That's when the priesthood must tell the woman how to behave because they are, of course, doing it "wrong".

They are: accusatory, always finding fault, critical, chastising, correcting, like some kind of masterful, ecclesiastical authority that must be obeyed.

They are right, it must be done their way, the Lord said so, and you are to get on your knees and comply, or else.
No discussion. No explanation is accepted. It's all about obedience to what they have to say.

They often use the soft sell: the nose to nose, knee to knee, double handed handshake approach or any combination of those. It's accompanied very often with that syrupy, condescending, voice: "now sister, the Lord wants you to know" approach that is used with 10 year olds.

Or they use the aggressive approach: shaking their finger in your face, telling you they will remember that
(whatever it is ) when you come in for a temple recommend interview.....


Didn't happen often, just a few times in my three plus decades in the LDS Church, but I was not about to tolerate such treatment, so I either walked out, or found a way to make sure they knew I was not pleased with how I was being treated.

Surely, I'm not the only one that experienced this!
Anybody else run into this kind of treatment?
How did you handle it?

Sister S. you have a problem with authority.

NO, they have a problem with authority! :-)

Then, there's the ignoring you because you're a woman, and only talking and making eye contact with the husband because he has the right genitalia.

It's the most disconcerting thing I ever experienced.
I make a statement, and the man looks at my husband and replies.
It's like: wait a minute, where did I go, am I invisible all of a sudden? HEY... I'm over here!!

It's even worse when you explain something and the male leader doesn't understand until my husband explained the same thing in slightly7 different words. They they "got it." What is with that?

Because, as you know, our bishop is the original low-life white trash but he persists in lecturing everyone about having high standards and keeping all the legalistic BS the church requires. It never occurs to him that people don't listen to him because they don't want to LOWER their standards to his level. Imagine Jethro Clampett having an evil twin and you'll be able to visualize this guy. When he talks down to me I want to say "But ...you are white trash. You are nobody. Why on EARTH do you think you can talk to me like that?" Seriously, I'm as puzzled as I am mad but I've found it's true. The most ignorent, less intelligent, worst mannered priesthood guys who have the least to recommend them are always the ones who think they can tell everyone how to live their lives. It's like "Geez, do something about becoming a better person yourself instead of lecturing me about it." I really can't take any priesthood guy seriously if he talks down to someone just because that person is a woman. It's so CAVE MAN. It just makes the guy look stupid. I had a friend who used to say in these situations "I'm SO embarrassed for you." Which did not go over well with the guys she said it to but which I loved. I don't usually go around dropping F-bombs but I think if the bishop ever decides to stop shunning me (which I really appreciate - the fact he completely ignores me, I mean) I wouldn't have a problem telling him to eff off. And laughing.

OK, rant over because I have to go pick up a kid from school :) lol.

OK, how do you edit on this new board. I can't believe I misspelled ignorant! I guess I'm qualified to be a bishop.

“May there be peace and harmony in your homes. Husbands, love and treasure your wives. They are your most precious possessions. Wives, encourage and pray for your husbands. They need all the help they can get. Parents, treat your children with great kindness. They are the coming generation who will bring honor to your name.” -Gordy Hinkley, closing remarks in the April 2007 Conference

Don't you just love how he subtly slips in there that your wife is a possession? Oh, and then he goes on to say that the Master of the house needs all the help he can get! Yeah, that makes it okay...

How did I miss that one?

“May there be peace and harmony in your homes. Husbands, love and treasure your wives. They are your most precious possessions. Wives, encourage and pray for your husbands. They need all the help they can get. Parents, treat your children with great kindness. They are the coming generation who will bring honor to your name.” -Gordy Hinkley, closing remarks in the April 2007 Conference

Like when our bishop lectured the combined Priesthood and RS and said, "Sisters, I see way too much cleavage at church. Cover up and save the cleavage for your husband."

One sister whispered to a neighbor, "If he sees that much cleavage he needs to look a little higher."

AMEN to SusieQ1. My bishop wanted me to come in and talk to him about my dh and my mess of a marriage. I was so patronized and NEVER listened to. It was all about dh. This was a 35 year old who had 0 experience with this kind of thing,but he wanted to "councel" me anyway. Your dh is right and you are wrong. The end. I went in again and it was worse the second time. Damn self-righteous bishops.

I have a dear friend who was asked to move to another ward,she refused,they left her alone for a while then a stake counsellor invited her for an interview,he began with,Sister....... you know in your heart we are an obedient people,therefore you will be moving to said ward,she obeyed and has never been happy since,this guy treats his wife dreadfully,she had to borrow money from him to visit her dying mother as she did'nt have the air fare,how sad is that.

I can't recall that happening to me until I witnessed it while working for the Church. That's when I began to realize that all it really was was a good ole boy's club.

It happened to me more when I was given blessings. "The Lord would remind you to respect the Priesthood." Yeah, right.

And when I tell them how sexist they sound they accuse me of being a "feminist". lol

I didn't really understand what I was experiencing until I learned something about TA---Transactional Analysis.

Then I saw that the commanding, critical tone was the other person acting in the Critical Parent position. When it was the syrupy, patronizing, condescending tone, the other person was being the Nurturing Parent. Both are seeking to boss and control. One is out in the open; the other is under the radar --being a covert bastard and still pushing the other to do what they "should."

It turns out that when anybody does that to us, we instantly are put into the Child position, which all of us instantly dislike because it is very demeaning to be treated like that.

We either respond by being openly rebellious or by being quietly rebellious and passively resistant.

The way to end it is to respond to the Parental crap with an Adult, matter-of-fact, informational response about what works for you and what doesn't.

The penishood likes to see women behave as Good Girls and many Molly Mormons oblige them. Then all is right with their world.

Good Girls have to take their antidepressants to endure to the end. WE are better off to act our age!

I have posted on this topic in the past. I didn't connect it to T.A. though.
But it sure fits!


From a prior post:

Parent-Child Relationship in Mormonism
Is Religion in general and Mormonism in particular, based on the Parent-Child Relationship?

I have often referred to the LDS Church/Mormonism as the Red Headed Step Child of Christianity. It takes it's cue from the Bible and uses the Parent-Child relationship in their own unique fashion.

Are Mormons typically very child-like in how they talk and behave as leaders how they parent, and how they treat their spouses and others?

Of course, not all Mormons are like this, however, there seems to be a preponderance of this child-like, parent-child relationship behavior and attitudes in the Mormon Church and it's generational culture.

Are these core beliefs: I am a child of God, the Bishop is the Father of the Ward, pray to Heavenly Father, etc, responsible for instituting a parent-child relationship in the LDS Church? Is their Line of Authority, which is all male, an extension of the parent-child relationship, right up the chain of command to Jesus, and to Heavenly Father? As a side note, I just assumed the Holy Ghost was male also! :-)

Do these basic core doctrines, and teachings produce child-like members who never mature into actualized adults in all facets of their lives. From my experience, I can say, firmly: YES!

As a young adult convert, I noticed that the Utah generational culture, in general, tends to talk in tones for teaching Primary aged children, and even some of the adult classes take on that tome.

It is more common with the women, but men do it also, in , just a little differently. They tend to talk "down" to women using a condescending tone, in particular as if they were talking to a 10 year old. Is it their notion of the "preacher voice" -- soft, supposedly "Christ like" and non-offensive? I think it is!

I have always objected to being talked to and treated like I was a ten years old. The child-like gentle, overly sweet, syrupy tone by husbands and wives was disrespectful, in my view. It was predominately Utah generational Mormons that exhibited that peculiar tone.

The epitome of that tone is, of course, GA Speak, or the GA drone. That adds the voice of authority into that very controlled gentle tone!

This tone and manner of speaking is, from my observation, a combination of the generational Utah accent or drawl, if you can call it that, and the child-like attitude demanded and expected from their teachings and reinforced in the day to day life relationships with others. Particularly other members.

I noticed these kinds of behaviors probably more acutely, because I was a young adult convert. I had never experienced anything like that before. I had culture-shock when I moved to Utah and lived in BYU Married Student Housing from Oregon.:-)

Did you feel like you were a child being governed and supervised by a parent: the bishop (father of the ward) and other leaders? Did the Bishop chastise you like he was your parent? Did he treat you like you were a child and could not be trusted?

As a woman, have you had the experiences of having a conversation with a male Mormon who looked at your husband and directed the reply to him as if you were not there? They tend to do that, almost automatically. Very odd.
I have never seen that anywhere else but in the LDS Church.

Did the "garment feel-up" come across as your mama checking to make sure you had your undies on and dressed properly to go outside? This is one of the weirdest intrusive things Mormons do. Don't they know that is rude, intrusive? Don't they know not to check other people's underwear? Where did this entitlement come from? Unbelievable!

I have had this happen many times. Disgusting behavior. I am sure I am not the only one! I just thought they were being friendly when they gave me a little hug, until they ran their hand across my back, and I could feel them checking my garment line under my outer wear! Once they determined I was "worthy" I was given even more loving acceptance!

The Parent-Child Relationship, leaving the LDS Church and becoming a mature adult.
Was this part of your process?

This excessive, authoritative control -- both overt and covert -- is the predominant reason why leaving the Mormon Church is fraught with so much consternation and confusion. Many are confused and confounded about how to change their world view from the child to the parent role.


It is as though the members have been told that one and one equal three and finding out that is incorrect is an intense blow. Their world has been turned upside down and now it is necessary to find a way to make life make sense with reliable, empirical factual means.

The process of extricating and untangling one's mind from being immersed in that regulated environment, in the parent/child role, with it's restraints, rules, unwritten expectations, and a long line of authority micromanaging every facet of one's life, is fraught with extreme exasperation, irritation, and aggravation, resulting in a roller-coaster ride of emotional turmoil.

This overwhelming process leaves the person confused and floundering for some semblance of sanity, scrambling to retain their self esteem, self respect and self confidence which is assaulted by the Mormon Thought Police at every turn. Ingrained thinking as a child leaves many adrift when the parent figure - the Mormon Church is discarded. Fortunately, I was a convert. I had a built in monitor that wouldn't let it completely control me!

Often, those leaving Mormonism find themselves questioning why they didn't see the falsity of it in the first place, recognize that they were children in a parent/child relationship with no real adult role, and beat themselves up in the process of their attempts to make sense of it all. It usually takes months to years to unravel and untangle the web Mormonism has woven in one's mind.

The tangled web Mormonism's parent/child role is woven in the minds of it's members is so subtle that most members are completely unaware of it's deep and lasting impact long after they have left the church.

As a convert, I realized that I did not appreciate being treated as a child, and once I left Mormonism behind, I could be an authentic adult. What wonderful freedom!

It's funny, but the concept of being a child of god has just not resonated with me. I was told to feel special because I was a beloved daughter of god. It just didn't feel that way. I guess I was too anchored in my current life for that to soothe or uplift me in any way.

When I was a very little kid, my father was explaining to me that I had an earthly father (him) and a heavenly father. I told him that I didn't want a heavenly father; I only wanted him! ;)

What a smart child I was!

And, yes, my screen name reflects standing equal with the gods and others. (And they with me.)

Just to add, I think this condescending attitude is bred into boys and men from very early on, poor things.

I can't count how many times--it was my entire life experience and I have a very difficult time with men to this day. I have a knee-jerk PTSD reaction to mormon men. My singles ward bishop even went so far as to tell me--when I told him that my boyfriend couldn't change to straight, that that was what my answers were--he'd shake his head and say, "No, Colleen . . . we have to do it THIS way."

Then my GOOD FRIEND who was a bishop at the time--I've said before--said to me, "The reason your husband cheated is because you didn't give him enough sex." I called this guy on the carpet for that one just a few years ago.

WE were stupid. They had ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the answers--

My boyfriend now tells me now (I don't know what I believe, but whatever)--"you don't have to go through some man to have a relationship with God"--

I hated it when the HT would say I didn't have the priesthood authority in my home. My home was so much more peaceful than any home I knew of--

Yep--WE WIMEN had to go through THEM to get answers for our lives--and we had to deal with 6 points of fellowship at the veil on top of that (but I still didn't care about the veil--as long as I didn't have to wear that baker's cap).

that anything a man does wrong is his wife's fault, including cheating.

Then there is the ridiculous notion that if the wife does something wrong, she is no longer worthy to be the man's celestial mate and he is justified in leaving and taking the kids with him, abandoning the mother/wife, with the support of the local bishop, etc. which might be financial. He gets help, she does not.

about a year b4 I left they cut off any and all help to me, so I started to wear T shirts and dirty sweatpants to sacrament...that really pissed off the old bish'!! He started treating me worse than ever so I continued to do this till the day I resigned and sent him a 9 page exit letter. Now I can smoke and drink in Peace!
but yes, all my ex had to do was to give me "the look" and we all knew what that was!! Even the evil eye syndrome and how I got yelled at by my exDH when we were back in the car for not respecting my exDH!! You are not alone in that situation.