... no glue to hold it together.

Jacko Mo Mo Wrote:
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> ... no glue to hold it together.

You are going to have to explain your position much better because, as stated, it is nonsense.

"We the People of the United States..." [our Constitution], plus our Declaration of Independence, plus our ridding ourselves of slavery (and, later, much of segregation), plus our insistence that each of us is created [politically and legally] equal, plus our emphasis on characteristics such as Self-Reliance (Ralph Waldo Emerson)...

If you are in a place outside of the United States, you can often identify an American a block away, either by the way they are dressed, or the way they speak and carry their body, or their attitude which, although difficult to describe, is recognized instantly throughout most of the globe as "American."

Where could you possibly have gotten the idea that we Americans have no cultural norms? A simple trip to any grocery store in the nation would provide you with a snapshot of various identifiably American characteristics that virtually neon-light the term "American."

But if you watch TV you get a different snapshot. Fair enough, freak shows sell.

bradley Wrote:
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> But if you watch TV you get a different snapshot.
> Fair enough, freak shows sell.

Do you mean the adverts or the shows themselves?

That would be obesity, poor education, belief in exceptionalism, poor hygiene, general disconnection from the world, believing that Spanish should not be spoken in the United States,... The list is too long. Our country has deteriorated so much that we are pretty far removed now from living in the First World. We are despised among many nations. Even when we were pursuing illegal adventurism in Southeast Asia, we were more liked and respected in the world.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That would be obesity, poor education, belief in
> exceptionalism, poor hygiene, general
> disconnection from the world, believing that
> Spanish should not be spoken in the United
> States,... The list is too long. Our country has
> deteriorated so much that we are pretty far
> removed now from living in the First World. We are
> despised among many nations. Even when we were
> pursuing illegal adventurism in Southeast Asia, we
> were more liked and respected in the world.

You're living in an alternate universe. I suggest you find somewhere else to live.

Just because someone has a different opinion to you they should "get out"?

Obesity is a major problem in this country and the only winners are the drug companies getting more business because of it.

Take a look at where education in America ranks in the world.

Cludgie's points are not without merit even if they ruffle your feathers. Well, not sure about the hygiene one though . . .

Everything Cludgie wrote was spot-on. Absolutely true, and undeniable. I wish those who deny those issues would get the hell out of my country. I think the Trumpers should leave. They are the one's who parrot the phrase "make America great again." They are the ones who hate America AS IT IS.


HH =)

We're Number 11 in science!! Whoo! Whoo! U-S-A! U-S-A!

We're Number 30 in maths! Whoo! Whoo! U-S-A! U-S-A!

As for myself, it has gotten so bad (we've lived on four continents, and can make a good comparison), that I'm seriously looking for a good country to buy a house or flat. The problem is that the "good countries" all are in Europe, and not all allow a retired non-EU person to even live there permanently. But some good nations make it pretty simple--Spain, Italy, Portugal. And here's something weird--all three of those countries are billed as having medical care and hospitals that are superior to the United States, at least in overall ranking (remembering, of course, that medical care is only as good as its availability to the public. (Again, the United States are very low in this regard, number 36 out of peer nations; Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, and Scandinavian countries are in the top ten or twenty.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2022 04:50PM by cludgie.

Plenty of PB and jelly to go around.

What "cultural norms" would make you feel more comfortable?

You must be kidding. What about Mexican tacos? These are wonderful in my neighborhood (in L.A. County).

Hey, Thinking Polly, I have no problem with US culture and its amalgamation of wonderful peoples and cultures.

I was merely posing the question for people who find our traditions and values lacking. What sort of cultural norms do they want?

I hope they'll answer specifically, but some people would rather keep their views implicit lest they be exposed to the light of day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2022 11:02PM by Lot's Wife.

We all drive on the right side of the street. We all hate traffic circles, which puzzles Europeans.

And we are all unique, just like everybody else.

What more do you want?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> We all hate traffic circles, which puzzles
> Europeans.

:D

>> We all hate traffic circles <<

No we don't. I'm a big fan. I'll take a round about over a 4 way stop any day.

Now, New Jersey jug handles are an entirely different matter.....let's make everyone turn right to make a left!

I'm a fan, too. They keep traffic moving smoothly, eliminate the constant stops, and save energy.

I love ‘em. They leasen the chance of being “broad-sided.” They are much safer than four-way stops for drivers. I don’t see many with pedestrian crosswalks, tho.

I was in South Africa, in Pretoria, doing research for a book.

I had never driven on the left before.

I had never encountered a traffic circle before.

It was one of the scarier experiences of my life.

I survived.

I still don't like traffic circles, even though (technically) I could maybe claim some amount of driving experience with them.

They’re ok when people waiting find a space to join, but when traffic is busy, no guarantee you can find room, you have to wait for someone to exit just ahead of you…

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> I'm a fan, too. They keep traffic moving
> smoothly, eliminate the constant stops, and save
> energy.

On the other hand, they are a major impediment to pedestrians, particularly blind ones like myself. If I come across a traffic circle while walking, I have to walk completely around that circle to get to its other side--I can't cross the circle at any point. In fact, those who teach mobility to the blind and visually impaired recommend that if we have to cross a street while going around a traffic circle, we must leave the circle, walk down the street to find a safer place to cross (such as a light) and then walk back to the traffic circle on the street's other side.

Sorry it's off-topic, but as a totally blind person, I thought it necessary to respond to the advantages of traffic circles seen by some.

Not off-topic at all. It’s a perspective I had not considered, and an important one.

Yes, what Lot's Wife said. It's always good to get different perspectives on things. That's how we learn.

I am directionally-challenged - can't read a map to save my life and constantly get "lost" even going to familiar places. I've been driving since I was 16 and have yet to feel comfortable with roundabouts. Fortunately for me, there's only one I have to regularly confront and it's in a quiet area so to date so far so good in terms of me figuring out which way to turn. I think the general rule is always bear right and then circle left. I should look that up. If I'm really lucky there's someone in front of me and I can just follow them. Or not, if you're supposed to only go through one at a time.

blindguy: We have pedestrian crossings here that beep when it's safe to cross. Do you have those? My issue with them is that on wide roads there's scarcely time to get across. You have to watch the car on the curbside to make sure they don't pull forward (such as to turn right) if a car next to them in the left lane is partially obscuring their vision. Of course, they need to take responsibility to check for pedestrians but in heavy traffic they're more likely to be looking elsewhere. I've had a few near misses myself and I don't have the challenge of diminished or no vision. I feel for you in that regard. You have to hope that drivers will be as cautious as you need them to be. I don't blame you for travelling to safer areas to cross. But what a pain.

Nightingale wrote in part:

"blindguy: We have pedestrian crossings here that beep when it's safe to cross. Do you have those? My issue with them is that on wide roads there's scarcely time to get across. You have to watch the car on the curbside to make sure they don't pull forward (such as to turn right) if a car next to them in the left lane is partially obscuring their vision. Of course, they need to take responsibility to check for pedestrians but in heavy traffic they're more likely to be looking elsewhere. I've had a few near misses myself and I don't have the challenge of diminished or no vision. I feel for you in that regard. You have to hope that drivers will be as cautious as you need them to be. I don't blame you for travelling to safer areas to cross. But what a pain."

There are some signals in larger cities at main intersections that beep when it is safe to cross the street, but they are not everywhere. One of the two major blind consumer groups in the U.S., the National Federation of the Blind (NFB), has strongly opposed them in the past, arguing that blind people should learn to rely on the sound of parallel traffic to determine when it's safe to cross streets. In Arizona (where I live) there are two problems with that argument, one of which you've already alluded to. It is legal for automobiles to turn right on red and many take advantage of that. Second, and possibly more ominous, is the development of electric cars whose engines can barely be heard at idle or when cars begin to accelerate. A workaround for this second problem has been an agreement by electric car manufacturers during the last decade to have the radiators make some level of noise so that the blind and visually impaired can perceive the car's location when they come to a street crossing. With new entrants into the electric car field, however, and no legal requirements, it remains to be seen if the agreement will continue to hold in to the future.

Unfortunately, beeping signals don't help with traffic circles because once automobiles are in the circles, they are not supposed to stop. (I don't know about the rules for traffic circles that have crosswalks, but as a totally blind person, I'd be wary of them as well--with the most important factor being that I can't see the crosswalks in the first place.)

Four way stops are scarier than traffic circles. Everyone cheats at a four way.

Rubicon Wrote:
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> Everyone cheats at a four way.

Not where I come from. [western San Fernando Valley/Los Angeles/southern California]

Since Covid began, I have been exceptionally struck by how polite and intelligent our local drivers have been and continue to be.

I'm not noticing anyone "cheat[ing] at a four way," but I am noticing (on almost a daily basis now) how courteous most everyone is continuing to be. (Does not include street racers, who mainly operate in the literal dark of the night.)

I've been exceptionally struck by how, in an accident or an emergency situation, drivers are thinking through what "is," and then "what needs to be" in order to prevent additional accidents, and/or to clear the roadway so emergency vehicles can go through, etc. Everyone is doing this without any direction from police or anyone.

The result in each situation has been that space for necessary U-turns has been artificially created, and/or oncoming traffic realizes that traffic is suddenly on "their" side of the street and they stop immediately or get out of the way, so that traffic, and sometimes people without vehicles, can get through.

Suddenly a motley group of drivers who are strangers to each other are operating as a cohesive "whole," with some kind of group intelligence I have not been a part of before, because something has happened and operating in a cohesive way is the only sane course of action, even if laws are being broken (such as: suddenly you need to drive on the OTHER side of the street for a while).

I grew up in this Valley, and I've only seen this before when I was really little, and we had some kind of community threat (a sudden brushfire in a neighborhood, for example), and back then, people did the same thing: all the usual laws and practices were suspended until the emergency situation was under control, everyone was working together as a cooperating group all on their own, and no individual (such as a police officer) was giving orders.

I don't understand the dynamics of this phenomenon, but I certainly do recognize it from my years as a child growing up in Woodland Hills and noticing what was going on around me. (My parents were among the earliest of the post-WWII "pioneers" in a part of Los Angeles which had begun, in the early 1920s, as an intended real estate scam.)

Who are "we all?" In Europe, most countries drive on the right. Exceptions are the UK, Ireland, Cyprus, and Malta (and Gibraltar?). In Asia and the Pacific, "correct-side" (keeping left) countries are even more plentiful, including Japan, Indonesia, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, and more. Africa includes South Africa, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Uganda, and several more. And don't forget the Caribbean.
To be sure, we drive on the right side; these others say, "Fine. But we drive on the 'correct' side."

I don't see consumerism on the list.

"Cultural Differences

Some American customs may seem strange to people from other countries, but knowing about them may help you better adapt during your stay in the U.S.

Being on time is important.
Americans like privacy and personal space.
Americans can be very direct and honest, even though it may seem rude to people from another culture.
Americans ask about how your day is going without expecting an answer.
Americans wait their turn in lines.
Americans value independent thinking.
Americans like to joke, smile and talk.
Americans are very concerned with personal hygiene and cleanliness. It is not unusual for them to bathe one or even two times a day."

As a 50 year transplant I'll give you most but everything is relative. I have never found being on time a specific quality of American life. Nor the concept of a line, in some things yes, but not generally.

Americans abroad can usually be spotted but less nowadays by dress because clothes are more universal, especially in Europe. I would say they are given away by accent and volume.

Good list.

However, Pasadena doesn't let people park in front of their house, OR in their driveway. So, they have a fence half-way up between the driveway, and the sidewalk. (At least this was so when I went to visit a political friend.)

I've heard Europeans say that Americans are very friendly and informal.

When I lived abroad in a European country it was impolite to ask a lot of personal questions the way Americans do.

In the US we like our personal space. If we're sitting alone or with a pre-determined group at table in a restaurant it's understood that while we're sitting there no one else can. Not so in European countries I visited. It's not unusual for strangers to sit at tables occupied by others if there's no other place to sit. Happened to me many times and felt a little uncomfortable, especially when I was sitting alone at a small table.

Name one cultural norm that has held a country together. You'll find that most citizens from opposing sides in civil wars share cultural norms but still kill each other anyway.

We have many cultural norms. However, there are many people in the USA who are very superficial and who simply parrot what they hear. Forming independent thoughts is beyond the reach of many U.S. Americans.

Having said that, intelligent and highly capable people around the world still want to live here because the USA is still a good place when it comes to realizing dreams.

For every person here who complains about the US, you can find someone somewhere else who would gladly trade places with them.

No you can't, at least not anymore. There's hardly a European at all who would change places with us. People who want to enter the US now are the very people that the right-wing people do not want, people in the Western Hemisphere who need a refuge better than their own. Since the United States are in the way of Canada, they choose the US.

Writing this from the Old World.

My prejudice.

Americans are our relatives. The Black sheeps or the eccentrics.

We like them. Most of all we like the goods they put in the koffert if they return back to us to show how self-made or blessed they are.

Americans are a bit paranoid though. Always afraid of the Kings and Queens of the old world. Their identity has a bias to always seek to transcend specific sets of social and public orders on many levels. Their narrative is much like Shadrachs, Meshachs, and Abednegos motivation. They wont bown down for ANYONE.

Some great music came out of here. Jazz, Blue Grass, Country-Western, Rock and Roll, Punk (The British copied it but put a different spin on it), Rap, Hip-Hop, Big Band, Mo-Town, Blues, Grunge

Yep, when it comes to music, the US industry rules. Ironically, the majority of the new music trends from the US are of Black origin, and usually viewed with great alarm at the beginning.

Brazil exported quite a bit of music as well, and for some reason, Korea is now having a moment. Britain did a good job of jump-starting the 1960s.

But America is the 800 pound gorilla of music.

The saxophone was an American invention. The jazz drum kit was an American invention. The electric guitar was an American invention. Yup. Much of our music and food we are known for came from the black population. They actually invented a lot of stuff usually out of necessity or having to be creative due to a lack of resources. I'm a mix so one of my ancestors is George Washington Carver. He's the poster child of making something from nothing.

The U.S. was founded as an amalgamation. It has become an uneasy amalgamation--although many would argue the country has always been that as a hierarchy was there from the get go. I'm one of those who thinks that.

Our best cultural norm was, then, that we had no cultural norm but that we wanted to unite as a conglomerate. And we became a magnificent conglomerate for a very long time.


Hopefully the norm that will keep us together is appreciating our differences rather than fearing them as we also appreciate each others accomplishments blindly. We would probably like each other more if we knew less about each other and just assumed that the vast majority have a good heart somewhere beyond our iPhones.

Diamonds cost the most because of their hype. There is actually nothing more common. The word rare is a manufactured selling technique.

Diamonds are rare not because of "hype" but because of the cartel that controls the flow.

There are somewhere around 69 million married women in the U.S. the majority of whom have a diamond--big or small. Not even counting all the engagement rings and Tiffany necklaces and earrings out there, I can think of few things as common as diamonds---cartel or no.

Diamonds are loved and treasured for sentimental reasons and the slick advertising has done it's job.

There is great power in hype.

I like sapphires. You can obtain a pretty sapphire ring for under $1000.00. That would do me.

Blue & mauve/purple are my favourite colours.

Lapis lazuli, also blue, also pretty, described as metamorphic rock, makes a nice bracelet for under $20.00 or a sweet heart necklace for under $40.00. It is said to represent universal truth. From a young age I thought there was such a thing. Some painful bumps along life's road demonstrate maybe not so much.

I'm not one for the grand gesture and have-to-haves. I don't need diamonds in their bland whiteness - just bring me forget-me-nots and lilac blooms. And a blue ring of any shade. :)

I'm with you, Nightingale.

I have a small marble tray on my desk filled with butterflies, dragonflies, and beetles all jeweled brooches in all kinds of colored stones--but no diamonds. I have mixed in faux baroque pearls and worry stones in tiger's eye and amethyst.


When I was a kid I would lay in my bed in the basement with a beam of light coming through the small window at the top of the wall and I would hold a clear red or blue or amber marble up to the light and imagine the imperfections are the universe and I would day dream like that. I guess my treasure tray does the same thing.

They calm me. I can only be calmed visually and these are my treasures that make me happy. My $5 and $10 treasures.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would
> hold a clear red or blue or amber marble up to the
> light and imagine the imperfections are the
> universe and I would day dream like that.

Poetry, D


> these are my treasures that make me happy. My $5
> and $10 treasures.

The best

Hype is always there but it wouldn't work if all the diamonds were made available because that would destroy the rarity mystique They would then be essentially valueless. They are no different than oil which is high right now because of a controlled supply. One company DeBeers rigidly controls that supplu

DeBeer's does a great job of marketing. They still have maintained the status of owning a natural diamond with some flaws is better than a man made diamond that is almost perfect.

As a jeweler, I find diamonds to be both exquisite and a ridiculous investment. Well cut, good quality diamonds have no equal in terms of the way they capture and cast off light. But I wouldn't invest in anything large. It quickly becomes a liability and makes you a target, as Kim K found out.

On me of the world's largest users of small diamonds, under a quarter carat, is located in Salt Lake.

What about the (mostly male) love / addictions to porn?

Do our euorpean & other world-wide friends enjoy porn as much as we do?

America was set on the grounding edge as an experiment in pluralism, we adopted a civility and toleration towards different kinds of people, different beliefs, which is now expressed as opinionated beliefs and frankness, Europe was dominated by social hierarchies that not many tried to challenge and monoethnic systems. It's way of doing business is very sluggish.

Mexico was more dominated in history by social hierarchies based on who's spanish or not spanish, Juarez challenged it all by fighting the catholic church and Spaniards,

Consumerism is our social norm because throughout the first 300 years taxes were low, and the great west was vast and abundant, things are changing now though, overspending and inflation, and entitlements are taking over, people are becoming lazy, and expecting politicians to deliver on ridiculous promises, our best days maybe in the past.

But did those salad days have this many kinds of dressing?

https://www.nutritionix.com/grocery/category/salad-dressing/ranch-dressing/54



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2022 05:11PM by Elder Berry.

I notice from your graph that the density of the salad offerings increases over time.

The US was based on self-government. Everyone would pursue what they wanted to pursue as long as it didn't break the law or harm others. The concept is people would serve in public office for a few years and then leave and go back to their lives.

The problem is people in public office stopped being public servants and became professional politicians and then the wealthy bought these politicians and they started to favor the wealthy.

Today most the wealthy is a very small percentage of the population and they have bought the government and they own most the corporations. They have a global agenda and the old US constitutional model doesn't fit very well into it.

So it's really corporate fascism that people hate. It's different than just selling consumer products to the public or having a bunch of independent businesses providing products and services. It's the 1% colluding with the government dictating how your life is going to be ran.

Yup.

Sadly that pluralism, civility, and tolerance did not, in the beginning, extend to black people.

Or Native Americans.

You beat me to it. And they were not the only ones, just the first. Every group coming in was met with a lot of prejudice.

Yeah, I almost added the Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese, the Japanese, Asians in general, Germans, Muslims. . .

But Kentish defined the timeframe as "in the beginning," so I kept it simple.

Thank you Kentish for saying what I was itching to point out.

In Canada we are grappling with the history of how Indigenous/Aboriginal Peoples have been treated: the Inuit, Métis and First Nations.

Things we never learned in school.

And many only recently coming to light (i.e. the extent of the residential schools tragedy and its aftermath). People still being squashed by the soulless wheels of Government.

Such a big deal was made out of the appointment of Canada's first Indigenous Governor-General (Mary Simon, whose mother was Inuk).

We're supposed to be so proud of how "we" "tamed the country", created "civilization" etc.

If we really care we would do whatever it takes to put it right. Not still be grinding people down by refusing their claims for reparation.

And their appeals for clean drinking water in their communities.

Every Canada Day (July 1) and beyond I can't help but think of these things.

Colonialism has a lot to answer for.