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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 03, 2021 04:47PM

https://youtu.be/Tryg5UCp6fI

After watching this video I ordered this author’s book, Life’s Edge: The Search For What It Means To Be Alive”

Both the video and the book attempt to answer the unsettled question, “Are viruses alive?”

To answer it, first you have to answer,”What is life?” Which Schrodinger asked, 70yrs ago.

The definition NASA uses is,”a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution.”

By that definition the answer is, no, viruses are not alive, because they are not ‘self sustaining’ they rely upon their host cells and their neuro/electrical/chemical systems in order to reproduce. Whereas cells reproduce very slowly, viruses reproduce very rapidly, by the hundreds. There are trillions of bacteria inside of us, most of them good, probiotics. Some of them bad, like ecoli. We have a natural defense however, bacteriaPhages, which vastly outnumber bacteria in our bodies and elsewhere on Earth.
They eat 40% of the bacteria in the ocean every day.
If you stacked up all the viruses on Earth, they’d go past the solar system, past our galaxy, past 26 galaxies, make a 200million light year tall stack, one virus wide.
They are arguably responsible for half of our DNA.
They are perhaps the most important creature on the planet, yet they are not ‘alive’ by NASA’s definition.

But theirs is not the only definition. Perhaps a better definition is, ‘A biological system capable of reproduction and evolution.”

It meets that definition precisely and spectacularly, as evidenced by the rapidly evolving Corona Virus.

Perhaps the way to determine if something is alive is to define what makes something not alive?

Are crystals alive? Viruses can form into crystals and survive and reproduce once they are rehydrated.

So can tardigrades.

Were they still ‘alive’ when they were crystallized?

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: December 03, 2021 11:50PM

Can they be alive and dead at the same time?

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 12:15PM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can they be alive and dead at the same time?

Again it depends upon the definition of ‘life’. If we use NASAs definition, viruses are not living. If we use virologists definition,”A biological system capable of reproduction and evolution” then they are alive!
They are an animated organism uniquely able to thrive and reproduce in a realm between living and non-living.
What I find fascinating is what a ‘non-living organism’ is capable of doing. By some mysterious process viruses are capable of hunting down their one particular host and distinguishing it from all the trillions of other hosts, attaching to it, injecting its single helix of RNA into the host, along with tiny motor proteins, who perform genetic surgery on the hosts double helix of DNA to unzip it into two single helixes. They then zipper it’s own single helix of RNA onto a single helix of DNA, forming a Double Helix of DNA, and thus a hybrid organism that is a cross between a living cell and a non-living virus.
This new organism no longer functions like a bacteria or a virus. It’s former life is effectively over and all of its chemical/mechanical/electrical functions are rededicated to fulfill its new program, creating and assembling 100 copies of the parent virus in 24hours, at which point the viruses excrete an enzyme that dissolves the cell membrane, whereupon it explodes, sending bacteria killing ninja zombie robots shooting off in all directions to repeat the process. This is how Phages became the most effective killers on the planet, who kill 40%!of the bacteria in the ocean every day.

https://youtu.be/V73nEGXUeBY

https://youtu.be/FXqmzKwBB_w

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 03, 2021 11:59PM

Which begs the question ... is fire alive ?

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 12:38PM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which begs the question ... is fire alive ?


Perhaps not really until you take those compressed million year old plant deposits (coal) and maybe create live steam?

https://www.explainthatstuff.com/steamengines.html

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 01:03PM

Which begs the question, are rocks alive?

There is no universally agreed upon definition of ‘life’.
Trying to define ‘life’ is one of the more vexing questions of biology.

https://youtu.be/FXqmzKwBB_w



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2021 02:14PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: Joseoh's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 02:13PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which begs the question, are rocks alive?
>
> There is no universally agreed upon definition of
> ‘life’.
> Trying to define ‘life’ is on of the more
> vexing questions of biology.
>
> https://youtu.be/FXqmzKwBB_w

Do you recall pet rocks?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 02:31PM

... and the rest of us aren't. But that's life!


If at any point in time, not one single human being is dancing, ghawd's music will stop playing and we will be escorted off the dance floor. So it is written, so let it be . . .

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 02:39PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... and the rest of us aren't. But that's life!
>
>
> If at any point in time, not one single golf
> ball is rolling, ghawd's music will stop playing
> and we will be escorted off the fairway. So
> it is written, so shall it be . . .

Liberties taken ..

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 02:51PM

. . . Do driving ranges count?

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 03:01PM

I don't know, maybe, you tell me?

https://youtu.be/45xF1C76I88

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 03:39PM

Do I look like a Penn & Teller?

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 03:43PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I look like a Penn & Teller?

Is that who that is?

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Posted by: Joseph's Myth ( )
Date: December 04, 2021 04:00PM

Joseph's Myth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elderolddog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do I look like a Penn & Teller?
>
> Is that who that is?


No, he didn't shave it off!

https://youtu.be/pizH9foFIpg

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 06, 2021 07:07PM

If they are alive, I want to know what religion they are, what god do they worship? Surely you can post a link that explains that!

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 06, 2021 08:42PM

Maybe we had it all backwards.
Maybe, instead of God being a super-human in the sky who protects us from destruction, and created us, perhaps we should have looked in the opposite direction for our creator.
Perhaps we should have been looking at the microbiome inside of us,
viruses in you outnumber human cells 10:1.
They are the tiniest and most successful/ubiquitous biotic agent on the planet.
They arguably programmed 50% of our DNA.
They continue to evolve, outpacing our most brilliant scientists., even though they are not technically ‘alive’ according to NASAs definition.
I think their definition ignores virus.
Which ‘live’ in an alternate way.
Since they carry DNA and RNA, and they carry complex motor proteins that can perform genetic surgery on bacteria, they are animated, they have a nervous system, since they can hunt down and kill 40% of the bacteria in the ocean every day. That seems like that ought to qualify as some sort of ‘life’, just not independently self sustainable.
So they are a better candidate for our creator than Santa inthesky for adults.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 07, 2021 11:00AM

>> ...perhaps we should have looked in the opposite direction for our creator. <<

We did....I think its called primordial ooze or something like that.

And I say this in the name of microbiomes amen.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 07, 2021 12:11PM

You hit me right in the macrames, Roy . . .

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 07, 2021 02:08PM

Hopefully I missed the ceramic parrot!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 07, 2021 04:33PM

The parrot cracked long ago.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 07, 2021 04:35PM

That explains a few things.

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