There have been several posters recently, who have lost loved ones. My sincere condolences go out to all of you.

It brought back memories of when our 19 yr. old son died after a 2 yr. battle with lymphoblastic lymphoma. The most repeated words of "comfort" were:
- He's in a better place,
- God needed him on the other side.
And this one bothered me the most - The good die young. So, what does this mean to all of us who were over 19? That we were bad?

But the most heartless words were:
- He died because you lacked faith, and
- Just get over it, move on.

On another post, Nightingale wrote that she was thanked for listening. That was what I wanted - a listening ear, a hug, or just silence.

There were other expressions of sympathy: one sister brought by a casserole made with rancid potatoe chips on top. Not even our dog was tempted to try it. Another sister had dropped off a salad & called to see when she could pick up her salad bowl. What salad? We did not have it. Come to find out, she had delivered it to the wrong address.

It was a very difficult time, and the beginning of the end of the mormon church for me,

In moments like those, it's best to just listen to the people suffering and be there to support them. Our words are not required, only our hearts.

Exactly. There is no “right” thing to say, but there are plenty of wrong things to say. People who are hurting really need someone to listen to them.

I suffered a monumental loss when my wife died from lung cancer.
SHE IS NOT IN A BETTER PLACE!!!
SHE IS JUST DEAD PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD
And yes I miss her very much!!

I agree. Keep it simple, just bring empathy to the table.

I am sorry Jazbo and for everyone who anticipated some compassion from this corporation. There are many kind thoughtful Mormons just as there are kind folks found everywhere. This church however seems to reduce empathy in individuals. I believe it to be the cold corporate approach of its administration to be a significant factor. The next life is more important that this one so just give your money - don't expect anything in return. The cruelty of the local leaders was the shelf break for us many years ago. Thanks for posting.

When dealing with Mormons, it's helpful to keep in mind that what they do is in duty to the service of the church. The actual humans in need are only a means through which that duty is achieved. Empathy is not required to achieve the celestial glory, only obedience.

My brother died in his twenties. Some of the TBMs told my mom if she wanted to see her son again, she will have to be worthy.

"He's in a better place" I heard this to naseum

I can't imagine how you survived that, Jazbo. I am so very sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 03:27PM by Kathleen.

I would find it hard to console a parent who had lost a child. My mother wanted to be a parent who had lost a child. Thankfully, she isn't and I'm still alive. At 86 I hope she never becomes one. I don't wish it on anyone, even her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 12:50PM by Elder Berry.

I have a nephew who lost both his sons, both in their 20s and his only children, in the space of a year. Sadly most of us are ill equipped to handle such situations as we see our loved ones going through such terrible times. Words, even if we knew the right ones, seem inadequate to the indescribable grief they are experiencing. Losing a child, two in the case of my nephew and his wife, is life changing, and the emptiness and the grief will be with them for the rest of their lives.

Even after more than three years now friends and family members still tread on eggs around them, fearing to even bring up the names of the boys because to do so, they think, will only serve to freshen the pain. The reality is, as they have expressed to us, they want to talk about their boys. To not do so leaves them feeling that they never existed, an\d adds to the pain for them.

To Jazbo, I cannot even begin to comprehend the grief you must feel at the loss of your son but I hope your days are blessed greatly by the good memories you have of him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2022 07:13AM by Concrete Zipper.

To anyone wondering:

I tried to edit out the excess white space, but after several tries was still unsuccessful.

Sorry!

Interesting!

A silence (or white space) to ponder.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 08:22PM by Nightingale.

I remember when I lost my parents, what I was looking for was a sincere expression of sympathy, a sense of empathy, and a listening ear. It's really enough to say with sincerity, "I'm so sorry for your loss. How are you doing?"

I remember the deaths of my grandparents and sister. The Mormons saw it as an opportunity to preach, sperm donor saw it as an opportunity to share his "philosophy," and no one empathized with the mourners. Even just an "I'm sorry" is better than the cliches Mormons love to spout.

I suck at offering support to mourners, but I still wish I could do something for the people who lost loved ones.

ETA: I'm sorry about your son.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 07:59PM by ookami.

it has been for you and your family.

My TBM aunt had twin girls 60 years ago. From what I've heard, she wasn't the perfect little mormon. I heard just recently she had a boyfriend at about 19 who was mormon, but who was inactive and smoked. She told my sister that she wanted to marry him, but he wasn't ready to get married. She ended up with her husband not long after. Nobody likes her husband.

She had no idea she was having twins. One of the babies died of hyaline membrane disease at 1 day of age. I know that one of the reasons, and maybe the biggest reason, she is as TBM as she is is because of losing this baby girl and the promise (do they ever talk about it now) of if you are righteous, you will be able to raise that child in the next life.

What I will never understand IS I have a set of twins who are 36 now. When they were small I got a magazine about twins and it talked about sets of twins where one died. I never REALLY thought about her losing her daughter until then. I asked my mother how people reacted to her losing her baby. She said that she just remembered that everyone wondered why they hadn't come to the dinner until much later as they stayed at the grave. And nobody seemed to get it. I wasn't there (I was 4), so I don't have a clue, but it sounds like everyone was just "well, it was only a newborn and she has another child" is what my mom said the attitude was. This was her first pregnancy.

She is extreme TBM, but somehow she and I have formed a very close friendship even though she steps over the line sometimes. She also has a gay son and I'm not supposed to know. I think she feels a connection to me because of some of the similarities in our lives.

When my mother, my cousin said that since his dad had just died 6 months before, something big must be going on in heaven for them to take 2 in 6 months. I was like, "Let my mother rest!"

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that one of the reasons, and maybe
> the biggest reason, she is as TBM as she is is
> because of losing this baby girl and the promise
> (do they ever talk about it now) of if you are
> righteous, you will be able to raise that child in
> the next life.

This is how they hooked a woman whose "discussions" I sat in on at the request of the mishies. Convert-meet-convert as a technique to indicate come on in, the water's fine. It works. :(

She had had a couple of abortions as a young teen. The missionaries told her that if she got baptized she would be able to raise those "children" after the resurrection or in the Mormon future, whatever that is - I don't have a clear idea of that. There are all kinds of reasons that makes no sense, even if you're a believer in life in the hereafter, and I started in my chair and furrowed my brow when I heard them say that to her. The head missionary, who I knew well (who was a very nice, and compassionate, guy) stared into my eyes and gave a gentle shake of his head. To my great regret, I kept silent and never did address the issue with her. She was going through agonies, many years after the fact, and I didn't want to make things worse for her by saying the wrong thing. But she went on to be baptized and it all ended in a debacle, as these things are bound to do. I wonder what the outcome would have been if I had spoken up at the time or else at least told her later in private that their contention wasn't holy but hole-y. There were no kids for her to claim as her own - even I, a very under-informed convert myself, knew that the Mormon belief is that the "children" (actually only ever a fertilized egg at the stage she was at when the procedures occurred) would be "reassigned" to a different mother. Plus how would they then, many years later, still be children for this convert lady to be mother to? And then what about the other woman they would have been assigned to? And wouldn't they be all grown up and not need to be reared by anyone at all at that point? Just whack-a-doodle stuff.

Mormon ideas and techniques and practices and demands and pretty much everything about them all have the capacity to inflict a great deal of pain on adherents, observers, and non-mos alike.

I like things to make some kind of sense. And this? Just. Does. Not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2022 01:57PM by Nightingale.

My DW had a dream about being with all of our miscarriages. They were being baptized, which was confusing because there aren't supposed to be baptisms in heaven.

I am so afraid of saying the wrong thing that I tend to get parallyzed. I don't want to make it worse. "If there is anything I can do . . ." can be a very wonderful thing to say. A touch or a hug can be nice but you can get sued for that nowadays and somehow asking permission ruins the moment for me.

I have read articles about the bereaved receiving flowers as condolence and just throwing them across the room--which I find a healthy response.

Mormons and grief? "Can you say denial, boys and girls?"

When my father died my mother went into stoic mode. It was so important to show everyone as proof of her grand faith as the great Mormon Matriarch that she knew he wasn't dead but had just gone ahead to prepare the way for her in the Celestial Kingdom. Not tear. Not a sad face. Nothing. All business with what needed to be done.

I was so relieved when six weeks later she confessed to me that she had wandered the house yelling and screaming for an entire day at Dad for leaving her and sobbing hysterically. Thank goodness she did that. Everyone needs that. Then back to normal with the stoicism. I think I'm the only one she told.

Nice to know. My mother thinks my father left her for someone else in Mormon heaven.

When my Catholic wife died in 2017 I heard nothing from my Mormon family save for the 3 cousins and their spouses who attended prayers. Not a card or a phone call or message of condolence from anyone else. Not a surprise.

I got a million calls - from various church people telling me who I was to report to (multiple) and the church relatives telling me when the funeral had to be (the same ones, constantly changing their travel plans.) A couple of church people called to tell me how their own parent died.

My only friend during that time was Mike the postman who just lost his wife. Thanks Mike!

My husband died in an accident about a year and a half ago. His son handled contact with the local ward people, which was fine with me.

We held a memorial service/ celebration of life at a place and time of our choosing. Family and friends shared their memories of my husband - so much love was in the air when they spoke. Some family and friends chose not to speak in words, but shared love in specially chosen musical pieces. A friend who is a Unitarian chaplain and grief counselor in training was the closest thing to a clergyman that we had. It was beautiful and perfect.

I have been attending bereavement support groups through our local hospice services, where I find much comfort and peace. The hospice employees, volunteers and participants respect those who grieve, ask pertinent questions, listen to the responses, and give everyone the time they need to grieve. I encourage grieving people to look into those services in their own areas.

In this world, there are comfort people and non-comfort people. The non-comfort people talk at you, and the comfort people listen to you. Treasure the ones who comfort. They ease your journey through your grief.

Peace and best wishes to all of you.

When my father died pre-Covid, we held the funeral at the funeral home, and in a spirit of ecumenicism and not wanting to offend LDS family and friends, we offered to have the bishop speak at the funeral. We accepted to have a packet of temple clothing placed in the casket. And we had the grave dedicated.

And the Mormons fawned all over us. They made the programs. They promised to supply the music. They even made food for a reception at the chapel.

But there was a price to pay: the bishop's talk was pure Mormonism from start to finish. As far as the bishop was concerned, there was no doubting my dad was LDS and that he had bought into the whole plan of salvation, blah-blah-blah.... (He even had his less-than-competent tween daughter play the funeral home organ. We'd have paid for a professional, if we had known.)


Well, my mom died less than two months ago. Her hospitalization was short. We didn't get in to see her when she died. If the hospital had called us in soon enough to sit vigil by her bedside for she died, we'd never have left it. But Covid restrictions and poor communications from the over-packed hospital made that impossible.

And so when it came time to plan the service, I knew exactly what I wanted: no service at the funeral home, no reception. I have antivax relatives. My mother had strident antivax, antimask friends. Instead, we held a hour-long viewing, and in the January cold, we held a graveside service. I alone spoke.

When we reached out to the Mormons, they were fine providing the temple clothing to toss in the casket. But no reception? No chance for the bishop to bloviate? They were very put out. So there were no programs, no help setting up, no music, no flowers, no meals brought over for the grieving... nothing.

They did send a guy to dedicate the grave. It was mercifully short. I'm not even sure he did it "right".

Without a chance to showboat, the Mormons had basically no interest in my mother's death. It was probably better that way.

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2022 12:48PM by Tyson Dunn.

Oh, Tyson, I am so sorry about your Mom. Yes, it was probably better that way.

I spent 5 days in the hospital with covid pneumonia, with no visitors, etc. The hospital was over-crowded, the staff harried. I was so lonely. The hospital restrictions are difficult, although understandable.

Before my son passed from leukemia-type cancer, he said, "Mom, don't let them (local leaders) preach at my funeral. They are so impersonal." Since he loved to draw, we collected his art-work & displayed it at a wake at the funeral home. We visited & reminisced about him. It was very relaxed, & quite non-mormon. We had a lot of no-mo family & friends.

His father dedicated the grave, & I spoke about my son.

I am glad we did the services that way. Years ago when my mom passed, a preacher who had not seen her since high school, spoke at her funeral. He did not know her when she died so it was very general & unsatisfying.

into a situation. It's not just LDS people, that's just who we have suffered from.

By in large, these people have bad social skills, few friends, and look for "emergency" situations so that they can "be in charge" and have social contact and feel superior.

Once I went through records of children at our agency to see how many had lost a parent. There were over 50. Many of those parents died from drug deals gone deadly, drug overdoses and suicides.

I organized a grief session for them with local professionals there to help.

Only two children attended—-the ones I picked up.

Foster parents didn’t feel there was a need for them to attend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2022 01:21PM by Kathleen.