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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 25, 2022 08:20PM

On the Pope Benedict thread re sexual abuse, here:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2414883

...Lot's Wife wrote: "And this is why Pope Francis won't move forward with a child-friendly policy for the church. There is simply no way that the senior officials could have spent decades in authority in the RCC without knowing about, and helping suppress, various molestation scandals."

The phrase "child-friendly" brought to my mind the ongoing saga of the residential schools in Canada where First Nations children were abused in every conceivable way, bringing immeasurable pain to their families through the generations up to and including this very moment this very day.

The affected communities await still an apology from Pope Francis. He did "grant" an audience to First Nations, Metis and Inuit leaders to discuss the matter, which was to have taken place in December but had to be postponed due to the situation with COVID. It is hoped that the meetings will be a prelude to a papal apology. We'll see.

The apology will be seen in part as a much sought after acknowledgement that indeed the rampant abuses and cultural genocide did occur. As Indigenous representatives have stated, acknowledgment of wrongdoing - "Truth" must come before "Reconciliation" and truth demands an apology from the current head of the Catholic Church, which had a major role in running the residential schools and was responsible for the conduct of the priests and nuns who perpetrated the abuses. (Of course, they were/are personally responsible also for their own actions).

This past summer, an article in The Globe and Mail newspaper, July 6, 2021 stated: “From Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc near Kamloops to Cowessess in Saskatchewan, First Nations have used ground-penetrating radar to find the remains of lost children [buried in mass or unmarked graves]. I’ve mentioned this in previous posts.

I've known about the debacle of residential schools for many years. I thought I was aware of the details. Then, today, in a news article from Global News more details were spelled out, and are even more horrific than I have ever heard before. It is beyond comprehension what was going on in these schools. Other churches were involved, not just the Catholic Church, but they have all issued apologies and made restitution, financially at least. How can you make good to a family for taking their children by force (government mandate) and not returning them alive? Or at least intact? Not having suffered physical, emotional and sexual abuse, the "legacy" of which reverberates for a lifetime and beyond. Some of the main involved churches were Anglican, Methodist and Presbyterian. The Catholic Church is the only one yet to apologize.

Today, from Global News: “An initial sweep of the former grounds of St. Joseph’s Mission Residential School in Williams Lake, B.C., has uncovered 93 possible burial sites [so far].”

https://globalnews.ca/news/8537298/93-possible-burial-sites-former-bc-residential-school-williams-lake/

Excerpts:

“In May, Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc sent shockwaves of grief and anger across the country when it announced the remains of 215 children had been found in an unmarked burial site at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School.

“Between the 1800s and mid-1990s, Canada’s residential school system aimed to “eliminate parental involvement in the intellectual, cultural and spiritual development” of Indigenous children, according to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

“The state- and church-run institutions removed more than 150,000 First Nations, Métis and Inuit children from their families and imprisoned them in schools where many were physically, sexually and spiritually abused.

“Some were also starved as part of scientific experiments on the effects of malnutrition. Many became ill with smallpox, measles, influenza, tuberculosis and other unknown illnesses due to lack of proper care.

“Thousands died and many parents were never told what happened to their children. The harrowing system of assimilation created intergenerational trauma that has had a deep and lasting impact on survivors, their children, relations and communities.

“In 2015, the commission found Canada guilty of “cultural genocide,” and to this day, governments have failed in many ways to meaningfully repair or compensate for the lasting harm.

“This journey has led our investigation team into the darkest recesses of human behaviour,” said Sellars [First Nations spokesperson]. “Our team has recorded not only stories involving the murder and disappearance of children and infants, they have listened to countless stories of systematic torture, starvation, rape and sexual assault of children at St. Joseph’s Mission.”

“According to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, one student died of exposure after trying to escape St. Joseph’s in 1902. Another died and eight others became ill after eating poisonous water hemlock, which parents believed was a response to discipline at the school.

“The First Nation’s investigation, which included deep archival research and extensive interviews with survivors and descendants, also uncovered harrowing stories of gang rape, child molestation, confinement, exposure to extreme conditions, intentional starvation and beatings to the point of unconsciousness. The school also employed child slave labour through the ranch, said Sellars.

“The initial operation of the mission was an industrial school where First Nations’ pupils performed labour-intensive tasks, including serving white children and staff, timber-splitting, cattle-rearing, farming and sewing,” he said.

“There were reports of children dying or disappearing from the facilities. For the bulk of St. Joseph’s Mission history, these reports were, at best, given no credence. At worst, there was something darker going on and an effort to suppress the emergence of the truth.”

“In the 1980s and 90s, writes the centre, two former staff pleaded guilty to charges related to sexually abusing students.

“Sellars said it’s clear from survivors’ stories that there are still children unaccounted for even after this initial geophysical sweep: “Their bodies were cast into the river, left at the bottom of lakes, tossed like garbage into incinerators.”

“The abuses suffered at St. Joseph’s Mission and other institutions are not forgotten footnotes of the past,” he said. “The horrors that occurred inside walls of St. Joseph’s Mission are still very real for those who live them in the legacy of these atrocities and is still readily apparent in the numerous ways that intergenerational trauma manifests in First Nation communities.”

----------

That one teacher or religious leader could perpetrate such grievous wrongs is hard to fathom. That the entire staff of multiple schools, including representatives of various religions, could do so and/or could cover up such actions of others is totally incomprehensible. Asking what were they thinking is a pitifully weak reaction.

The world reportedly sees Canadians as polite, nice, harmless folk. So I've heard. Google us and see that we're apparently heavily into "human rights" and "social justice" and are "not corrupt".

Well, apparently not all of us. And not all the time. Especially for these families and their cherished children from the 1880s up to 1996.

In my first job in a medical clinic, on a corner in an insalubrious neighbourhood, the lifelong stereotype of "the drunken Indian" played out, literally fallen in gutters. In nursing training we were taught that Indians (a word now replaced with Indigenous or Aboriginal) had a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. Years later, when I did training as a volunteer with the police, an Indigenous physician was one of the speakers. I still remember his passion and tear-filled eyes when he told us "My people are not genetically deficient". As we speak, there are known instances of Indigenous patients in Canadian hospitals who suffer from the effects of staff bias, if not outright prejudice, which affects their emotional and physical health and in some tragic cases, costs them their lives. Stereotypes can be killers, literally.

We don't want to know, or accept, these realities because it's hard to admit we don't live up to the hype about these nice Canucks.

From today's article linked above comes mention of the Canadian CRT, so to speak:

“The findings are the latest of many residential school searches that have taken place since last year, forcing Canadians to reckon with the insidious violence of colonization."

The insidious violence of colonization. That's quite the phrase. Beyond tragic. We could have done so much better.

Reading this article and hearing the news about the GPR results has made me feel so sad today. That's nothing, of course, in comparison with the overwhelming grief of the affected communities and their members most directly affected. So much talent. So much beauty. So much potential. And we tried to wipe it out.

Our very great loss.

Gord Downie of the Tragically Hip wrote a song, "The Stranger", about an Indigenous youth, Chanie (Charlie) Wenjack, who ran away from residential school. The boy died from hunger and exposure trying to make his way home. He also made a film about it and there's an accompanying novel by Jeff Lemire. Here's an article about it:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/gord-downie-chanie-wenjack-1.3753823

Here's the song:

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=za2VzjkwtFc&list=OLAK5uy_nPs9AovD2beNH5OwOWBm1hP-GTLQO_sjw

Lyrics include "I am a stranger. You can't see me. I am a stranger. Do you know what I mean? That is not my dad. My dad is not a wild man. He doesn't even drink."

From the article:

"I never knew Chanie, but I will always love him," Downie said in a statement on Friday, announcing plans to release the package in October [2016].

"Downie is using his celebrity to draw attention to the legacy of residential schools and what he sees as the need for all Canadians to be involved in reconciliation.

"Chanie haunts me. His story is Canada's story," Downie said. "We are not the country we thought we were. History will be re-written. We are all accountable."

----------

Yes, indeed.

So. Pope Francis and a child-friendly policy.

Does not compute for me.

Sometimes people are so busy protecting their past or their image or else are so deep in denial they can't see over the steaming heap they're standing in.

I believe it's seven delegations from the First Nations that will be rescheduled to meet with Francis sometime this year. A Vatican spokesperson (one of the Pope's private secretaries I think) who was answering media questions a while back extolled the Pope's wonderfulness in granting "a whole hour" to each delegation and then went on to say how incredibly busy the Pope is and an hour is beyond fabulous of him.

Seven hours. Not all that many minutes for each lost child and all the grieving parents and other family members throughout the generations.

There is no way around the stark fact that many major churches were involved in running the residential schools. The government mandated attendance, up to and including forcibly removing children from their homes and taking them to faraway places that were foreign to the kids. Parents were not allowed to visit. The children were subjected to abuse in every way imaginable, as detailed above. The Canadian government provided the funding.

What were their beliefs and prejudices against First Nations peoples that they thought this was an acceptable approach to "caring for" children?

The most mystifying part to me over and above all that is that so many First Nations folks remain in the Catholic Church. I have tried, and not enjoyed (understatement), various churches of several denominations in my day. It was a wrench at times to leave but the reasons for departing always overcame any positives for me. I can understand, though, the feelings one may have for the religious principles in which they believe and how that can hold you there. But. Residential schools. That must take a lot of "getting over" and understanding and forgiving and feeling. However, it's not up to me to question or judge. I am just trying to understand. And it isn't easy. Maybe one day I'll hear the why of it from a survivor.


(edited for spacing, and to add a few thoughts at the end)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2022 08:48PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 25, 2022 08:38PM

Imagine making your presentation, and expecting some reaction from the Pope, but instead, a spokesman asks for some clarifications, or has some questions, and then while trying to satisfy the requests, an hour has passed and someone calls "TIME!" and your group is ushered out. . .

If I were feeling guilty, that's how I'd want it to go...

The longer it takes, the fewer people remain interested.  "...And certainly, since it could never happen today, we must all..."  blah, blah, blah.

One side is intent on justice, the other side is intent on getting out of the quandary (that they don't 'personally' feel responsible for) as cheaply as possible.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 25, 2022 09:18PM

This is so sad. Humans are capable of horrible things. Thanks for putting all this together.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: January 25, 2022 09:26PM

The more I hear about residential schools, the more horrified I am about what happened there. And I'm also horrified because similar things happened in the States, where I live, and we just want to pretend it never happened. We think learning about it will make us feel ashamed, and we should be ashamed about it. Then we might try to make things right.

Also, in addition to the song and film about Chanie Wenjack, there's also the film "Rhymes for Young Ghouls" that centers around a residential school and a reservation in the '70's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feWS9simNFI

ETA: as for the problems with alcohol, folks who go through horrors and ostracization don't always have the benefit of healthy ways to cope. So alcohol goes from an occasional treat to a way of numbing the pain. Speaking from experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2022 09:36PM by ookami.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 26, 2022 04:00PM

ookami Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we just want to
> pretend it never happened. We think learning about
> it will make us feel ashamed, and we should be
> ashamed about it. Then we might try to make things
> right.

Exactly, ookami.

I struggled at first with the responsibility part, about this and other realities of the past, because "it wasn't me, I didn't personally do this and I wouldn't." I didn't want to feel responsible, nor did I think I should be, just because I'm White, or wasn't there, or had no power. So it can be a learning curve. Obviously, we aren't individually and directly responsible for things that occurred before we were born. And equally obviously we can't choose the colour of our skin. Too, I was socialized by family and school not to differentiate by skin colour. That's why it can seem foreign and awkward and uncomfortable when that is precisely what the discussion is about. And more so when the appalling harms are directly traced to "the legacy of colonialism".

Growing up, we thought colonialism was a good thing. Well, I guess so, if you're the conquerors. Too, I remember thinking as a kid that the government was "looking after" Indians, as we referred to them then. It was devastating to learn the truth.

My parents were friends with an Indigenous man and his family when we were young. They had a home and property up country and I remember long car trips in the hot summers to go and visit them. He was a strong, good-looking man and he was friendly and nice to us kids. They seemed prosperous and happy to me. That was pretty much my entire impression of "Indians". Then, as mentioned above, my next impression was all those I encountered while working in downtown Vancouver when so many could be seen on the streets, struggling with alcoholism and its ill effects. It fed into the negative stereotypes.

I can understand that it's hard to take responsibility for past wrongs when we didn't personally commit them. Equally, it matters to those who have been wronged that we acknowledge the atrocities.

It seems to me like a small ask.

Re the link to the film, many thanks.

> as for the problems with alcohol, folks who
> go through horrors and ostracization don't always
> have the benefit of healthy ways to cope. So
> alcohol goes from an occasional treat to a way of
> numbing the pain. Speaking from experience.

Yes, for sure. It can be hard to understand if it's not part of our own reality.

I'm sorry for your experience in this regard. And for the pain that gave rise to it.

Did I say I'm glad you're here with us? Your insight and viewpoints are valuable. In turn, I hope we can be here for you.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 07:21PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I struggled at first with the responsibility part,
> about this and other realities of the past,
> because "it wasn't me, I didn't personally do this
> and I wouldn't." I didn't want to feel
> responsible, nor did I think I should be, just
> because I'm White, or wasn't there, or had no
> power. So it can be a learning curve. Obviously,
> we aren't individually and directly responsible
> for things that occurred before we were born. And
> equally obviously we can't choose the colour of
> our skin. Too, I was socialized by family and
> school not to differentiate by skin colour. That's
> why it can seem foreign and awkward and
> uncomfortable when that is precisely what the
> discussion is about. And more so when the
> appalling harms are directly traced to "the legacy
> of colonialism".
>
> Growing up, we thought colonialism was a good
> thing. Well, I guess so, if you're the conquerors.
> Too, I remember thinking as a kid that the
> government was "looking after" Indians, as we
> referred to them then. It was devastating to learn
> the truth.
>
> My parents were friends with an Indigenous man and
> his family when we were young. They had a home and
> property up country and I remember long car trips
> in the hot summers to go and visit them. He was a
> strong, good-looking man and he was friendly and
> nice to us kids. They seemed prosperous and happy
> to me. That was pretty much my entire impression
> of "Indians". Then, as mentioned above, my next
> impression was all those I encountered while
> working in downtown Vancouver when so many could
> be seen on the streets, struggling with alcoholism
> and its ill effects. It fed into the negative
> stereotypes.
>
> I can understand that it's hard to take
> responsibility for past wrongs when we didn't
> personally commit them. Equally, it matters to
> those who have been wronged that we acknowledge
> the atrocities.
>
> It seems to me like a small ask.

You said this far better than I could.

>
> Re the link to the film, many thanks.

It's not an easy film to watch, though.

>
> Did I say I'm glad you're here with us? Your
> insight and viewpoints are valuable. In turn, I
> hope we can be here for you.

You're better at posting insightful posts than me, though. Why I consider you the best poster on here. And I should try to be nicer and more supportive. I'd welcome tips from you on how to do that.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 25, 2022 11:19PM

Thank you for this post, anybody. You are a wonderful person.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 26, 2022 04:02PM

???

I don't see anybody here.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 26, 2022 04:05PM

Well Shite!

The OP had the depth and empathy that anybody shares with uh. . . you.

My bad!

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 26, 2022 04:16PM

Hahaha. I wasn't sure but I thought that was the case - that you meant me.

I was laughing when I wrote I don't see anybody here. Kind of a double entendre. Of course, there are posters here. And one of them is named anybody.

Please excuse me. I'm easily amused.

Meanwhile, thank you so much for the kind comment.

I appreciated a chuckle as my topic here is so dark. But it's a small one, due to that.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 26, 2022 04:21PM

It's a deeply important topic and very disturbing. You handled it well.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 01:38PM

It’s so much worse than most people even imagine.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 02:24PM

Kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s so much worse than most people even
> imagine.

Yes, Kathleen. You said it in a nutshell - that is the part that hits me the most about these latest revelations. We've known it was bad and it's been a major news topic for years. But it wasn't until January 25, 2022 that many, including myself, heard/read additional details about the types and extent of the atrocities committed by people to whom these precious innocent children were entrusted (well, by force of government mandate).

On a personal note (and I know it's not about me, at all) one aspect of this horror that causes total heartbreak is that non-Indigenous Canadians thought our government was acting benevolently to help the children and families. Like there was something wrong in their communities and we were saving them. Turns out the wrong was the colonial attitudes, impacts and mandates that decimated the Indigenous communities for decades and down to present day. On a different note from the topic of the children, as just one example of negative impacts of colonization and misguided assumptions, I've mentioned before an interview I heard with an Indigenous spokesperson from one of the communities up north. He stated that in his entire life he has never turned on a tap and obtained potable water. This very day there are water advisories in several Indigenous communities and in one, for the second time recently, there is zero useable water due to contamination by fuel. If the government is going to take over administration of these communities and legislate their activities, living conditions and livelihoods, the government must take full responsibility for all aspects of daily life. If the water contamination were occurring in the cities where non-Indigenous populations reside how many hours, days, months, years would it take for the situation to be declared a disaster and promptly remedied? Uh, not very many. Unlike decades of water issues in Indigenous communities. The water thing really gets to me.

And then there are all these recent revelations about the schools. Again.

Yes, we knew at some point that the residential school system was abusive and that the negative effects strongly impacted subsequent generations.

But until this article, in January of the year 2022, I had never heard the most horrendous and specific details of the decades of abuse. I knew of the separation of children from their families ("for their own good") and, of course, I knew of the tragedy of the graves around the schools, full of children who never made it back to their families. But these stark details, from the article I quoted in the OP, I didn't fully comprehend or didn't know at all:

The children were "physically, sexually and spiritually abused".

"Some were also starved as part of scientific experiments on the effects of malnutrition." (What on earth were the adults thinking is too kind a way to phrase a reasonable reaction to this revelation).

"Many became ill with smallpox, measles, influenza, tuberculosis and other unknown illnesses due to lack of proper care." (What an indictment of the authorities and a tragedy for the children who suffered and their families and descendants who had/have to live with the ongoing consequences).

"Thousands died and many parents were never told what happened to their children." (Unimaginable).

"The harrowing system of assimilation created intergenerational trauma that has had a deep and lasting impact on survivors, their children, relations and communities."

"...the commission found Canada guilty of “cultural genocide,” and to this day, governments have failed in many ways to meaningfully repair or compensate for the lasting harm."

"...countless stories of systematic torture, starvation, rape and sexual assault of children at St. Joseph’s Mission."

"...gang rape, child molestation, confinement, exposure to extreme conditions, intentional starvation and beatings to the point of unconsciousness. The school also employed child slave labour through the ranch..."

“The initial operation of the mission was an industrial school where First Nations’ pupils performed labour-intensive tasks, including serving white children and staff, timber-splitting, cattle-rearing, farming and sewing...”.

"...there are still children unaccounted for".

"The horrors that occurred inside walls of St. Joseph’s Mission are still very real for those who live them in the legacy of these atrocities and is still readily apparent in the numerous ways that intergenerational trauma manifests in First Nation communities.”

-----

Oh Canada, we sing.

Yes, indeed. Oh. Canada.

Gang rape? Starvation? Subjects of experiments?

What the absolute f-ing hell.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2022 02:34PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Richard the Bad ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 02:32PM

There is a recent, really powerful, documentary on the Northern Arapaho's efforts to bring home their children who died at the Carlisle Boarding School. Unfortunately, all I can find online is the trailer for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKF9wfCSBa8

Expediting the return of these youth to their people, is a very small, but tangible, first step in helping the healing.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 02:52PM

Thank you for that, Richard. I didn't know that story, so sadly repeated in all too many families.

Here's a link to a radio discussion of the repatriation of those children:

https://www.wyomingpublicmedia.org/open-spaces/2021-07-02/home-from-school-documents-the-return-of-three-northern-arapaho-children-who-died-in-a-native-american-boarding-school


Here is another video, "Lost Unto This World". Completely heartbreaking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cafPCj6D6UU

The music is haunting, the photographs beauty personified.

In one song, haunting words: "Will you remember me at all?"

To remember is often the only tribute we can offer.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 02:43PM

Very deeply felt, and wonderfully written, Nightingale.

We Americans obviously, and enormously sadly, share a very similar history with our northern neighbors.

As all of us work our way through the (now into the centuries long) healing process, acknowledging the individual specifics of our similar histories hurts--but it does get people thinking, and this is critically important.

I don't know about Canada, but I do know that in different parts of the United States, electing Native Americans to political office (or allowing Native Americans to rise to administrative levels in private industry) helps, because it assists in reducing whatever are the current levels of overall prejudice and misinformation.

Thank you for writing this.

Your words here are making the world we all share much better.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 02:49PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6tatKFXlYiY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIgDun08Vlo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2022 02:56PM by bradley.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 27, 2022 07:47PM

Thanks Nightingale,
Just the tip of the iceberg.
As far as indigenous people being Catholic, despite their abuse at the hands of the Church, it kind of astounds me too.

Here in Washington Chief Seattle is buried beneath a white marble cross beside the Catholic Church overlooking the Salish Sea and the city named after him.

His original grave marker was made of three giant Old Growth cedar logs that formed a gate with two columns supporting a huge horizontal log. On top of the log sat a traditional old Salish Canoe with paddles. There were carvings of Chief Seattle sitting in front of the canoe with his Braves rowing behind him. That is all gone now, replaced by a simple white marble Catholic cross, which to me, is a shame.

Chief Seattle was one of the wisest men who ever lived and spoke eloquently on the environment and our relationship with nature.

There’s an old longhouse on his tribe’s reservation called ‘The Old Man House’ where he lived out the twilight of his life. There was a huge old shade tree near the entrance of the house where Chief Seattle would often sit. Indians from all over the Salish Sea would come to his house seeking his wisdom, which he would dispense freely.

His tribe is still there and now they are very successful. 85% of the members of the tribe trace their bloodlines back to Chief Seattle. I was their architect for their Casino/Resort and they asked me to make a monument to Chief Seattle. I re-created his canoe gate with giant old growth cedar Logs, topped with a steel canoe, with Chief Seattle in front and his braves rowing behind him. They were quite pleased with how it turned out.

https://www.cdicustomdesign.com/portfolio-items/suquamish-clearwater-casino-resort/

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