My über-Mormon older sister is/can be a very toxic and controlling person, and she has tried a good part of my married life to peel my wife away from me based on my having left the church. But she is also a Hannity/Tucker person, and the two entertainers help mold her world outlook. Since my wife is a (rare) very liberal-but-active Mormon, my sister can only believe that I am a toxic male who, since leaving the church, has adopted godless liberalism, and is desperately trying to recruit my wife by demanding that she drop conservatism and adopt my liberal outlook. That mindset, and of course, the attempt to vilify me, makes me angry, and I express it from time to time. Also, she and her husband will go on about weird stuff, things like how "Biden raised the price of gasoline!". So two times now, I have reminded them that it is impossible for Biden or any other head of state in the world to control the prices of commodities, whether they be petroleum or pork bellies. This last time--Easter Sunday, when I mistakenly accepted an invitation to spend Easter dinner with them--I again corrected my BIL with the same fact, and he threatened to kick me out of the house. You know... On Easter. (In retrospect, I should have accepted the invitation to leave, and should have announced in a loud voice to everyone that, like Alan Rickman in "Galaxy Quest," "I'm going to find a pub!")

A typical Mormon thing: Of of my sister's repetitious, personal attacks, one is to paint me as "angry" for standing up for my beliefs, whilst she bangs on about the pureness of Mormonism and her own beliefs. I know a lot of you recognize this as typically Mormon. She identifies my wife as weak and easy to manipulate, and almost certainly conservative, if allowed to be; I, on the other hand, I have become a controlling husband, i.e., liberal, and all that. I love animals and nature, cats and dogs, believe in animal rights and preserving nature, a fact that she finds disturbing. I feed the squirrels in my yard, for god's sake, and that is just wrong--"they are RODENTS!" Things like that. She hates any references to animal rights, destroying woodland (a huge hobby of loggers and land developers here in the Pacific NW), dangerous farming techniques, etc. She demands that my demure wife not listen to me, but to her. I have spoken to my adult daughter and my wife about cutting it off with my sister, at least on a social level, and they think I'm entering dangerous territory. But, seriously, I need a rest and some distance.

Chime in: Some here know me. Do you have me pegged as "toxic?" "Angry?" "Libtard?" (Actually, I'm proud when people call me "libtard." I'm quick to tell them that they're showing how they probably don't read and/or are perhaps under-educated. It's mean, but it works.) I need a break, and possibly a bit of a nap and a juice box. Since my sister is my only sibling, is it wrong or dangerous to put a distance between the two of us? Any advice how to do it the right way?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2022 01:37PM by cludgie.

People like your sister have a lot of tricks up their sleeves as most controlling narcissistic types do. When they can't use reason to disarm you---which they rarely even tr--- they resort to two cheap tricks. One is claim you are angry. The other is you can't take a joke. They use these when they are offensive and you refuse to take it and put them in their place. To get out of it they call you angry or say you have lost your sense of humor because cheap tricks is all they got.

I go through this a lot. It is not fun. No more holiday dinners for you with them, buster! I mean it.

I have read your posts for years, cludgie, when you drop in. You are not scary nor angry in the least. You are often rather charming.

And another thing while I'm on the subject . . .

The ties that bind.

Blood is thicker than water is a proverb in English meaning that familial bonds will always be stronger than other relationships.

I think the English got it bloody wrong. Stronger? As in ties that may be chains? At least for a significant number of us who got it stuck in our head that blood relatives always trumped everyone else.

I know it's difficult but you really need to do this for your brother. Why? Because he's your brother and that's what we do.
But he is so condescending to me and I can't stand it and besides I told my friend Kevin I'd help him build the coop today. Well Kevin is not your brother. Now do the right thing.

What are you getting for your sister for her wedding? I wasn't going to get anything because she's nasty to me. I wasn't even going to go. Well what kind of a person are you that isn't there for your sister? Imagine how it will look if ALL her family isn't there? She really wants that china she picked out . . . really badly. You know that.

What do you mean you aren't going to your mother's funeral? Oh don't kid yourself. Me claiming to be too sick to go would be exactly what she would want. Why on earth would you say that? Because her goal in life was to make sure no one knew she had a gay son. Me not being there in the midst of all who knew her is my final gift to her. To her grand "family honor". Oh, I see. So, it's all about you?


Blood can be a tool just like anything else. You can use it for good or for evil, or, even, just to annoy, or, worse, to control.


Now. Shall we talk about blood's cousin, duty?

My blood under a slide looks like fat globules suspended in corn syrup. That pretty much describes my "blood" relatives, too.

HahahahahaahaHAHHAHHAH

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

I think your post mirrors so much of what is going on right now. The Mormonism issue just adds an additional layer. There is no longer political discussion. It has been replaced with name calling designed to demonize. I have a good friend who is convinced we are about to slip into full blown communism. As long as we don't talk politics we get on fine,though those conversations will be few since he is set to move away to some deserted spot away from the world.

Do not allow others to define you or your outlook on the world. They are the ones with the stunted world view, not you

Soft Machine: My granddaughter and husband, daughter and husband, are in Paris right now enjoying a great visit. Wish I was there, too. It beats being sick and taking care of my wife who is also sick. No fun at our house right now.

Mormons can't keep their mouths shut. As a mormon, I never tried to share my beliefs or my politics.

I've had issues with my family for a long time. Mostly my sisters. But when my son ended up in the hospital, my whole family rallied around me including the two sisters. They just don't speak to each other. We take turns. BUT THEN, my last sibling is on her way out of the church. We do have a disabled brother who goes to my parents' old ward and his lifetime ward and some of the people are really good to him. It is good for him to go. Otherwise, I don't have any believers in my family. That HELPS. Oh, wait, my daughter is a TBM, but she has calmed down that she is married. Her husband is great.

Speaking of controlling: who gets all up in somebody's face about what they do in their own yard, if it's not harming anybody, such as feeding squirrels. And why would somebody be against preserving nature. We should all have an interest in doing so.

I'm no expert, especially about Mormon dynamics, but I'd say listen to yourself - if you feel you need a break, go for it - you owe it to your own mental health and your poor frayed nerves. Take the nap, enjoy the break, drink the juice. It's not like you're asking a lot from the universe.

I get what you mean about being torn because it's your only sib but you know the old adage: First, save yourself. Your mind and body are talking to you. Listen. A break doesn't have to be forever but the distance will be relaxing. Nothing wrong with that.

If she's saying that to his face, imagine what she says behind his back.

I like the "you're just saying that cuz you're angry" part. Okay, who's projecting?

I would say, reduce the frequency with which you see her. And when you do see her, it might help to center your visit around a shared activity, i.e. a museum trip, a baseball game, miniature golf, etc. That reduces the need for political discussion.

I think you're wife should address it.

Cludgie, you are perfectly calm and reasonable, at least compared to me. Your sister sounds like she's trying to turn people against you and make you seem like the horrible one instead of her. Done & Done is right to say that it sounds like a narcissist's tactic. I say, "Burn those bridges."

As for "blood is thicker than water," if memory serves, the full saying is "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." Crappy families leaving that part out is surely coincidence /s.

Of course, I'm a bisexual male liberal, so anything I say will be disregarded by your sister.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2022 05:19PM by ookami.

I'm bi and that scares people more than political leaning. I'm sure she thinks libertarians are evil.

Hey, scaring people is better than being told "you're just gay in denial."

As for libertarians, do I agree with them? No. Do I think they're evil? Nope.

ookami Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, scaring people is better than being told
> "you're just gay in denial."
>

Depends on who is judging. I've been told I'm hetero and I just want more sex or to play. I've been told I'm gay but don't want to home wreck myself. I've had people want to date me knowing I'm married and tell me my wife is a controlling beach. I've heard a lot and the loud and clear is I'm threatening in some ways I don't understand.

We live in a polarized and polarizing culture. I guess that is the gist of this thread.

a category that doesn't fit the approved narrative. I still get told by people that my husband chose to be gay. If anyone knows he didn't IT WOULD BE ME and if I can accept that that is who he is, then why should any of them have any input?

I have stated I find myself in a fellowshipping position after my son got sick. I didn't go to the lunch planned by my neighbor (whose husband just happened to be put in the bishopric just before my son was admitted). She has lunches planned for the summer and I'm on the list. I told my therapist and he grinned and said--they're already after you.

FOR THIS ONE REASON if not all the others I have, I cannot believe in the church. It is not their business to decide for us who we are.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> FOR THIS ONE REASON if not all the others I have,
> I cannot believe in the church. It is not their
> business to decide for us who we are.

Amen.

"Family - The Ties That Bind and Gag."

If you're tallying votes, I vote you stay away from her for a while. A short email now and then is plenty of contact with someone like her.

I also have a sibling problem. Cutting them off is easier said than done. The worry, the guilt, the fear, the self doubt. But for me, distance gives me a little relief from the Yama Yama - the echoing of their inane words through my head at 3:00 in the morning. You know what they say is nonsense but you still feel compelled to respond. Better to limit contact to an occasional email.

Boundaries, ya know?

I vehemently pity those type of people. I have one in my life also. Imagine how an uneducated person will believe any shock jocks blindly, believe something so obviously false without investigating if there is any truth in the matter! Yet they will pick apart anything against their cause if it makes sense or not.

They could hold a doctorate degree and still be uneducated.

Oh wait, that is what TBMs do. Same line of thinking. Easily swayed to the dark side while calling it light. Pity pity pity.

I don’t fight it, I hang up on a call if it starts. I leave when together if it starts. Lately it is rare. Imagine the frustration that person receives when no one will listen to their rubbish. Will it change them? No pity.

There should be a diagnosis for people who allow others to control them without any logical sense.

TSCC thrives on this type of people. I was one but saw the light. Seeing the light is not acceptable.

I would not argue, just walk away. Start another conversation with someone else, and ignore. If all else fails I find a “whatever” as I exit a success.

After I graduated from my masters degree, and would no longer have a dual relationship, I saw my old professor for counseling. She was the most knowledgeable person that I had ever met for understanding human behavior.

She told me that my family was a danger to my mental well being. And advised that I stay away from them.

I thought my family treated me wrong. But that dumping them was kind of drastic. And didn't take her advice.

Fast forward 12 years. And many wrongs later. I was banned from my best friend/brother's funeral by my older sister who seems like a milder version of yours. And was wronged by two other family members at that same horrible time. So I divorced them all.

Only after completely cutting them off, did I see just how bad they were. My new wife's family, who can't even speak English, are so much more supportive to me than my own family was.

I tell you this for you to consider where continuing a relationship with known bad people could ultimately lead. Perhaps consider cutting the cord now vs after it becomes even more damaging. I'm stubbornly optimistic, so it took something even more severe for me to take the professors advice. But it was so much more damaging too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2022 01:24AM by DNA.

I'd say put as much space between you and your sister as you feel like you need. If it's permanent "no contact," that's your right and your call.

I've ultimately separated myself from my brothers, half-sister and step mother. Things were never great, but after my dad passed away the relationships fell apart completely. But most of my TBM family members were officially shunning me by that point anyway (because I'm candid about my thoughts on Mormonism when it comes up).


TBMs seem to have a twisted view of anger. At least in my family.

They'll badger me until I get agitated, and then whine that I'm "angry". Anger is a VALID EMOTION under certain circumstances.

My TBM brother will say I have an "anger problem," but the problem is that I stand up for myself and my family.

Almost every interaction with him ends up frustrating me, and his response is that "you're always angry." Me: "no, not always, but you always make me angry."

Interacting with him inevitably irritates me. He has no perspective on the vast majority of time that he doesn't spend with me. When I'm HAPPY!


To him, "anger management" is pretending that you're not angry -- and smiling -- when you actually ARE angry. He masks the anger and pretends not to experience it. I think it's reasonable to express anger in appropriate ways (e.g. hang up the phone, ignore an email, disallow manipulation, control and bullying, speak up for yourself, etc). And an inappropriate counter-example would be engaging in violence, of course. Ironically, the only person who has ever physically assaulted me in my adult life is this same TBM brother.

Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

That's probably their way of saying "I can't understand (or don't want to)/ have empathy/ care [about whatever subject, or even relationship]; of saying they are fine [and you are the problem] and dandy; of excusing their own behavior.

I dunno, Cludgie, I always thought you seemed kinda pleasant.