Since 1973 there has been an estimated 60 million legal abortions in the US. (I'm sure of exact number) If only 30 million of the surviving abortions procreate once and their offspring procreate once, we are looking at 100 million additional people in the population, easily. I know some of you will argue the logic but just stay with me. Where are all these people going to work? They will need healthcare and oh my, to be educated. A lot of the mother's are probably young which will compound the problem.
The grandstanding politicians know the abortion issue gets them votes. I wonder how many of the legislators have been involved with an abortion (male or female) in their life. I'm sure a Trump girlfriend never had an abortion. Adoption? There are not enough families that are willing to do this, especially if they are not white. Note, there are over 400,000 foster kids in the US looking for a home.
The abortion rate in the US has been coming down for a while, Why don't we spend the money on education?
I'm also curious if abortion is made illegal, what's the penalty? Maybe we could have both parents given the death penalty.
Abortion was even a major issue until 60s and 70s. Read about Francis Schaeffer.
moehoward Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Abortion was even a major issue until 60s and 70s. > Read about Francis Schaeffer.
I'm not sure if you mean "*wasn't* even a major issue"?
Here's what Wiki indicates in reference to Shaeffer's view on abortion:
Schaeffer: "A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state and hidden his Jewish neighbors from the German SS Troops. The government had abrogated its authority, and it had no right to make any demands."
"He then suggests that similar tactics be used to stop abortion."
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"Similar tactics", I assume, in an effort to stop abortions.
'I know some of you will argue the logic' about an additional 60,000,000 people, I'll take this one up...
First off roe 1973 was about fundamentally changing the system against the will of the majority hence the activists had a constitutional change instead of changing a local law. It came with a series of other legislation that was built on the abortion issue, which was ERA, which would have done away with woman's unique protections in divorce, the draft, bathrooms, etc, then there was the gay (sex) revolution which was built on the same legal idea of right to privacy and not being forced to house British soldiers that roe was flimsy based on, which of course led to gay marriage in 2015, and the turning around of centuries of tradition.
The abortion issue is about women seeking to radically challenge the gender norms of the time, to no longer be forced to be mothers in a heteronormative society, it was a way to redefine sex, to illuminate marriage
See before 1960s people who procreate were expected to get married, this forced women to act responsibly, with woman's rights (abortion) this went away. So without abortion availability this doesn't mean we'd have 60,000,000 more people, we'd probably have less unwanted pregnancies.
Maca Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > See before 1960s people who procreate were > expected to get married, this forced women to act > responsibly, with woman's rights (abortion) this > went away.
It takes two.
Men should "act responsibly" too.
Just saying.
Too, women don't long to become pregnant so they can obtain an abortion or multiple such procedures. You make it sound like they do.
As a nurse, I cared for women on their way to, or back from, having an abortion. Most of them cried.
And they wouldn't choose to do it repeatedly.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 02:44PM by Nightingale.
Right, the chances of any person filling one of the ten or so presidential terms available during his/her lifetime (35 being the minimum age requirement) are almost nonexistent compared to the chances of that person becoming a serial murderer.
The mom may have become POTUS if she had been able to make her own reproductive choices.
I'm tired of certain types who only consider a fetus and never the woman. The woman is the primary person, for cripes sakes.
I'm beginning to think certain types want to force women to have babies so there are plenty of kids to absorb the losses from gun violence (I'm only half way sarcastic here). Those types are NOT pro life. They are pro fetus. Concern for life beyond birth is not concerning to them in the least.
No abortion for incest victims? No abortion for tubal pregnancies? This isn’t the 1950s.
I hope they increase funding for all the crack, heroin, alcohol, meth babies that will need financial help. Those anti abortion families for sure don’t want to adopt them!
In the 1960s the rich girls took a European vacation, the poor took a Mexican vacation. In these times travel is cheaper.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 09:56AM by wondering.
I wouldn't mind adopting a kid, but I'm a single POC woman.
That makes my chances about nil.
There are so many loopholes to jump through to adopt these days and things you have to qualify in being (couples are favored, etc), and then you have to pay so much money that the system is made against anyone who wants to adopt.
Only those who fit the stereotype the organizations are looking for with a lot of time and money are able to adopt.
If they made it so anyone who offered a loving home could adopt and made it easier to adopt, a lot less kids would probably be in foster care today, and in actual homes being adopted.
In our county, you’d have been very well received as a potential adoptive parent. Neither POC nor being single would have washed you out. Things like domestic violence or drugs in your past would be the deal breaker, but not race nor marital status.
Edited for clarity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 02:30PM by Kathleen.
Isn't the trauma of being raped enough? I am not usually in favor of abortion but in this instance I would have to approve. It should be a choice of the victim.
On the pro-life sites there are plenty of testimonies by people who were conceived because of rape, and are very happy to be alive. Those who were aborted were unavailable for comment.
How very pollyanna of you and the pro-life sites. No bias there haha.
Here's a snippet of an in depth study I found to broaden the picture.
CHILDREN BORN OF RAPE FACE A PAINFUL LEGACY Robert T. Muller / January 22, 2016 / 60 Comments / Clinical Practice, Interviews, News, Research, Therapy
"A friend of mine once told me that she was the product of her mother’s rape. Staring at her reflection in the mirror, she wondered aloud, “Which are the rapist’s parts?”
"Although rape is profoundly traumatic, relatively little has been said about the lives of children born from it.
"As psychologist Andrew Solomon writes in his book, Far From the Tree, children conceived of rape are more likely to suffer from severe psychological disorders, the most common of which are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety.
"They face many challenges both before and after birth. Research shows that maternal stress severely affects embryological development. Many women who are raped opt to take antidepressants to help them cope, which can harm the fetus.
____________
Something to think about in a situation where others want to decide for the victim what is best without considering her all that much. Important to remember that no two stories are alike.
I truly leave it up to the individual. Forcing your will on any one is wrong. Forcing your will on someone in the name of God is despicable.
My daughter is the product of rape, or so her birth mother told her. She has several children of her own now, far removed from the abuses of her childhood. All of that stopped with her. She didn't perpetuate it, she transmuted it. Such a kind and beautiful woman you may never find.
caffiend Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Those who were aborted were unavailable for comment.
That's because they were none the wiser. Not everyone is thrilled to be alive. Personally, I have often wished abortion had been open to my mother when she got pregnant with me.
It really sickens me that so many MEN, who will NEVER face the burden of gestating a fetus, feel that they have the right to force other people to give birth. Personally, I think it would be cool if these insistent men were forced to pay child support and the pregnant woman's medical expenses from the moment of conception, if they're so wedded to the idea of making her give birth. I also think that if MEN could get pregnant, abortion would be offered on every corner.
It's especially gross that so many men cite their religious beliefs as reasons why they should force women to gestate.
I don't cheer for abortions. I've never been pregnant myself, and doubt I would have opted to have an abortion if I ever did get pregnant. I do think, however, that already BORN people's needs should come before developing embryos' needs. ESPECIALLY AFTER A SEXUAL ASSAULT!!!! And as long as there are kids as young as 12 and 13 getting pregnant in the world, I will ALWAYS be rabidly pro-choice.
Abortion absolutely eliminates the individual most involved--the child, now deprived of "choice." So to spare the child possible pain in life, we should kill her? How about children born into poverty? Dysfunctional families? Physical hardship?
That's the same argument used to rationalize euthanasia. Fun fact: over half of Dutch doctors acknowledged, in a confidential survey, that they had euthanized patients without the patients' knowledge or consent: An "individual" made a choice. Sure, that's the "slippery slope" argument, but it shows that a policy (like a tax) implemented with purportedly limited objectives tends to grow, and grow, and grow.
The "quality of life" rationale for abortion leads to "qualify for life" reality. Parents, and society, decide how "perfect" a child should be: conversely, how "imperfect" children are disposed of. "In our culture, we much prefer a boy." "There's a chance the child may be disabled." "I couldn't love a child conceived through infidelity." Etc. etc. etc.
Fact of life: many children born into advantageous circumstances turn out lousy, and many children born into hardship (psychological, physical, financial, etc.) turn out very well.
Socio-medical abomination: Iceland has eliminated all Downs Syndrome babies. And you know why. Blacks constitute 12.4% of the US population, but account for 38% of abortions.
Somewhere in Hell, Margaret Sanger forces a grim smile.
I would put the abortion issue in the context of shifting geopolitics. Does the right to life define the United States as a nation? Because the world's next superpower has very different ideas on that.
The realities of childbearing are that every child born can be placed with parents who will love them with every ounce of their being. There is no shortage of caregivers of newborns.
bradley Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The realities of childbearing are that every child > born can be placed with parents who will love them > with every ounce of their being. There is no > shortage of caregivers of newborns.
Not every child can find fosters or permanent parents. That's the tragedy. So many kids. So many yearning prospective parents. All too many matches that don't happen. And everybody hurts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 11:46PM by Nightingale.
caffiend Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Somewhere in Hell, Margaret Sanger forces a grim > smile.
Why is she in hell? Because she advocated birth control?
How can women win? Some don't want them to use birth control or have access to safe abortions. Men want them to have sex. Unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy. Vicious circle for females. Business as usual for males.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 10:47PM by Nightingale.
*Punish women, punish doctors, punish unsurvivable babies and their mothers with painful birth, punish babies born with drug addiction with a lifetime of struggle with learning disabilities, ADHD, long term behavioral effects, punish rape victims, punish teenagers that have abusive parents, punish, punish, punish.
**Provide universal birth control, provide substance abuse treatment, provide low-cost prenatal care, provide dignity-based treatment of rape victims.
Also, it's no secret that the same people who complain about abortions are doing almost everything they can to stop things that might prevent many abortions- like public sex education and free accessible birth control.
My step-brother has been in prison for rape. I didn’t learn until years later after my mother died, the story behind his history. After my mother died, I read some of the things she had written and discovered that he was conceived through rape. After this revelation, I started putting 2 and 2 together. He looked different from the rest of his siblings. He was a really big man. I didn’t know he had been conceived through rape. None of us kids had known that. I’m sure he didn’t know either. But he was a rapist. More than once. He was a violent man behind the mask he wore.