire.

For instance, reading this made me wonder how such scintillating news compares to the Mormon story about finding 100 billion sitting hidden away?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/plumber-finds-cash-checks-behind-loose-toilet-in-wall-at-joel-osteen-s-lakewood-church/ar-AARqTxl

I guess what comes to mind for me is the fact that Mormonism is a corporate, systematic, systemic bleeding of their sheep and Osteen is more along the lines of the drug lord stuffing bags of cash all over his place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2021 02:48PM by Elder Berry.

First, I'm no fan of Joel Osteen. LDS, Christian Science, and Osteen's doctrine are all "prosperity gospels," which share a common mindset ("If I'm spiritual, God will bless me with health and prosperity") even as their theologies diverge significantly.

Osteen runs a megachurch, which means large sums pass through their accounts--and collections. And there was a report of a $600K shortage or theft in 2015. Considering that the plumber found not only envelopes of cash but also checks, my hunch is that this is those purloined moneys. Somebody in the megachurch staff probably decided to "make his blessing sure" and was stealing from the collection process, caching the money behind a loose tile, and then, for some reason, failed to return and recover it.

So that's my take, pending details from the investigation.

I'll give you a long essay on all sorts of things Osteen can be faulted for, but I doubt this is one of them--except for bad security. This is probably just a simple larceny case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2021 03:17PM by caffiend.

caffiend Wrote:
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> This is one of the reasons
> my Baptist church has no denominational
> affiliation.

Jesus doesn't do denominations, well small denominations like widow mites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2021 03:09PM by Elder Berry.

As you probably noticed, I deleted that post entirely and rewrote. But your point is interesting. Worth considering is that Christ never condemned wealth outright, but did have much to say about how it was acquired, what people did (or didn't do) with it, and that it's seductive and spiritually perilous. His underlying thesis was "stewardship," that it ultimately belongs to God, and we're only the caretakers.

"stewardship,"

I would believe most prosperity believers believe in modern Roman law based understandings with regard to their property and their church's property. That is ownership is "rational, universal, eternal, unwritten and unchanging."

Yet Jesus would have believed entirely differently than his followers.


"In the Roman legal tradition (actually Greco-Roman to be entirely accurate), Hayes explained in her talk, laws would be considered “divine” if they were grounded in reason and the “natural” world. Such laws would be rational, universal, eternal, unwritten and unchanging.
The concept of divine law in Judaism, on the other hand, was very different: It was revealed from a single source (rather than emanating from the natural world), written down, only meant for a specific people (rather than universal) and open to interpretation and change by those human leaders in positions of authority."
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/this-normal-life-roman-vs-jewish-law-388608



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2021 04:34PM by Elder Berry.

When the FBI finally comes in the front door, Joel can dash out the back door with the 600 envelopes of cash.

Two stories from the old testament.

First in Acts. Ananias and Saphira (don't quote me on spelling) with hold some treasures from the church and are struck dead for doing so

Second. The parable of the "talents" where a talent is about 75 pounds or 33 kilos give or take.

The servants that invested and doubled the silver are rewarded. The servant that hid the silver is punished.

Basically. God wants your loot and the results if your labor.

Insurance company will process the reported loss, after all they are the one's that processed the earlier missing donations.

nothingtoseehere

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> ... Mormonism is a corporate, systematic, systemic bleeding of their sheep and Osteen is more along the lines of the drug lord stuffing bags of cash all over his place. >

You assume hiding money one way is better than another?

Don't you put money away for a rainy day?

Elevating Mormonism is repulsive.

Just because it is hidden more cleverly doesn't make it cleaner or more pure.

Mormonism IS like a drug lord because you answer to it and it controls you.

It's hidden everywhere in plain sight.
But NOBODY can find it.

It's already laundered. Pretty and clean,
If y'know what I mean.

I don't see the distinctions.

The distinction.

> ... Mormonism is a corporate, systematic, systemic bleeding of their sheep and Osteen is more along the lines of the drug lord stuffing bags of cash all over his place. >

If you don't see it what can I say? I've not judged on "better" than the other. That was the question for the thread.

Not to defend Osteen, but except for poor cash security, I doubt this reflects on him. It has all the markings of a larcenous insider who grabbed the collection, hid it, and then for some reason failed to retrieve it.

And, not to commend LDS, but they do seem to have a secure cash management system, at least at the ward level. Cash or checks are put in envelopes; the donor marks the disposition of the money, identifies himself by name or membership number, and then drops it in the offering plate. There is then a paper record of that.

I'm sure there are dishonest hands scattered around the ward bishoprics, but the system seems to minimize that.

"corporate, systematic, systemic bleeding of their sheep"

I guess for you is better? What about the 100 billion?

I'm in the wrong racket. I should start a church. Best started in wealthy and religious areas. Florida would be good but I've got to out bullshit the competition there.

Rubicon Wrote:
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> I should start a church.

Lose your soul trying to save others.