Questions surround podcaster John Dehlin and the quest to build an ex-LDS community

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/02/27/mormon-stories-podcaster/

Peggy Fletcher Stack and Tony Semerad, Salt Lake Tribune, 2/27/2022
As more and more Latter-day Saints extricate themselves from the Mormon cocoon that bred, raised, nurtured, taught and embraced them — and a church they now believe has betrayed, stifled or harmed them — countless digital and in-person communities have sprung up to welcome these displaced souls.
Similarly themed Facebook groups, websites, blogs, email lists, podcasts, hashtags, meetups, cyber wards and online videographers using YouTube and TikTok now reach vast audiences worldwide.
Many of them offer alternate and, some say, vital lifesaving perspectives to what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are taught from childhood, along with safe spaces to help active, questioning and former members navigate what therapists call “faith transitions.”
Popular and prolific Holladay-based podcaster John Dehlin has emerged in recent years as an influential yet polarizing presence at the center of this loose-knit movement.
The 52-year-old psychologist was an early pioneer in using the internet for Mormon-related content and describes his life’s mission as promoting “healing, growth and community for those experiencing a religious transition.”...
Plus, some former Latter-day Saints bring all the same aspects that appalled them while in the church, said Mette Ivie Harrison, a Utah novelist, poet and blogger — including adulation of leaders, male-dominated conversations and self-righteousness.
“There’s nothing wrong with throwing off old shackles and deciding to reconfigure your life based on new information, but ex-Mormon get-togethers resemble anti-testimony meetings,” Harrison wrote in a 2020 commentary, “people sitting around and bearing witness to the pain of Mormonism in ways that seem very similar to the old testimonies I’d hear on fast Sunday about how wonderful Mormonism was.”
When Latter-day Saints leave such an intense faith community, there is an urge to “find some alternative version of the ‘right’ way to live, while also now seeing Mormonism as the ‘wrong’ way to live,” said Axford, the former Latter-day Saint and New York-based therapist. Part of the motivation is a desire “for psychological safety with all the unknowns of life.”
Cults of personality, patriarchy and judgmentalism “can and do exist in ex-Mormon communities and individuals, as these people are still human,” Axford said, “and are also likely more susceptible to these things since they’ve been heavily imprinted from Mormon experience.”
It is healthy and important for ex-Mormons “to speak with and engage with others to validate [their] experience and really understand it,” Axford said. But simply being a former member is “not a long-term useful community or primary identity to focus on.”
For many questioning Latter-day Saints, however, the experience is more raw and immediate. Hundreds of attendees have flocked to recent THRIVE events since it resumed face-to-face gatherings in October — with up to 1,000 expected at its women-only event in Salt Lake City in April — testament, co-organizer Clint Martin said, to the deep need for community in post-Mormonism.
“When the people stop showing up and they don’t come anymore,” Martin said, “that’s when [wife] Jeni and I are going to stop.”

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/02/27/mormon-stories-podcaster/

"At the same time, as the foundation’s reach and output rose, Dehlin’s annual compensation ballooned by more than 700%, according to nonprofit tax reports, swelling from $27,429 in 2010 to $236,021 in 2019. That six-figure salary made up 60% of the group’s total earnings from donors and podcast revenues."

Psychologists aren't supposed to make that much? Maybe that kind of money is more socially acceptable if it comes from bilking insurance and medicare.

Most psychologists don't make that much.
According to BLS, the average salary for psychologists is ~$82,000

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm

Beyond that, what the article states is that he is making $236,000 from his non-profit foundation, not from a psychology practice.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Psychologists aren't supposed to make that much?
> Maybe that kind of money is more socially
> acceptable if it comes from bilking insurance and
> medicare.

He makes more than "THELARDZ ANOINTED" - as long as you don't count the credit cards and the perks.

THELARD does not like anyone making more than his personal PR hacks.

That's all I could capture before the Trib defenistrated me through their paywall, but even though it's a serious shot at John and his financial benefits off of PostMormons, it seems that it is also taking a shot at the type of mostly online community we form, to wallow in our victimhood.
I agree with the authors that the "ExMormon Community" is not viable in the long term either.
It's not enough to sit around and complain about how WRONG Mormonism is and how it damaged you. A community needs to form a more positive purpose than just being against something and reliving painful moments in your life that sounds a lot like the testimony meetings and conferences we used to have in the CULT we escaped.

Eventually Lost Boys and Girls, need to grow up and shed all the destructive myths that have divided us in the past.

Now there's a Women's Only "Thrive" conference, in Utah, like the counterbalance to Men's Only Priesthood Sessions.

Go women!

I'll bet the old geezers in the penthouse are shittin their thrones right about now!

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it seems
> that it is also taking a shot at the type of
> mostly online community we form, to wallow in our
> victimhood.

Do people who seek therapy of any type, with any kind of specialist or group, "wallow" or is it an effective form of recovery? The latter. Countless times RfM posters have stated how much it helps them to find others who have suffered similar negative experiences to their own and we learn from one another. It's healing to be in touch with others who can comprehend from the inside out what it is that is hurting us, or has done so.


> It's not enough to sit around and complain about
> how WRONG Mormonism is and how it damaged you. A
> community needs to form a more positive purpose
> than just being against something and reliving
> painful moments in your life that sounds a lot
> like the testimony meetings and conferences we
> used to have in the CULT we escaped.

There is a purpose in the existence of RfM. It's in the name: Recovery from Mormonism.

I don't see people sitting around complaining but rather thinking people discussing common experiences with one another. New posters, especially those who have newly left the church, may be trying to make sense of what they've been through. Those who have been out a while and here at RfM for a time may change in their purpose, interests and input. Sometimes it is healing to "relive" painful moments by sharing and discussing them. People can commiserate if they have experienced similar challenging times and it gives hope to new posters that there is an end in sight to the shock and pain they may have experienced due to their contact with Mormonism.

I see that RfM is about much more than "being against something" and "reliving painful moments". It seems like comments and viewpoints that Mormons would state in order to try and cast dark shadows over exmos and RfM.

As for the "time to grow up" comment, pppfffffffttttt.

I wasn't talking so much about the community on this board, I was talking about the larger, ExMormon Community. I went to an ExMormon Conference and was amazed at how similar it seemed to a Mormon Conference, with alcohol and lots of drunk people talking shit about Mormonism. It was fun while it lasted, but then it was over and people were like, where's the community? What now?

We do have a 'community' of sorts here where I live, but it's a loose association. We have neighbors who are exmormon, who are great. We have people in our community who we are friends with who are exmormons and it's great sharing our common backgrounds. It gives me a special connection with them and an understanding that I don't have with other people, who have never been Mormon. My wife for instance is an atheist and never had anything to do with Mormons until she met me.
It is just increasingly irrelevant in my life and family. The only family I have that is still Mormon doesn't even live in this country. She moved because she felt like Europe would be better than the US in the future.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wallow in our victimhood.

I think we learned victimhood from Mormonism.

It's a learned helplessness where you can't develop your own morality. Choose the right, but only our right. That is not moral autonomy, that is mental slavery.

So yeah, a slave revolt is definitely in order.

"I agree with the authors that the "ExMormon Community" is not viable in the long term either.
It's not enough to sit around and complain about how WRONG Mormonism is and how it damaged you. A community needs to form a more positive purpose than just being against something and reliving painful moments in your life that sounds a lot like the testimony meetings and conferences we used to have in the CULT we escaped."

I disagree with this mostly because I disagree that that's what this board is all about. There is some of that. And people come and go, but for the long timers here, they've formed friendships and just find this a place to drop in from time to time to discuss lots of tangental topics and also to discuss how mormonism is still a part of their past and therefore a part of themselves. I see no wallowing.

Aren't the authors still church members with a liberal slant?

Yes

Oh. I didn't realize.

Well, that explains a lot.

To me “hit piece” implies that the article is either untrue or unfair. This one seems to be neither. I’ve always thought Dehlin’s goal was to monetize the exmo movement, and he appears to have succeeded at that. I’m not entirely comfortable with him, but I don’t get the sense that he is defrauding anyone. More than I can say about the Q15.

I mostly wish he’d get an editor. Not every (any?) interview needs to be three to six hours long.

>> Dehlin’s goal was to monetize the exmo movement, and he appears to have succeeded at that.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Podcasters can do quite well if they've built up a following. In a way it represents the democratization of the media. If you have a sufficient number of people who are interested in what you have to say, you can build a successful podcast, or YouTube channel, Instagram, or blog.

I suggest that at $25,000 a year he was subsidizing the effort for a long time.

Exactly!

I haven't listened to too many of his podcasts -- sometimes those mentioned here -- but I have no problem with a podcaster making a living or even experiencing some success.

Are only religious cults allowed to "succeed" financially? At least Dehlin is reporting. More than can be said for TSCC.

OTOH, if the enterprise is operating as a non-profit, then there are restrictions on income inurement. No one should benefit excessively based on their position or insider status. After all, this is one of the reasonable criticisms of the Morg. I don't know what's reasonable for someone heading up a non-profit of this nature.

I do think he probably sacrificed a lot in the early years. I hope he set up some sort of deferred compensation during those lean years when they didn't have much revenue. Perhaps that, in part, is what he's receiving now.

All I know is that there are no compulsory donations. Dehlin publishes his finances and if people get upset, they can stop giving him money.

What others choose to do when there is no deception, no obligation, no force is above my pay grade.

What LW said. If people find his services valuable, I’m fine with that, even if he is not exactly my cup of tea. If his podcasts are generating enough ad revenue to pay him well, then a whole lot of Mormons are watching his videos. Good news IMHO.

Yes, good news. He’s not really my cup of tea either, but I’m glad he’s reaching Mormons.

Good points

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OTOH, if the enterprise is operating as a
> non-profit, then there are restrictions on income
> inurement. No one should benefit excessively based
> on their position or insider status. After all,
> this is one of the reasonable criticisms of the
> Morg. I don't know what's reasonable for someone
> heading up a non-profit of this nature.
>

Red Cross, Goodwill, Nonprofit Christian broadcasters....

Many,many CEOs paid WELL north of a quarter million....

Sounds ok then

It sounds a little less acceptable when you realize that it represents over 60% of the total income of the foundation. In those organizations mentioned, the high salaries constitute a much smaller share of the total.

Not true.

Those organizations dispense stuff to people. By definition more of their budget must be devoted to procuring and distributing those things.

Dehlin's organization dispenses Dehlin. Of course he gets more of the income.

The bottom line, again, is that everything is out in the open and people choose whether to donate or not. No one is forced to do anything they don't want to do.

Exactly. Dehlin *IS* what they dispense. W/o Dehlin, they essentially don't exist.

Those larger organizations also have more staff drawing salaries. One might need to consider it as compares to those organizations total expenditures for wages and salaries.

i.e. it's not an easy apples-to-apples comparison.

Dehlin has no trucks, no drivers, no warehouses, no warehouse staff, no retail distribution sites, no retail distributors, few if any outside advertisers, few if any lawyers, no groundskeepers, obviously no editors, no accountants except perhaps his wife when she puts on the green eye shades. . .

Comparing a major philanthropy to him is like comparing Boeing to the taco truck in the Walmart parking lot.

If people want tacos, let them buy tacos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2022 05:44PM by Lot's Wife.

Dehlin certainly is entertaining to listen to. I wonder though about some of his treatment of the LGBT crowd however. He has a tendency to make a really big deal out of their troubles, and let everyone know what victims they are. He categorizes them away from everyone else exclude them from ordinary people and make a really big deal exploring their feelings making it really clear that they're different that they don't fit in at all. All for entertainment. I guess his audience gets some laughs over it. But this is how these kinds of people are they make a hierarchy of victimhood and categorize everyone into where they belong, we are just pawns in the general scheme of taking apart the system. The hierarchy must be destroyed. But these same agitators rarely have a better plan any of us after the tear down the society.

I will be forever traumatized by what happened to me in mormonism, but I've healed a lot. I've been going to the same therapist for over 25 years. Not so much anymore, but he helped me through the worst of it. He saved my life. And now he helps me navigate my relationships with my boyfriend, each of my kids, and my "husband." Even my siblings.

He sent me here. Sometimes I really need to hear what others post. Other times I'm going really well. Since I have a TBM daughter, it was a huge issue and usually isn't now. Her husband helped in that area. He's not so intense. He's really lay back and not a crazy TBM. But my therapist helped me make peace with my daughter and it was up to me to make the changes as it never helped for she and I to talk.

So talking to someone who isn't involved in your life has been a HUGE benefit to me. And coming here helps when I'm having a bad day over mormons. I also come here as "entertainment." Something to read while I eat dinner or take a break from work.

And I'd NEVER EVER join another group or religion. I'm not social. I hated having to go play fake at church.

This reminds me of the Mormon apostle's plaintive query to those who might consider leaving the church: Where will you go? What will you do?

Exmos will do whatever they want to do. Many find companionship and support in the exmo community, and most eventually move on. Those who stay offer companionship and support to each other, and also to newly minted exmos.

It's abusive to try to dictate how fast I should heal or what my dealing with trauma should look like when they're representative of the community that created my trauma. It's all part of the same system of control and gaslighting.

"oh wow! You guys sure do spend a lot of time thinking and talking about us! It's like you're obsessed with Mormonism!"

No duh! It stole 30+ years of my life from childhood. Yeah, I think I get at least a few years to talk about and process what happened to me.

"Oh wow! You just left because you were offended and wanted to sin! You just threw away the entire glory of the celestial kingdom in order to live unrighteously!"

You can't have it both ways. Either it is such a powerful, magnificent thing that I am throwing away for earthly pleasures, or it's so inconsequential, I should be able to walk away from 30 years down the drain without even a second thought. Same old talking out both sides of their mouth story, different article.

+1

Seems like John wants to influence the Brighamite Church in Salt Lake to be more like the Community of Christ. The guy still seems to want a church but a more open church. He's telling the truth when he says he doesn't want to destroy the church.

I attended one of John Larson's Sunstone talks at a Phoenix Community of Christ, and his tone towards the Mormon church was reconciliatory. I asked him during the audience if he meant that we should go back and beg for forgiveness, and he shook his head, laughed, smiled, and said something to the tune of, "no, just be more appreciative of your heritage," but I don't remember exactly how he put it.

I binge listened to as much Mormon Matters as I could get my hands on, because Larson took an atheist version of a McKonkeyite blowtorch to the whole thing. It helped me deprogram a lot. But then he stopped doing his thing shortly before I came into the exmormon mainstream.

He had his podcast episodes up for a while and begged people to give something, not much, just something, and people didn't. The next time I listened to a podcast guest starring him, he was angry at exmormons: he said they're so rattled and so suspicious of any organization asking for money, they never give anything and don't organize postmormon groups like they could.

The last time I saw or heard from him was that Sunstone sermon he gave where he talked about reconciling exmormons and mormons. He spoke about how as much as half of the people who made the trek west may have gone back during the Mormon Reformation. That's a lot of people who belong to the Mormon Story but don't necessarily believe anymore and didn't pass on the legacy, but they still belong to it. He said something about how one congregation he knew took a friend of his back and fully accepted him, because he was no good to himself with some disability he had developed.

I digress. Exmormons are stingey, I thought, because they're church-traumatized. Then I read that, well, actually, we're all still cultists waiting to jump into the next cult-looking thing, and John Dehlin is the guy fleecing us now in the same way.

I say leave Dehlin alone. He's doing the best he can. The largest reason his podcast took off when others didn't is because he seems like the sort of guy who radiates that subdued but lively Mormon charisma that is the stuff that the people in PR are always trying to capture on their correlated artwork covers. So, he provided that sort of face for many tends of thousands of people who have since left the church, and what's more he tried to provide a safety net for them and systemtize the experience of a faith crisis -- he even got credentials to help him do it. He gathered some of the first clinical evidence in the Mormonverse documenting how gay people do better when they feel tolerated and helped to normalize gay people even for Gen Z mormons. His pay is governed by laws and he is not in violation of those laws -- so leave him alone. Beyond all this, he's just some guy: let him be a man.

I have zero interest in joining another group. I think most exmo's feel the same. We're out and we are free. I don't like groups. When I'm having sex, I really don't want it to be a group activity. Each to their own.

What is there to do besides bashing Mormonism?

How about the opportunities to explore everything you were told to avoid. Share, discuss, recommend. Discover the world that exists outside the Church's closed parameters.

Books whose authors we were told were evil.
Movies we were told were indecent.
The Internet - (until the leaders saw its value for propaganda).
Events to attend that bring new meaning to "worthiness"
History from many perspectives that informs us about who we are, what we are capable of, positively and negatively.
Ways to develop and affirm one's personal spirituality, faith, beliefs - or not.
Ways to reframe our concepts of a healthy diet -benefits of a little wine, coffee. Reimagining our food choices outside funeral potatoes, fry sauce, and jello.

There's a lot more to unpack than just that the harm done by Mormonism. Our communications, groups, and forums are rich with world-view, culture-expanding, enlighting experiences.

I seem to remember Dehlin addressing Peggy Stacks hit piece on a podcast. Oh yes... Here it is:

https://youtu.be/UORrGAibhEI


Dehlin took P.F. Stack to the woodshed.


HH =)

Delhin has helped a lot of people.

That does not excuse him from being an unhethical opportunist.

You cannot both make money from confronting and exposing the church's flaws, including enumerating its fallacies.


and

make money from, hey if you want to stay I have a group for that too.

Its not unlike being a drug counselor and a drug dealer.

This ethical weakness goes way back to his mission days, where he anted to be a leader no matter what he had to do (believe and follow OR tattle on those who who did not)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2022 01:34PM by sb.

I guess you don't approve of doctors or therapists or civil rights lawyers or police or firefighters or elementary schools or nurses or anyone else who simultaneously helps people and makes money.

Its not the money, its making money from something you know its hurtful and not true. So in you lame strawman argument, I would be against doctors who tell you not to vaccinate your kids or police who also rob people on their days off or civil right leaders who moonlight as KKK.

I've also felt this way about John Dehlin. Has he helped people. Sure. But it's a very self serving kind of help.

The stories of his mission, which I don't remember enough to paraphrase, left me the clear impression that he would use his talent for personal gain NO MATTER who it hurt or what he had to support.

His exit from the church left me the same impression: he was willing to stay as long as he could monetize faith crisis, creating groups to support people leaving and people staying.

Unethical.

I think it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way when he started out "this is why/how you can stay" - send me money. Then it was "I want to get a degree" -send me money. Then it was "this is why/how you should leave" - send me money. And you need to pay my wife too. You have to view this with a longer perspective. John is a relative newcomer to the exmo world. Many people came before him and after him, giving of their personal and professional time and talents to help people and never asked for a dime. John is the only one I can think of that has continually had his hand out and used it for personal money. Made a cottage industry out of it. If people wish to pay them, no skin off my nose but they have rubbed a lot of long time exmos the wrong way.

I understand exactly what you are saying sb.

I like you Susan. Totally agree. Because he came on the the exmo scene as the internet was dumping mormon secrets, he rode that wave for profit.

This many years later, there are many exmormons that act like John was the first person to leave the church and defends him as a mormon mama bear would defend her profitable branches in the Alpine stake.


He spent his earlier years trying to become a general authority, even though he KNEW it was a lie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2022 12:47PM by sb.

Yes sb. He has always played the side of the fence that made him the most money. I wish I had a nickel for every time I had to delete him and his "You can stay in!" posts. Can you imagine how much money Eric could have made if he monetized since 1995? He could have made money not just off the board (the first one ever) but the email list and the local and national get togethers. Hell, he could have done YT and podcasts once they were launched. The Tanners have charged VERY modest amounts but a lot of that was for printing and mailing. They really blazed the trail. Always willing to take the time for people on the phone, on line and in person. Never charged a dime. They have supported themselves from it but never became rich off it.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/942874948

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/272026793
This is just the 501(c)(3) and doesn't include what he makes in private practice. The 501(c)(3) sure is good free advertising for that private practice dontcha think?

25 minutes $125
50 minutes $250
80 minutes $375

3 Session pack $700
6 Session pack $1300

Average for the area looks to be $150-$175 per 50 minutes.


I never gave him money (what can donate goes here and to the wombats) but I would really not be happy if I had donated to fund his education. So he could help exmos.

I think we all can understand "Have good one pal hahahaha". It's not rocket science.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2022 03:14AM by Susan I/S.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we all can understand "Have good one pal
> hahahaha". It's not rocket science.

Of course we can. But the point remains: if he's going to accuse me of poor reading skills, it's entirely fair to criticize his writing skills.

Glass houses.

sb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not the money, its making money from something
> you know its hurtful and not true.

That's pretty silly, isn't it? Dehlin is helping people see the truth about Mormonism; he's making it easier for them to leave the source of their injuries. He's doing the opposite of what you say.


-----------------------
> So in you lame
> strawman argument,

Yeah, you don't know what a straw man argument is. In this case a straw man argument would be saying that Dehlin is trying to encourage people to stay in the LDS church--precisely what you are doing.


--------------------
> I would be against doctors who
> tell you not to vaccinate your kids or police who
> also rob people on their days off or civil right
> leaders who moonlight as KKK.

Sure. Just like that.

Time is money. John has bills to pay. It’s probably a full time job doing Mormon Stories and Thrive and whatever else he has going.

And he discloses his finances, giving people the capacity to make their own informed decisions.

NO ONE IS SAYING HE SHOULD NOT MAKE MONEY.
NO ONE IS SAYING HE SHOULD NOT MAKE MONEY.
NO ONE IS SAYING HE SHOULD NOT MAKE MONEY.

He is making money from people leaving and from people staying. That is UNETHICAL.

Read this again, and again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2022 12:47PM by sb.

YES! Finally someone speaks the truth:

It is unethical to let people make their own decisions for themselves. After all, the opposite of Mormon authoritarianism is anti-Mormon authoritarianism, not individual autonomy.

He is doing BOTH. Read my post. Helping people leave and helping people compromise morally to stay, in both cases, John has hos hand out.

I say again: he is providing information to people who are then enabled to make their own decisions.

I realize that people like you believe there is One True Way and it happens to be the one you chose, but some of us think the freedom to choose extends even to those who disagree with us.

Apologies if that offends you.

Another strawman. Wow, you must be fun at parties. People can do whatever they want and pay whoever they want.

You don't realize anything about me because you can neither understand a simple statement nor can you read.

People can pay him. or worship him, or both whatever your preference is.

However, and pay attention here: it is unethical to know something is bad and sell it to people while making money telling folks it is bad with the other hand.

Its unethical. its not a matter of opinion, or choice. It is a medical standard.

Apologies if you can't read.

sb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another strawman. Wow, you must be fun at parties.
> People can do whatever they want and pay whoever
> they want.

Haha. You show again that you don't even know what a "straw man" is. I'm not sure why you insist on repeatedly demonstrating that fact.


---------------------
> You don't realize anything about me because you
> can neither understand a simple statement nor can
> you read.

Why would I want to know anything about you?

As for not being able to read, at least I know what a straw man argument is.


---------------------
> However, and pay attention here: it is unethical
> to know something is bad and sell it to people
> while making money telling folks it is bad with
> the other hand.

That's just stupid. What is right for one person is not necessarily right for another; what is right for one person at one time in her life is not necessarily right for her in another. Even when you insist you are in favor of free agency, you denounce individual choices that contradict your preferences.


-----------------
> Its unethical. its not a matter of opinion, or
> choice. It is a medical standard.

Hahaha. Dehlin is not an MD. But hey, if you want to apply the standards of one profession to all professions, go ahead. That's how authoritarians work.


-----------------
> Apologies if you can't read.

To the contrary, you speak loudly enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2022 01:01PM by Lot's Wife.

hahaha oh I see. You are a member of THAT cult.

Tell John hi next time he is cradling you. Ethical standard apply to all medicine not just MDs...but you could look that up, as well as what a strawman argument definition, as well as ethical standards...so. I'm not going to argue with you as all this reading could help your comprehension skills.

I'd hate to trigger you to need another therapy session with your lord and savior, John.

Have good one pal hahahaha

sb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hahaha oh I see. You are a member of THAT cult.

Actually, I have no horse in that race. I am glad he has documented some of the absurdities of Mormonism but I find the vast majority of his pieces utterly boring.

My "cult" is respect for the individual and her right to choose. If you think individual autonomy is "cultish," so be it. At least we know, with such impulses, whom you voted for in the last two presidential elections.


----------------
> Tell John hi next time he is cradling you.

Never met the man, never intend to.


-------------
> Ethical
> standard apply to all medicine not just MDs...

Seriously? A financial advisor's fiduciary responsibilities apply to dentists? A lawyer's confidentiality obligations apply to farmers?

Is it possible that we are confusing ethical standards with moral standards just the tiniest bit?


-----------------
> Ethical
> standard apply to all medicine not just MDs... but
> you could look that up, as well as what a strawman
> argument definition, as well as ethical
> standards...so. I'm not going to argue with you as
> all this reading could help your comprehension
> skills.

I appreciate your guidance on ethical matters and such logical terms as "straw man," but do you sincerely think someone could learn reading comprehension from so syntactically-challenged a passage?


----------------
> I'd hate to trigger you to need another therapy
> session with your lord and savior, John.

Ah yes, another crypto-authoritarian who thinks hyperbole is argument.


-----------------
> Have good one pal hahahaha

I think you mean something like "Have a good one, pal. Hahaha."

Forgive me for taking that liberty, but we students of elementary English find it much easier to comprehend prose when it is punctuated correctly.