I posted in another thread: I remember the days of back alley and coat hanger abortions. I don't want to go back to that. I thought that we, as women, were safe from that.

This is currently circulating on Facebook. Are the women's names true? Probably not. But each name represents something that has really happened to women, multiple times over.

I'm not pro-murdering babies.

I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs. I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later. I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.

I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal. I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her. I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.

I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses. I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail. I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child. I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.

I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager. I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding. You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is: I'm pro-life.Their lives. Women's lives.

You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.

Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!

------------------------------------------------------------------

My mother was "Courtney." She had an ectopic pregnancy between my brother and myself. She wanted that baby. But both her and the baby would have lost that fight if she had been forced to carry the pregnancy. My mom was at a teaching hospital, and she told me that she was quite the sensation on the ward. Multiple teams of physicians, residents, interns and nurses came to see her on rounds.

In the bad, old days, one of the provisos for allowing abortions was if the mother's life was in danger. That caused an awful lot of reviews and fights. Do hospitals really have nothing better to do than to decide if a mother "deserves" to have an abortion?

Most people alive now don't remember those days. I do. We really, really do not want to go back to that.

...though I didn't start out that way. Abortion should be available, safe, and legal.

I’m in your camp. Abortion became legal my senior year in High School. I did not expect I would live to see it outlawed again.

Only a soul-less selfish bigot could read that and still be anti abortion.

But... God.

I will never understand how someone can square the circle of mother and unborn child and place predominance on the child. It literally is making women inanimate objects.

Yes! Thank you!

I love this post. Whoever can read the whole thing and then say, "abortion should be illegal no matter what" is not a caring, humane person.

I had an abortion once when birth control failed, "I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child."- that was me.

I have also been raped, which thankfully did not result in a pregnancy. I cannot imagine if it had happened and I was forced to carry the pregnancy. That is sick and inhumane. I still have mental and emotional issues from mine, even though the rape happened a decade ago. If I had to go through an entire pregnancy, or be forced to raise the resulting child, I cannot even imagine the damage that would cause to a persons psyche.

I really do try to see where the anti-choice people are coming from, and I guess I can understand why they would not make the choice themselves, but to take away that choice from others--- who ARE THEY to take away that right? It makes me so angry and I am heartbroken if this is really going to happen, what will happen to all these girls and woman forced to carry, not to mention the resulting children that might be born into poverty, be born to women who end up resenting them, or the child who feels forgotten and unloved? Or the women who die from complications from botched unsafe abortions. Or those who die from the fetus literally killing them. Or, even those children who are born with severe birth defects or die within days of birth.

How is ANY of that fair?

When I was kid in the fifties and sixties, there were wire hanger dramas on television which I saw. My mother and older brother assumed I wasn't understanding any of it as in those days a lot was just alluded to rather than spelled out or shown. But I did get it and I got the extreme terror of the girls involved as they headed into some horrid backstreet apartment.

I never want to see that again. The male dominated religious right is simply treating women like they don't matter at all.

"Extreme terror."

That is a perceptive remark. What the prohibition of abortion does is expose countless girls and women to "extreme terror."

Those who would deprive them of their bodily autonomy want countless women to live their daily lives in conditions of "extreme terror" that men never experience. How can the genders possibly be equal legally, socially, or politically when that is the case?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conditions of "extreme terror" that men
> never experience.

This reminds me of comments I wanted to make but thought maybe would not come across right, as in reverse sexism. But here goes.

Generally, males have greater physical strength than females do. This obviously gives them great advantage if it comes to physical confrontation. Most men can overcome most women's attempts to physically protect themselves if they are being assaulted. I have wondered if boys/men ever think of this or have any concept of how that feels.

Too, it should be clear but apparently is not to some: rape is not "sex". The latter is a consensual and mutually enjoyable activity. The former is a violent criminal assault which causes physical, emotional and psychological injury, often long-lasting.

> Too, it should be clear but apparently is not to
> some: rape is not "sex". The latter is a
> consensual and mutually enjoyable activity. The
> former is a violent criminal assault which causes
> physical, emotional and psychological injury,
> often long-lasting.

"Often long-lasting"--as in multigenerational. Expecting a woman who has been raped to be able to provide loving, nurturing care for a baby when that child is the inevitable product and symbol of her trauma is delusional.

So what happens? Despite her best intentions the woman shortchanges the child, who grows up emotionally damaged and unable fully to fulfill his potential with regard to those with whom he interacts--including his children.

Supporting an ideology (in this case religious) requires the sacrifice of evidence, reason, and humanity.

The origins of these blind cruelties are ultimately a problem of mind.

Don’t forget the tubal pregnancies. Before both mother and baby died.

I was around before Roe v wade and yes hangers were used in border Mexico towns and probably in the states too. Some cheerleaders in my school took quick European holidays to take care of business.

Another thing, in the 1960s and probably before if you were an unwed mother most businesses would not hire you. Most unwed mothers were forced into adoption if they wanted it or not. Being forced to give up your child is traumatic too.

The law needs to stay out of womens health. Why aren’t they meddling into mens health?

Forced sterilizing is not politically advantageous.

Turing was prosecuted in 1952 for homosexual acts. He accepted hormone treatment with DES, a procedure commonly referred to as chemical castration, as an alternative to prison.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forced sterilizing is not politically
> advantageous.
>
> Turing was prosecuted in 1952 for homosexual acts.
> He accepted hormone treatment with DES, a
> procedure commonly referred to as chemical
> castration, as an alternative to prison.
His monumental aid to the Allies winng world war 2 aka the computer took second place to political vengance for his sexual preferences.
I am straight! I have no inherant right to decide what you are!!!

wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why
> aren’t they meddling into mens health?
===============================

Because it is not about health, it is about control.

Another major problem will the prosecution for Illegal Abortion of expectant mothers who spontaneously Abort. The "right" prosecutor will insist in taking to court the evil mother who aborted the child, claiming she did it on purpose.

It will happen.

Louisiana is going to insure this happens: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/05/05/louisiana-abortion-bill-would-make-crime-murder/9656102002/

Pardon me for being old and ignorant.

Isn't "spontaneous abortion" the same as "miscarriage?" If I'm understanding this correctly, it isn't something you choose. It just happens. Many times, it is tragic, because the mother really wanted that baby. Surely, this can't be something to be prosecuted. . .

It's hard to feel sorry for these overactive teenagers with too many hormones. Wheres the fathers I have to ask? Probably cut out because of easy access to government benefits, if girls make mistakes they should pay or do adoption, there are ways of solving problems besides forcing society to deal with the mess.

I guess my views differ from most posters on the board in that I see compassion as not enabling irresponsible behavior, compassion is telling it straight, giving these dumb kids the brutal facts of life.

It's a boon to society that you don't have significant influence on public policy. Unfortunately, some who are not a whole lot brighter DO have influence. I fear for all of us.

scmd1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a boon to society that you don't have
> significant influence on public policy.
> Unfortunately, some who are not a whole lot
> brighter DO have influence. I fear for all of us.

+1000000

I could not agree more.

Your statements are woefully under-informed, Maca. You make so many comments that seem like satire (bad satire) that I wonder if you're playing games - at best.

Rapists who deposit their sperm in violent assaults are not "fathers".

And who said the only victims of rapists are "teenagers"?

You say "...giving these dumb kids the brutal facts of life". Is that part of the "compassion" you endorse?

Your views differ because they're not based in reality. You seem to think the only reason women get abortions is because they're having irresponsible sex.

What about the men or boys or fathers that impregnated these women. What penalty to they get? Oh that is right nothing.

Ps not all women faced with the problem choose abortion. It is choice.

If reversed your taxes will go up because all the drug and alcohol addicted babies will fill the neonatal units.

There won’t be an influx of perfect babies just more damaged babies that the pro life people won’t adopt. If they care so much about the babies right to live what aren’t they adopting the damaged babies.

I think you are feeding a troll, but...

"What about the men or boys or fathers that impregnated these women. What penalty to they get? Oh that is right nothing."

Except losing a pretty big chunk of their paycheck for 18 years. How does the state handle that one?

So, the girl/woman has ALL the consequences and the dick that did it has NONE. This says sooooo much about you Maca. How about this. As soon as a boy starts to produce viable sperm we clip said dick and once he is in a committed (for you married) relationship, has enough money in the bank and a good enough LONG TERM job/profession we put said dick back together. PERFECT solution! Win win.

Maca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to feel sorry for these overactive
> teenagers . . . . // . . . not enabling
> irresponsible behavior, compassion is telling it
> straight, giving these dumb kids the brutal facts
> of life.
===============================

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/14/upshot/who-gets-abortions-in-america.html


(or simply search "demographics typical abortion seeker")

Spoken like a true incel.

I heard Gloria Allred on CBC this morning. I knew of her work as a campaigner for women’s rights and have heard and seen her statements in many high profile cases. I didn’t know of her personal story that was the impetus for the work she does with such passion and understanding.

Here's an article from CNN about Gloria (2019):

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/us/gloria-allred-abortion-protests/index.html

Excerpts:

“Women’s rights lawyer Gloria Allred is opening up about an abortion she had in the 1960s after she was raped at gunpoint in Mexico.”

“The sexual assault happened while Allred was on vacation in her 20s, she said, and forced her to get an illegal abortion after she returned to the United States.

“I had to get a back-alley abortion in a bathtub from a person who was not licensed, they were just doing it for the money,” she said. When she started hemorrhaging after the procedure, the person who performed the procedure told her it was her problem now, she said.

“The attorney said she knows from experience what happens when abortion is criminalized. During her ordeal, she was hospitalized with a fever of 106 degrees – surrounded by women who’d had illegal abortions, she said.

“The only time a hospital would admit a woman like me was if she was bleeding to death from an abortion,” she said. “The nurse said to me, ‘This should teach you a lesson.’ The lesson I did learn is that abortion should be safe, legal, affordable and available.”



CBC Article (2019):

“Lawyer and feminist Gloria Allred talks about the rape and resulting abortion that galvanized her determination to fight for women's rights. "A woman shouldn't have to be ashamed," she tells CBC's Rosemary Barton.”

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1242190915728

-----

I confess to making assumptions when I heard Gloria say she was raped in Mexico. A major detail was included in the CBC interview that I don’t see in the CNN article – that her rapist was a doctor who during their date stopped in the hospital to check on patients, then subsequently raped her at gunpoint. After she returned home she discovered she was pregnant, which led to her seeking an abortion.

It’s easy for people to say it’s not “the child’s” fault their sperm source was a rapist so the female should not abort the pregnancy. But it should be perfectly understandable that she does not want to carry and birth his child. It should be obvious that rape is an exceptionally violent and traumatic event but that major fact seems overlooked by many in this heated debate.


***SENSITIVE INFO BELOW***

Psychological and Physical Effects of Rape:

https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/rape/effects-of-rape-psychological-and-physical-effects-of-rape

Excerpts:

“The effects of rape can include both the initial physical trauma as well as deep psychological trauma. Although rape victims commonly report injuries and issues with their reproductive health after the sexual assault, rape doesn't always involve physical force. The most common and lasting effects of rape involve mental health concerns and diminished social confidence.

Physical Effects of Rape

“Physical effects of rape can arise from both forced sexual assault and those not involving forcible submission, such as drug-assisted date rape. Forced sexual assault frequently causes visible bruising or bleeding in and around the vaginal or anal area and bruises on other parts of the body from coercive violence. But both forced and other types of rape can have many other physical consequences:

*Painful intercourse (with significant other)

*Urinary infections

*Uterine fibroids – non-cancerous tumors in muscle wall

*Pregnancy

*Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) – HIV, genital warts, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and others


Psychological Effects of Rape

“Victims experience both short and long-term psychological effects of rape. One of the most common psychological consequences of rape is self-blame. Victims use self-blame as an avoidance-based coping tool. Self-blame slows or, in many cases, stops the healing process. Other common emotional and psychological effects of rape include:

*Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) – feelings of severe anxiety and stress

*Depression

*Flashbacks – memories of rape as if it is taking place again

*Borderline personality disorder

*Sleep disorders

*Eating disorders

*Dissociative identity disorder

*Guilt

*Distrust of others – uneasy in everyday social situations

*Anger

*Feelings of personal powerlessness – victims feel the rapist robbed them of control over their bodies


Aftermath of Rape

“The aftermath of rape involves a cluster of acute and chronic physical and psychological effects. It's important that victims receive comprehensive care that addresses both the short and long-term effects of rape as they become apparent. Frequently a victim's intimate relationship, if present prior to the assault, disintegrates within one year after the rape. This only adds to the psychological impact of the rape on the victim. Victims of extremely violent rape, or those who were assaulted repeatedly or at a very young age, may need treatment for the rest of their lives.”

-----

In today's CBC interview, Gloria recalls the nurse's comment to her after the abortion in her 20s, necessitated after a violent assault by a medical doctor: "This should teach you a lesson". "It did teach me a lesson", Gloria said today, "but" [paraphrase] likely not the one the nurse had in mind.

That was when Gloria saw her clear path ahead: to advocate for women's rights, which she continues ably doing to this very day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2022 02:04PM by Nightingale.

This one is easy for me.
You should try really hard to not need an abortion.

But, if you NEED one, you should be able to GET one.

Whether or not you need one is between YOU and your doctor or your priest or your parents or the father or your therapist or whatever deity you believe in.

I would never try to make that decision for you and I sure as hell wouldn't let some government official make that decision for you.

I’m not “Pro-killing babies” I’m “Anti Women dying from botched back alley hanger abortions.”

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m not “Pro-killing babies” I’m “Anti
> Women dying from botched back alley hanger
> abortions.”


That describes me, too, Schrodie.

Luckily I've never been alone and terrified over a pregnancy. As for other women, their choices are not my business, nor should it be the government's business.

I am however, glad Kermit Gosnell is in prison.

Kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for other women, their choices are
> not my business, nor should it be the government's
> business.

This is the crux of the matter.

We should each stay in our own lane. I have my beliefs and choices, you have yours. Maybe I can advocate for my preferences (or knock on your door offering you free magazines, haha) but I don't believe in forcing you to accept my opinions, principles, beliefs or personal choices.

It seems about that simple. You can express your opinions but you shouldn't seek to force them on others. Not in a democracy anyway.

One more point; If the so-called "pro-life" people were all about preventing abortions, then they would have no objection to comprehensive sex education (age appropriate, and available as early as elementary school, if necessary,) and easily available birth control. Girls (and boys) should have access to free, highly effective birth control through their middle school and high school health suites. Adults should also have access to free, easily available birth control.

But this is not really about preventing abortions, is it? Because if it were, these measures would already be available nation-wide. This is instead about controlling women, and about controlling freedom of birth control and reproduction. The religious nutters must have control in all regards.

You nailed it, summer. "Comprehensive sex education" and "easily available birth control."

Any female capable of reproducing should have access to appropriate methods of birth control, and the education to use it.

Why don't I include males here? Because when you get right down to it, they don't have to live with the consequences of unintended pregnancy if they choose not to.

I was never the class clown, but how come since the invention of birth control the Earth's population has exploded to 8 billion?

Easy solution. As soon as a boy starts to produce viable sperm, do a reversable vasectomy. If and when they can prove they are stable, have and make a reasonable amount of money now and in the future, provide a bond to support any children they may have, they can have it turned back on. Oh, and of course provide DNA testing so any children will be identified as theirs.

Let's make Dr. Snip mandatory!

DrSnip.com

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy solution. As soon as a boy starts to produce
> viable sperm, do a reversable vasectomy. If and
> when they can prove they are stable, have and make
> a reasonable amount of money now and in the
> future, provide a bond to support any children
> they may have, they can have it turned back on.
> Oh, and of course provide DNA testing so any
> children will be identified as theirs.
>
> Let's make Dr. Snip mandatory!
>
> DrSnip.com


But they aren't always reversible. I know this because my husband had a vasectomy reversal after getting snipped at his ex wife's behest. Technically, it was successful, but not successful enough.

Vasectomy reversals are much more expensive and a hell of a lot more involved than vasectomies are. I really hate it when people propose vasectomies as a solution to this problem, even in jest. It reminds me of when I hoped to become a mother and couldn't, because my husband did the "responsible" thing for his horrible ex wife, who then alienated his children.

I would be content to just provide young people with contraception and education. I would never advocate for pressuring or mandating elective surgeries on anyone. I would be horrified if someone suggested to me that I should get my tubes tied to prevent pregnancy. That's why I would never suggest that men undergo surgery for someone else's benefit, even though men are the ones who cause unintended pregnancies.

I wish like hell my husband hadn't had a vasectomy. I would have loved to have had his baby.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2022 09:41AM by knotheadusc.

I suspect Susan was being ironic, trying to show how appalling a comparable intrusion into the personal autonomy of men would be perceived by society.

Correct. If this was about men's bodies it would be a whole other story. Example, insurance that doesn't cover birth control but does cover boner pills. And knotheadusc, I am sorry it is an issue for you. I really am. But bottom line it was his choice. What if he was denied the opportunity to do it and ended up with 6 more kids with that crazy woman. Bottom line it is about owning your own body.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bottom line it is about owning your
> own body.
===============================

Exactly.

The only distinctive male-only intrusive requirement is selective service.
They can put a rifle in our hands and force us to fight their wars.

Susan I/S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct. If this was about men's bodies it would
> be a whole other story. Example, insurance that
> doesn't cover birth control but does cover boner
> pills. And knotheadusc, I am sorry it is an issue
> for you. I really am. But bottom line it was his
> choice. What if he was denied the opportunity to
> do it and ended up with 6 more kids with that
> crazy woman. Bottom line it is about owning your
> own body.

It seems to me that if your proposal is about “owning your own body”, you should want that for everyone.

As for the vasectomy being my husband’s “choice”, technically that’s true. But he was certainly “pressured” in making that choice, as are a lot of men.

I don’t think it’s right to deny women access to abortion. I don’t think it should be anyone else’s business if someone wants to terminate a pregnancy.

But I also don’t think it’s right to propose forcing surgery on anyone. As you wrote, it’s about “owning your own body”. In my opinion, that idea should apply universally. I totally agree that birth control should be covered by insurance or even free of charge. Seems like common sense.

Oh, sure, I know it’s not a serious proposal. The United States would have to radically change on many levels for vasectomies on young males to be “mandatory”. I just cringe when I see people propose them, even in jest, because I know from real experience what vasectomy reversals entail. I also know that there are many wonderful, egalitarian men in the world who don’t deserve to be lumped in with men who want to deny women’s reproductive rights.

I think Susan knows that I am on her side on the abortion issue. But my husband is a true stand up guy, who had a vasectomy for his ex wife, so she wouldn’t have to worry about pregnancy anymore. She claimed it was too “hard” for her. She repaid him later by ruining his relationships with his children, then having two more kids with her next husband.

Meanwhile, I wanted children with him, and couldn’t have them without significant medical assistance and expense. Though he is a great father who doesn’t have an abusive bone in his body, he missed out on raising his kids with her, and I missed out on knowing my stepchildren. This was all because my husband got “snipped” as a kindness to someone who certainly was not kind to him.

I now realize it was a blessing that he had the vasectomy, since she obviously wasn’t done having children and would have had more, saddling him to her for that many more years. And I have come to realize that maybe it’s better that I don’t have children. I certainly wouldn’t trade my husband for the chance to have a child of my own.

Still, I just would have liked to have had the option.

I don’t think the answer to fixing the reproductive rights issue is to propose mandatory surgeries for males, even as a joke. I totally understand the sentiment behind why people say vasectomies should be mandatory, but I know that reversing them isn’t a simple thing, and it doesn’t always work. And, like I said, I would be outraged if my husband proposed that I have elective surgery for his benefit. Since I know he would never do that to me, I would not want to do that to him, or anyone else.

Also, I have noticed that some people actually take the vasectomy proposal seriously, and think they are easily reversed. They really aren’t. Vasectomies are meant to be permanent birth control. It’s irresponsible to present them as an option that can be easily undone, because while many man can regain their fertility after that procedure, not all men can.

So ends my book. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2022 01:27AM by knotheadusc.

The sheer arrogance and inhumanity of court or government abusing their power, removing the right of freedom of the individual to deliberate and decide, is an obscenity. This especially is painful and fraught as is.

I am anti anyone mandating their dogma and belief upon us --
from the left, or from the right.

It kind of reminds me of Dredd Scott. Sorry folks, slavery is up to the states even though we know half the states are pro-slavery. So on a technicality we're not considering it a federal issue.

Yes, Summer, so am I. And that doesn't mean I'm "pro" abortion, but sh*t happens and ruining lives (often both the mother's and the bab y's) to please someone's "god-given" moral stand is too high a price to pay.

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Summer, so am I. And that doesn't mean I'm
> "pro" abortion, but sh*t happens and ruining lives
> (often both the mother's and the bab y's) to
> please someone's "god-given" moral stand is too
> high a price to pay.

Yes, this is where I'm coming from too.

Not pro. Just pro free choice. A person should be free to make their own choices and to express their individual viewpoints. On both sides of the aisle, whether it be a political aisle or a church aisle or any forum outside either.

Reasonable people settle for compromise as in I'll make my choices, you make yours. Within the basic constraints of law and society.

It's the latter part that gets thorny. If unjust laws are enacted there will be pushback. Maybe this cycle will always be the case. What we think is settled law and basic common sense is not, after all, written in stone. We can't even agree at this point on what is unjust.

My mom was TBM Mormon but she was pro-choice. She was a nurse and worked in hospitals when abortion was illegal. She saw the carnage of amateur and self-abortions first hand.

She said you can't legislate morals and women need to have the right to see a doctor in private and decide what to do. So my mom differed from her conservative friends. She was a maverick.

That being said my dad's best friend was a doctor who performed abortions. In his retirement he admitted he was haunted from performing them. He admitted it was not a pleasant process and he was having mixed emotions about what he did. One thing he did say is he made the mother aware of all the options available and made her think about what she was doing.

So I guess that's where I fall. You can't legislate morals and nobody kills more people than a government. Washington DC and morals is an oxymoron. So yeah the mother can go and get an abortion in a professional sage environment and she has to live with her decision and that's hers to decide. What that means to the universe or what karma comes from it well that's up to the universe.

Abortion is a grey area and life is grey in some areas instead of a simple black or white.

I agree that the abortion is morally ambiguous. But the right to control one's own body is not.