There is an analogy, often employed by defenders of the Latter-day Saint faith, when trying to divert attention away from critics of the faith.

(…and to be clear, I have used the names Ford and Chevrolet randomly, for the purposes of the analogy—not as any reflection on the cars or companies in any real sense)

It is some variation of the following:

If you were considering buying a Ford, would you go to the Chevrolet dealership for information?

It is an analogy so flawed it beggars belief that anybody with a capacity to reason would ever propose it.

The more appropriate analogy would be:

If you were considering buying a Ford, and discovered

(i) that 75%[i] of Ford buyers returned their vehicle within the first year, never to buy another Ford, and

(ii) that the Ford corporation was trying to disparage those who returned their cars, saying that there was something wrong with the car owner rather than something wrong with the car, and

(iii) that the Ford corporation did not want potential buyers to know why almost all previous buyers returned their cars…

…would it not be incumbent on you to find out why almost everybody returned their cars, why the car company was disparaging the returners, and what it was that the company did not want you to find out prior to your purchase?



[i] LDS Statistician David Stewart suggest a 20-30% retention rate for new converts (http://cumorah.com/lawoftheharvest.pdf pp. 257-280), and GA Historian Marlin K. Jensen puts it at about 25% (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mormonchurch-idUSTRE80T1CM20120131)

also published here: https://unexaminedfaith.blogspot.com/2022/01/the-ridiculous-car-purchase-analogy.html

But how do you feel about Packards and Ramblers?

Don't forget the Dodge Dart. That was a helluva machine.

BoJ still drives one.

I much prefer the Gremlin.

Ah yes, a worthy auto. Are they the ones that used to explode or was that the Pinto?

That was the Pinto

Oh. . .

Then what made the Gremlin cool?

". . . the Gremlin was also awful to drive, with a heavy six-cylinder motor and choppy, unhappy handling due to the loss of suspension travel in the back. The Gremlin was quicker than other subcompacts but, alas, that only meant you heard the jeers and laughter that much sooner."

You win!

And I never drove a Gremlin, but I always point them out to my daughters when I see one, as typical of the 70s!

The Gremlin was cool, but the Pacer was a regular moon pod!

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1980-AMC-Pacer-27.jpg

Wayne's World! Wayne's World! Excellent!

I drove my grandmother’s Pinto for a while back in the mid 80’s. It had the station wagon back.

I was an Edsel guy from day 1, I still am...

Pushbutton gear change buttons in the steering hub anyone???

That analogy has always seemed especially dumb to me. I can't believe they used it so much.

When you are going to buy, you check all sources available. You ESPECIALLY investigate claims of critics.

First thing I check on Amazon (and other sites) are the one- and two-star reviews. I ignore "It didn't fit in my cabinet" or "I found it too hard to assemble" "wrong color" type one-off reviews and look for critics who found serious fault with the item.

[!], above, please don't call me on my inept attempt at humor! Studebaker and DeSoto were reasonably equivalent. Packard vs. Rambler is comparing caviar to Friskies Ocean Pate.

srichardbellrock (Sri-RichardBellrock?), above, the retention rates you provided at the bottom of your post are interesting. A breakdown between US and foreign (by continent, maybe?) converts would be even more so.

And mormonism is the equivalent of a Rambler (or a Yugo).

There's a great black comedy called "Drowning Mona," a murder mystery sendup. A running gag is that every car (including the police cars) is a Yugo.

Bette Midler, Dany DeVito, Jamie Lee Curtis, Neve Campbell, Will Farrell, a great way to waste a couple of hours.

>A running gag is that every car (including the police cars) is a Yugo

I take it there are no high speed chases.

Black comedy?

I loved it because of its Cinderella-like qualities!

One of my all time favorites....

"I was a battered husband."

Jeph... I get half and none of that 50-50 BS!
Smarty two shoes.

Uh, the International Harvester pickup. Built like a Russian tank. Kept breaking down, too. Not so affectionately known as an Intertrashional.

I drove a Fiat Strada, faded orange; I called it my Ravioli Rocket. It was like a pregnant Yugo. Backfiring problem and ate the alternators and voltage regulators about once a year. Engine died when you took it out of gear and your foot off the accelerator.

Little known fact about Yugo's:
If you put a blown up beach ball in the car, you can blow on the tailpipe, and use the car as a whistle.

We had a 1965 Rambler Marlin. My dad only bought Romney (Mormon) cars (Rambler/American Motors).

The Marlin was something else, even back then. It was somehow cool but weird looking at the time.

There's no need to go ask Ford or Chevy any questions when you are going to buy Ramblers no matter what because of the religious connection.

The Mormon church is unsafe at any speed.

The mormon church is like a "Rolls Canardly."

It ROLLS down hill with falling membership and ridiculous teachings and CAN 'ARDLY get half way up the next hill due to lack of public interest.

Utah Bondo Buggie

I'm somewhat of a Pinto apologist, I bought a used Pinto wagon right at the peak of the explosive gas tank thing. Wagons were of a different design without the problem. My little wagon was gutless but mechanically tough, it was kind of fun, very easy to repair and it got me through the awful recession of the early 80s without bleeding me dry.

I am truly surprised that Falcons, Fairlanes and Mustangs never got a rep for exploding gas tanks, their design was awful, using a rubber coupling between filler neck and tank.

But a Gremlin? Even I had my standards! No thanks!!!

Remember, George Romney was behind the formation of American Motors. He was smart enough to sell in niche markets, once he entered Michigan politics, his successor had dreams of taking the Big Three on which almost killed AMC in the late 60s before they got their hands on Jeep.

Isn’t it necessary to have a flexible connection between the fuel tank and filler opening?

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn’t it necessary to have a flexible connection
> between the fuel tank and filler opening?


It probably is, but mounting the fuel filler with the hose at the center of the rear of the car is probably flirting with disaster. The fuel tank in the above mentioned Fords is also the floor of the trunk. Current fuel tank design and placement is much better.

One of the worst is the Type 1 VW, placing the fuel tank over the driver's lap and adjacent to all of the wiring connections. What could possibly go wrong?

I didn’t realize that the wagon had a different design. I was worried for nothing.

Arkay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm somewhat of a Pinto apologist,


....better than being a MORmON apologist.....


> I am truly surprised that Falcons, Fairlanes and
> Mustangs never got a rep for exploding gas tanks,
> their design was awful, using a rubber coupling
> between filler neck and tank.

that set up is found on many /a lot of cars

> But a Gremlin? Even I had my standards! No
> thanks!!!
>
> Remember, George Romney was behind the formation
> of American Motors. He was smart enough to sell in
> niche markets, once he entered Michigan politics,
> his successor had dreams of taking the Big Three
> on which almost killed AMC in the late 60s before
> they got their hands on Jeep.

...and AMC disappeared into the automotive landscape later anyway..... But do not worry, Mitt Romney still SUCKS.

A flexible connection between Heavenly Father's oracles and the living prophet makes for convenient theological engineering.

There is a bit of logic to the analogy, because disingenuous salesmen tend to lie about the competition, and a buyer wants unbiased information with which to make a decision. But ironically, it’s the Mormons who are the dishonest brokers here. For example, my niece believes she made an informed decision to join TSCC, but her source for all information about other churches is TSCC. All she ever learned is what’s “wrong” with each other church (e.g. “Catholics drink). In other words, they don’t practice what they preach (yet again).

Nova translated in Spanish means: "No Go".

That may be the reason that not too many Novas were sold.

We had a Pinto; no explosions from it, but I did manage to get it in an accident in a parking lot.

If you were considering buying a car, you might test drive various models and check Consumer Reports, but the sales rep's from Momobile would hound you to buy their car before you test drove it, and deny any mechanical problems or recalls, and on top of everything else would tell you that the Momobile had options that other car makers had purposely left off (many of which actually make the car much harder to drive and very high and expensive maintanence), and the Momobile was the only true car, because the inventor of the automobile had personally handed over the blueprints.

It's not about where or from whom you get your information. It's about verifying your information which includes ascertaining that what evidence you do have is the whole picture.

You can get plenty of information and facts from independent sources without going to either Ford or Chevy.

No matter. Chevy, Ford, Brigham Brougham…I own the dealership.

Cal Worthington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No matter. Chevy, Ford, Brigham Brougham…I own
> the dealership.

I agree. Go see Cal!

Fastest way to get tossed out of priest quorm.

I'd never buy a car without a test drive and a thorough look under the hood and detail exam of the body.

Soooooo

Before I get a wife shouldn't I do the same?

A Ford salesperson's job is to sell me a Ford. That's understood when you walk in the door. My job as a consumer is to buy a vehicle that meets my needs. In order to do that, I collect data from disinterested third parties, and discuss my purchase with my mechanic.

"If you were considering buying a Ford, would you go to the Chevrolet dealership for information?"

For those who explore, evaluate, research...the answer is Yes.


For those who are car-maker Fan Boys, uh Fan Girls, er...Fan-NonGenderSpecificBeings who identify differently, I guess that answer could be No

Great twist to that old old analogy!

But at the same time, Mormons dis-respect - denigrate other religions,I remember that from my mission (currently = ?)

Yeah. That is what is particularly galling. Mormons have NO problem telling other people all the problems with other religions.

I'm kinda glad for that, honestly. I think that inborne "no other churches could possibly be true" bias led me to a skepticism that consumed everything once I left the cult. Like, I tried to remain Christian after but I couldn't turn it off, not only objectively the things in Christianity not making sense and being morally wrong, but also the fact that the lies of Mormonism actually were the most sense Christianity could make. I was baffled by the trinity mess, I was offended by the concept of Hell and how easy it is to join the Heaven club by lip service alone, and I was floored that nobody in Christianity knows nor presumes to know what the plan is. Why we're here? What is the purpose of earth and suffering? The rest of Christianity flops around with no legs to stand on. At least with Mormonism, they TRIED to outline a plan, even if ultimately it was all a scam. So, I'm glad that the cult highlighted certain lines in the "Other religions" textbook, so, when I actually went looking for a replacement, I could realize, I really am better off doing it on my own and coming up with my own meaning.

I shudder to think what might have become of me to jump from one delusion to another, to so easily trust someone else to have answers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2022 01:35PM by blackcoatsdaughter.