DW and adult daughter had to set up tables and decorations, so I felt that it was incumbent on me to attend. Short story: It was a goddamn bore, and it would not have passed any sort of muster in any other neighborhood church. They had a team of about 10 middle schoolers read the birth o' Jebus passage from Luke. I cringed when I heard them read, because they all stumbled and stumbled as if they all had problems with dyslexia. But it wasn't that. They just represented the problem we have with our education in the US--they didn't know words, especially any of the ones we seldom use, like "espoused" (read as "Mary his exposed wife") or "lineage" (only God would know what the kid actually replaced it with--I certainly didn't catch it). They could not even sound them out. So not just a bore, but a statement on how bad things have gotten in the states as we back off from making educational demands of our kids. I'll retire to Bedlam.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I felt that it was incumbent on me to attend.


You just wrote about 75 to 85 % of Mormonism in a nutshell...

Because the Elizabethan English the Bible was written in sounds more and more like a foreign language with each passing generation.

one of the things I was very aware of when my twins were born was I wanted them to love reading and so I started reading to them before they were 1 year old. They are both avid readers and know a lot of vocabulary. My son just went through some tests as he had a mental breakdown 1-1/2 years ago and the person doing the tests said she was amazed at his vocabulary.

I always read more than anyone else in my classes in elementary and won an award every year and now I don't read except for here and my work, but I have a stack of books I've purchased.

I believe parents have to teach their kids to love reading, too. My sister, who is a teacher, said she was impressed with how soon I started reading to my kids and wished she had done the same with hers.

But, yes, I think education is failing our kids. I don't have any grandkids and I only want them if my daughter wants any kids. My son doesn't. They are 36.

Education doesn't happen in a vacuum. A lot of times we get parents who do not read to their young childen, who don't teach them colors, numbers, shapes etc., who don't count coins with them for simple purchases, and who barely speak with their children. The parents drop their kids off at school thinking that somehow the teachers can accomplish everything. We can't. It is very difficult for children to pick up advanced vocabulary if they don't hear at least some of it in the home. It's very difficult for children to pick up a love of reading if all they do at home is play electronic games and watch Tik Tok videos.

I have quite a few teachers in my family. My sister teaches first grade and she said when they were doing zoom or whatever they did in Idaho, one of the little girls said that she hadn't had time to read and my sister said, "I don't care if don't do all the other work, just please READ!" She said whoever put their course together gave the first graders too much work.

It does take A LOT of parent involvement. Otherwise, kids don't know that education matters.

Scriptures are hard to read anyway because of how they are written.

We just got our invite to the "neighborhood Christmas party" which said something about keeping Christ in Christmas party. I handed it to my "husband" and told him it was for him. I love how they mark it a neighborhood Christmas party over there at the stake center. I always just toss all their stuff. I'm ready to tell the bishop "too many items left on my door, PLEASE STOP" again.

Right there with you cl2. I read out loud to mine when I was pregnant and never stopped. It was a regular part of my bedtime routine as a child and I carried it on. Give them a bath, read them a story, sing them some songs then lights out. I never had a problem getting them to bed. I still have some of my baby books, in perfect condition. I do anything I can to influence any kid I am around. Readers are Leaders shirts, bookmarks. Talk to them how you can learn anything if you can read. How you have to read to do math, science, everything. Reading is the Golden Key to adventure, fantasy, anything you want. I am THRILLED that digital is so available now. Even donating 100s of paperbacks this house is still stuffed with hardbound I can't give up because I do read them over and over.

Math is a lot harder for me. I did buy a game for a little friend for Christmas that I hope will be good. It's called Buy it Right and teaches about money and how to make change. I really like the science kits they have out now too. It makes it easy to get things that are age appropriate and fun to get their interest. I don't understand people that expect school to teach everything. It takes everyone and anyone that will help! Besides, its fun :)

They are stuck with the KJV but that is hardly a good excuse for poor reading skills. In my experience it is not limited to children nor just to todsy'generation.

There's another obvious thing here, that I equate with Mormonism too (at least the Mormons I know), and that's simple lack of preparation. They don't give a $h|+.

The obvious solution for any "production" is to spend ten minutes rehearsing. Have those 10 kids read it through once or twice in advance, so that they can learn how to pronounce the words in question. Iron out the kinks. But they don't care. The kids may not even know which bit they'll be expected to read before being shoved out in front in front.

As I type this, it occurs to me that some people may actually think it's cute that the kids struggle with the words.

It's just so much easier, in time and expenditure of effort, to simply rely on "The Spirit" to see things through.


ETA: Remember, if you mean well, it might go well! And we all know that ghawd judges you by what's in your heart, not what you actually say and do, which is why mormons don't mind being anti-Gay in their words and deeds. See, ghawd knows that in their hearts, they love everyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2021 05:45PM by elderolddog.

I thought one needed the priesthood in order to set up tables.

No, just to take down and store the folding chairs!

These days they "teach the test." "Espoused" and "lineage" aren't on the test.

And for good reason. They are obscure, if not downright archaic. I could rattle off a dozen words or phrases that people not in the software industry would have trouble with. It wouldn't be because they are uneducated, it would be phrases not germane to their lives.

I know a whole bunch of words now that I would have been unfamiliar with as a sixth grader.

This one is even relevant to Mormonism, but unless you are cursed with total recall and read all my posts, you probably are unfamiliar with it:
apotropaic underwear.

You're bragging about your garments again, aren't you!

In the past, I've taught 6th grade language arts. I wouldn't expect a 6th grader to be familiar with the word "espoused." It is not a common word. If for some reason we did come across it in text, I would probably talk about how it's related to the word, "spouse." We also teach kids to use context clues to figure out words that they don't know. Even adults use context clues!

Also, just because a kid has seen a word doesn't mean that they can say it correctly. There have been plenty of words that I've read in text that I didn't know how to say at first. "Lineage" would probably give most kids pause if they had never heard it before. English is a very difficult language that has a lot of rules, and a lot of words that break the rules.

It seems age appropriate for me for kids to *not* necessarily know these words.

Only the best way to make sweet, sweet love!!!


There once was an apotropaic agenda
Only a believer could a comprenda
'Til a voyeur from Surrey,
Too much in a hurry
YouTubed a video showing the enda

How did yyou know I was from Surrey? ;-)

Cuz of yer “twang”, mate.

You gave it away in a previous post. But as I was born in Sussex, not Kent, I won't hold it against you lol. I have two daughters. One is a Kentish Woman the other a Woman of Kent.

Oh-kaaay--now I know why my daughter's TBM family had all their lights turned off, last night, and were huddled in front of the basement TV with two pizzas! I went to drop off a package for them, and asked them why everything was so dark--was there something wrong with their Christmas lights? They didn't say anything, and just changed the subject....

They have never attended the ward parties. Daughter's TBM ward clerk husband doesn't like them. She tried taking the children to one Christmas party without her husband, and they didn't even stay for the food. because ther was no place for them to sit. LOL!

Since the onset of the pandemic, I feel like I've regressed to those old days of being shunned by all my Mormon neighbors, and most of my Mormon friends and family. It took several years to regain my equillibrium, and realize that those Mormon "friendships" were gone forever.

I had always been an extrovert all through childhood, teens, college, marriage, motherhood, etc--UNTIL I got divorced by my abusive husband, and was judged and marginalized by the Mormons and their mysogynist beliefs.

I became an introvert when I quietly resigned, and it was a relief to me to spend more time with my family, and enjoy my career and colleagues. Eventually, thanks to family members and friends who also quit Mormonism, and new non-Mormon friends,I bounced back to my usual extrovert self. The Mormon definition of The World being "Lone and Dreary", wicked, and lacking in love turned out to be FALSE. My children and I are happy and successful, honest, loving We've had a lot of fun!

Lately, the Covid isolation is causing major flashbacks to the Mormon shunning. We still live in Utah. I feel guilty for being careful, for distancing, for saying "No" to most parties. Some Utahns I know say the pandemic is a downright lie. I refuse to feel bad about protecting myself and my family. I cry when people die. I want those hospital spaces free to be used for people who need surgeries and decent medical care.

Too many of our Utah Mormon neighbors are now having large spreader parties, and they actually are getting sick with Covid. They say the symptoms are "mild" and they can go about their work and shopping as usual! Continuing the spread! They don't believe in masks or quarantines. The anti vaxers were tested only because their job places demanded it, and the school parents put pressure on them to have their kids tested and quarantined. The parents & teachers did this--not the Utah schools. Two of my fully-vaccinated older friends are in the hospital right now, with "breakthrough" cases. Four younger adults friends are OK, and recovering from with their breakthrough illnesses, This is happening right now--yesterday!

Meanwhile, our ward is still having all the usual meetings, with no masks, no distancing, no professional cleaning, and no vaccine for tiny ones. Only one familly wears masks in our ward--and that's my family, who's uncles and grandfather are doctors. We won't go into how the hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc. are effected by the pandemic right now. My grandchildren wear their mask willingly, but they feel uncomfortable and out-of place. They never liked church, anyway.

We have had to to judge and discriminate who is protecting and who is not, and today we have to judge who is vaccinated and who is not--and who is lying about it. I'm mostly concerned about protecting those who are too young. As for me, if I get sick, I can't be around them. If I die of a disease, they will feel guilty, thinking they exposed me to the disease. Nothing is worth that--no party, trip, restaurant meal, concert, amusement park is worth that. Let alone someone being permanently crippled or being sick long-term.

People took the polio vacciene, didn't they? That was also real: I have a cousin and also a close friend who were crippled for life by polio.

So, I wear a mask out in public, still, and probably will, for the rest of my life. My family I see the most, and my best friends are all vaccinated, and we haven't worn masks in our homes--but we are constantly re-evaluating wearing masks with guests. We will have to re-evaluate again after Christmas, and re-re-evaluate again, with each new booster, depending on the latest African strain, which they named: *^!!x#.

Rename the virus strains! Rename the vaccines! Rename the Mormon church! That will change things. It's every man for himself (and their family), relying on knowledge and experience.

Not my doing--but two (normal,non-Mormon) Christmas parties have been cancelled, in the last few days. One party should have been last night, but someone got sick and tested positive for Covid, so all exposed have to be responsible and quarantine for how-long-is-it-now? 10 days, or whatever.

The other party was an extended family Christmas party,for adults, and everyone has been innoculated--except for one cousin who is anti-vax, and won't allow any of his children and grandchildren to get vaxed, either. He also refuses to get anyone tested. He's a stake president, and so self-important that he is giving the rest of the family a hard time about trying to keep him and his adult kids away. Since this sector of my family is half ex-Mormon now, SP is accusing the ex-Mormons of trying to split the family apart from the Mormons! Whew! It is simpler to just not have any party at all.

Lately,the weather has been nice enough for us to be outside, and I've had a few smaller parties on our patio. My sons' patios have padded furniture, firepits, space heaters, big-screen TV, and we watch the games together. We will continue to talk with acquaintances on the phone, text, e-mail, Facetime, arrange Zoom meetings, whatever, and to work from home as much as possible. Fortunately, our offices are well-cleaned, and have company mask and distancing mandates. The businesses are not Utah-owned, and two are privately-owned.

Food is for life, and restraunts and take-outs don't serve the healthiest food anayway--plus it's expensive. My family and I are learning to be better cooks. I've already traveled extensively, and so have my sons and daughters-in-law. All my grandchildren are going to Disneyland (so far)in January, which is probably safer than going to a poorly-ventilated, unsanitized church with unvaccinated, unmasked, un-distanced people. I hope in the future that transportation and lodging will be safe enough for my grandchildren to travel. freely, as I did. We must have faith that human beings will solve problems, and cooperate to make life better, locally and globally.

Otherwise--the Mormons might be right: "Lone and Dreary."

You would think that during a worldwide pandemic, that would be the time that the Mormon church would want their buildings professionally cleaned and sanitized. Even my school system has stepped up building cleaning during the pandemic.

That's what you would think, but they don't want to pay professionals or even get professional quality cleaning supplies that could easily be stored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2021 11:10PM by adoylelb.

Nice post. Nice to hear from someone who really "gets it".

Yup. Just another covid superspreader event.

What a riveting event!

No church funds were squandered. The orange wateraid was room temp.

Boring is wholesome! Fun and enjoyment are of the devil.

BTW, no covid worries. Priesthood, temple attendance, full tithing, and pride in one's humility are the greatest defense against covid possible.

Plenty of MEAT to eat, right?
It is "cold" so Word of Wisdom says it is OK to eat meat.

LOL! Yeah, but what about the Ward pool party with heaps of hotdogs and mountains of hamburger meat?

One time the sacrament bread needed to be blessed 3 times because he could not say it right. If this 16 year old boy would go to church every Sunday he should have it memorized by now. I felt bad for him. He tried hard and he had such a difficult time with it.

Last night, we enjoyed a nice celebration of not having to go there!

We had fun outdoors, during the day, and didn't get home until around 7:00, and saw the cars in the ward house parking lot. We were grateful to relax, and warm up with soup and sandwiches, pajamas, Christmas tree lights, and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. No demands. No cold, picked-over mystery-food. No out-of-control kids, shouting in the half-empty gym.

It's a different church from loong-ago California, that's for sure. We children used to memorize Bible verses and Psalms in Sunday School, which I remember to this day. Personally, the King James language sang to me, like Shakespeare, but I like that sort of thing. My TBM parents made us kids pray in Old English.

No matter what else, The Book of Mormon was always the least favorite of any book I ever read.

Mormons used to have pretty good Christmas parties and other activities but once they had to turn their fundraising into Salt Lake and wards became more tightly governed the fun ended.

The church now is basically a place you go every Sunday to eat some bread, drink some water and hear a rehash of talks from the previous General Conference. Then you discuss what you learned from doing the Come Follow Me program during the week. Then you are reminded to minister to your families you are assigned and to attend the temple.

That's pretty much what the church is now.

We invite friends over for cold cuts/cheese and wine. We play Christmas music and decorate the house up and have a big roaring fire in the fireplace.

When I was young, we always said "And they were sure afraid" for "And they were sore afraid."

I think there is a name for mistakes like that, but I forget what it is.

Recitations of the pledge of allegiance are full of such mis-speaking, "for which it stands," becomes "for witches stan."

And as for lyrics to R&R songs, don't even get me started.

> I think there is a name for mistakes like that,
> but I forget what it is.

Solecism, perchance?

Sentence fragment.

Malapropism.

If it wasn't worth that effort, they should have skipped the whole thing.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... it would not have passed any sort of muster in any other neighborhood church.


... about 10 middle schoolers [tried to] read [MormonStuff]. I cringed when I heard them read, because they all stumbled and stumbled as if they all had problems ... But... They represent the problem we have with our education in the US--they didn't know words... They could not even sound them out. So not just a bore, but a statement on how bad the education problem is.

It isn't just that and it CAN'T (won't) be easily be fixed. 'Multi-fascisted' problem! However-

The PROBLEM is in [parents allowing their children more access to devices than CULTURE, Humanity, Arts, Music, History!, Geography, Nature, the environment!, spirituality And craftsmanship/ quality (vs. fakes, repops, and knock-offs), Religion (including MORMONI$M, and especially Mormonism), cult figures, like Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, etc., And Free-Agency, and the power of choice, and voice - FREE and independent of force, manipulation, change or whims of "leaders".

Like you say, education (parents responsibility/ irresponsibility)/ the U.S. educational system/ the 'CHURCH' (The "Mormon church")...

EVERYBODY is handicapped by their "calling"/ 'official' (calling) capacity, Or Even "by the spirit".

There Are No Leaders in TMC. So, the YOUTH are called (picked) on.

They aren't into it. Why not ASK THEM if there is something, ANYTHING, they would like to add, or do, or share?

Why is there NO SPIRIT in LDS DISfunctions?
Because, it is Sucked Out of The Members, 1 x 1
Until the LAST ONE has no spirit!

It's one of these poor, young, would-be innocent Called-On kids! Not the adults. NO Leadership.

No program, everyone running on fumes. No spirit!
No TRUTH. No morale. No FUN! Merriment! Possibilities! Spontaneity! Smoothness...

The children shouldn't be put on the spot.
That should have fallen on a committee.
Something absent in Mormonism. A VOICE!
A choice! An option! NATURALNESS: Free-Agency

The adults SHOULD HAVE BEEN all dressed up,
Having a Grand Time... NATURALLY
(Something absent in TMC, choice)
[To have a good time] (while you can), Naturally
And the children should have been doing the same
Without Any Interference, torture or humiliation

I think the comprehension problem is down to Americans speaking a "different" version of English more than anything else. If KJ English is difficult what does that say about the survival of Shakespeare? What hope is there for classic poetry which also uses old word forms? To me spoken English coming from the right speaker can be as beautiful as music. Words can have an indescribable beauty in whatever form.

Now during this season one word that grates on my ears is the word shone. I hear it pronounced as SHOWN whereas I always heard it as SHONN. It is Christmas so I will forgive you.

A 2019 study by Jessica Logan, Ohio State university:

Summary:

"Young children whose parents read them five books a day enter kindergarten having heard about 1.4 million more words than kids who were never read to, a new study found. This 'million word gap' could be one key in explaining differences in vocabulary and reading development."

In addition to the number of words heard/learned/understood, the language of reading is in many ways different than oral language.

In oral speech, one seldom hears phrases/vocabulary like in, "He gave a wry smile"; " 'Help me', she exclaimed"; "Once upon a time"; "Alas";

If there is one thing and one thing only that parents could do to help their children achieve reading skills, it is to read regularly to children.

And there are so many good books out there! Even ones that are silly are still good to teach them a love of books and get them engaged. Captain Underpants has a place on the shelf and I still want to find those Bum books. I think it is important for kids to see parents reading too. It should just be a part of your everyday lives.

Yes, I agree that reading to children is the most important thing, and that it is also important for children to see their parents enjoying reading as well.

Susan, one of my former 6th grade students fell in love with one of those book series -- Wimpy Kid, or similar. Once he exhausted what was in my classroom library, I kept buying him books. I later found out that he had persuaded another teacher to buy him books as well. :) He ended up graduating number two in his 8th grade class, and got his choice of high schools to attend. A love of reading really does make a difference.

That was so good of you Summer. They don't pay you enough but that was money well spent. I bet he still is grateful that you did that.

EB those look good. I have a little friend who is big on farts right now. :)

I agree. Kids reading, and seeing adults/ parents read (and not on their phones!).

To quote Mark Twain, as below, "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't".

Parents don't spend enough time with their kids, or at least not teaching manners and habits.

I think you are right but I would couple reading with plenty of writing to emphasize the words and phrases that have been read. My two daughters were educated in American schools and it was a point of contention for me how little they wrote in comparison with my own schooling. Essay (composition as it was called) writing was rare as was comprehension testing.

I am reminded of one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes:

"Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't"

I was raised during the early correlation years of the church. I couldn't remember a lot of the parties save for some primary ones where they had a xmas tree with lights, even Santa handing out candy canes. The church was more social in my early years.

Then came the new bishop. He was a scrooge and felt that Ward Xmas parties ate up his new limited budget. So he didn't plan one. The bishop felt some backlash from prominent ward members so he was forced to have one during his second year as bishop~1985.

I remember his second year because the ym had to set up all the chairs/tables. Then we were hauled off. No one under 18 was permitted to attend. At ym/yw camp at a member's home, There were screaming kids running around. We were forced to write testimonies about the BoM which were glued inside a copy of the BoM for missionaries.

I distinctly recall not getting cookies or hot chocolate because I didn't write out my testimony to be placed in the BoM. Yes, the leaders were furious with me. I was told to wait outside because I brought an evil spirit to their group. We were hauled back to church to clean up. Pack up the tables, chairs and sweep the floors. etc

I later found out that after the adults were whisked into the chapel for the bishop to read his favorite scriptures. He then chastise members for not magnifying their callings and donating $$$ to the church. Then they had a testimony meeting to cement their evening. My Dad was livid about the new bishop and pretty miffed that there was no Xmas tree.

The following year, only my TBM Mom attended. They had a seating chart. No trees or kids again. I wisely hid when the ym leader came to my house. My Mom had a miserable time. As a family we skipped the next two years.

I skipped the rest until I returned from my mission; even playing Santa until church policy was read: Very improper and sacrilegious at a Christ centered event.

Recently, I reviewed a home video recording that my Dad made of my ward's Xmas party. I thought it was nicely done with the primary singing secular holiday music.