There apparently was a video on social media by apostle Dale Renlund (who I have never heard of - I am out the loop I guess) clarifying the LDS teachings about MiH. SLTrib did n article about it a couple weeks ago.

He reiterated the same points in GC. Basic points: he wishes we knew more, and MiH is doctrinal and all, but we know hardly anything, and we should stop being ungrateful whiners and just shut up about her.

OK, those are my words, not his, but that was the general tone. Here is one quote of his words:

"Latter-day Saints “follow this pattern and direct our worship to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, and do not pray to Heavenly Mother,” he said. “Ever since God appointed prophets, they have been authorized to speak on his behalf. But they do not pronounce doctrines fabricated ‘of [their] own mind’ or teach what has not been revealed.”

Current church prophets “are similarly constrained,” Renlund said. “Demanding revelation from God is both arrogant and unproductive. Instead, we wait on the Lord and his timetable to reveal his truths through the means that he has established.”

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Arrogant and unproductive. Well OK then.

Here's my thoughts on the subject.

There are a number of reasons we don’t know more about MiH, and discussing her is really discouraged.

She is nameless. The reason is the 800 pound gorilla WRT MiH - how many MiHs are there and which one is our individual mother? If JS or BY had thought to answer that question, I’m thinking the spirit children would have had spirit races, and that’s how you would know who went with which mother.

She is faceless. We’re not even sure she is Scandinavian like Jesus.

She is voiceless.

Based on how she doesn’t interact with her children, she is either eyeless, earless, or powerless, or all three.

And if our earthly households are supposed to be foreshadowings of what heaven will be like, then how exactly is a woman supposed to behave in the household of faith? Deaf, blind and mute?

As the King said in "The King and I": It is a puzzlement. And kind of a downer when you think about it. Little wonder LDS women would like a status upgrade.

> She is faceless. We’re not even sure she is
> Scandinavian like Jesus.

LOL!

"But they do not pronounce doctrines fabricated 'of [their] own mind' or teach what has not been revealed."

So prophets never "speak as men"? Renlund has just closed off a favorite tactic of mormon apologetics.


Brigham Young - "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."
[JoD 10:110; March 8, 1863]

According to Renlund, this statement of Young's was "revealed" and "not fabricated of [his] own mind." Good luck with that, Dale.

Yeah, but Renlund was just "speaking as a man".

Ha! Ha! I won't share this with my nephew who got sealed to his black wife who he met on his mission while serving in Jamaica. It would be a real bummer.

The church is trying to hold onto it's history and reform at the same time. It's impossible. It's a real train wreck.

Haven't been here for years but just on Sunday my daughter, BIC, but never baptized, was scrolling the TV guide and jokingly said,"Mum, do you want to watch Mormon Conference" We left the church in the late 70's when she was three and we never looked back.

You know I don't think much about mormonism if I don't remember conference anymore.So when my daughter brought it up I decided to come check this board and see it anything has changed in conference and I see it hasn't.

Seeing this post I remember when I was active and went to the temple regularly and they talked about the God of this world. It was evident to me that Adam was the God of this world so that would mean Eve was the heavenly mother. I asked my Bishop and he about had a stroke and that was when he said that perhaps I was going to the temple too often. He said,"Remember as a kid when you would keep going to the cookie jar and eating so many cookies you got sick? Well too much of a good thing can be sickening?"

I was speechless and I thought how can the temple be sickening. I left thinking there is no way I believe this stuff and I never went back until my beloved and I were sealed. We left the church after 9 years.

I miss nothing about the Mormon church.

How much do you know about Black Holes? Would you like to know more?


;)

Thanks for the laugh.

Helen, nice to see you again here. Like a bad rash I never go away.

I will pray to mother in heaven that you got away with peace in your heart from your tender mercies in posting here.

Hi Phil. I remember you.Hope you are doing well.

I retired a few years ago. Last time I saw you on the board was 2003 when I hit the road. Over the years I checked in ocasionally until smart phones got up to snuff so then I was able to be more active. I'm still pretty much with the same attitude. I
do miss some of the old posters like you.

Praying to Mother in Heaven. May as well just give those uppity females the priesthood.

I think that the concept of Heavenly Mother having endless spirt babies was invented by someone who had never had a baby.

I seem to remember hearing a Mormon roommate praying to "Heavenly Father and Mother" back in the 1970s, but maybe she was just doing her own thing.

Funny. A whole paragraph of my patristical blessing talks about Heavenly Mother. I'm supposed to return to her with my spouse and give an accounting of my life on earth. It talks about Heavenly Father and Mother. It says Jesus gave me a blessing before I came down here.

The patriarch was really on a roll that day.

To recap, and a shorter version of my OP,

The Mother in Heaven problem is not going away for at least two reasons:

1) Having a Mother in Heaven, yet we are not allowed to talk to her, nor she to us, is just absurd. What family works like that?

2) The fact that according to current Mormon doctrine, women will be second class (or lower) citizens in Heaven for all eternity affects how women are treated in the here and now in the LDS Church.


When women have any power at all in Mormondom, it is because the men allow them to have some power. That cannot go on indefinitely. Women are noticing, and voting with their feet.

What family works like that?

A dysfunctional family, the kind they like because they depend upon the church.

Let's see if I can make a logical argument here...

Premise #1 - Having more wives is better.
Premise #2 - God is the best! And, everything about him is the best!

Therefore, God has the MOST wives.

Pres. Nelson has two, Brigham had about 50, King David supposedly had 500.
So, God must have at least 501 wives.

That's a problem, though, because 501 doesn't make any sense in an infinite universe.
Why would THAT be the number? Why not 600? Or 32,479? Or one million?
Also, what would stop someone from coming along and having 502 just to outdo God?

There are some numbers that make sense (at least to me).

ZERO works. God has zero wives. I could believe that.
ONE works, like a singularity. God has one wife. (Except, now he isn't even as good as Pres. Nelson.)
INFINITY works. God has an infinite number of wives. All of them. Nobody could possibly have more.

That means...Every woman is one of God's wives!
Congratulations, ladies!

Maybe THAT is why they don't want us to talk about Mother in Heaven?

>>That means...Every woman is one of God's wives!
Congratulations, ladies!

LOL. I feel so blessed!

Now we are left to wonder how many cows God's wives are worth. Infinite cows?

I mean, even if there were infinite wives, are they countably infinite or uncountably infinite? And do they all have separate clouds in Hilbert's Heaven? What happens if more show up - you know, like after they're raised to goddesshood? How about infinitely more?

Tyson, wondering if there's aleph-null poolboys available too

Ah you think too much. Don't get hung up on the mysteries of the gospel. The church is true. Now go take your Prozac and clean the toilets at meetinghouse.

I just need to know one thing....who's rib was she made from?

The whole mother in heaven thing is pointless.

Everyone knows if Dad says no just go ask grandma.

So which grandma in heaven?

Easy.

Heavenly Fathers mother. Only one so is easy.

When will they start giving matriarchal blessings?