+ Highly educated + Moved up the corporate ladder very quickly + personally valued an education
But, didn't extend those educational values to you, his daughter...
+ The only time you hear about the daughters in glowing terms are to describe their eye color, blonde hair (weirdly they're bottle blonds) or when their uteruses are popping out another child? + Seemed to have given none of his children any advice on financial literacy, including finding a husband who can support you and his grandchildren; and, is + Totally fine with his adult daughters and now grandchildren living in poverty.
These fathers suck. A baby-making factory is most important.
My nevermo greatest-generation dad wanted both my brother and me to get a college education. He had had to work his way through school, and wanted to spare us that. Back in my childhood, it was never really expected in professional families that the wife would have to work. But my parents wanted me to be able to take care of myself no matter what.
It was a good strategy. I never married, but I've been able to support myself decently for most of my adult life using the education that my parents provided for me.
Mine too, my mother (also with a college degree) wanted both her children to attend college. But my family is unusual, my Dad’s mother had a 4 year degree as well.
To be honest, I never knew college was optional, it was the final step in your education. However, unlike your Dad, my parents did not pay for our college.
They had both financed their way through college. They were children of widows, who could not afford to send them. However in the 1970’s it was possible to pay your way through a state school with a part time job. They had us live at home and commute to campus. They paid gas and parking so we could do that.
I went to school in the 70s as well. I chose an out-of-state public university to keep the expense down. My father had passed away by then, and I had a Social Security check that paid for most of my education. My mom kicked in the rest, but it wasn't much in those days (not like now.)
Mormonly speaking, the 'father' you described is perfect.
Mormonly speaking, siring a daughter means that for this brief blip of time called mortality, you have to protect, feed and clothe someone else's eternal baby-making property.
Mormonly speaking, females only fulfill one eternal need.
Mormonly speaking, there is no reason to rule out being able to eternally marry your Earth sister, Earth grandmother, or Earth mother, should they happen to be 'available' in that final Last Chance wife auction, in which the final bride goes to the ghawd who blinks first.
moehoward Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I saw this with my Catholic friend. His college > was paid for and his sister had to pay for > herself.
Did the sister even want college?
The Mormon I'm talking about raised daughters that seem like they never even considered college.
In my family, it was never presented as a choice, and it was the same for my other nevermo friends. You went to college the same way you went to high school.
My jackMormon sperm donor worked in sales, had a little respect for higher education, and dropped out of high school. If it weren't for the fact that he valued my sisters as baby-making factories, considered his wife and kids his property, and spent hundreds of dollars on himself while spending pennies on the rest of us, I'd have some respect for his hard work without a high school diploma.
Don't get me started on how his speech at my sister's funeral was about himself more than her.
It sounds very muslim ;-). We had a Tunisian friend/cleaner, Habiba, in France illegally (it's complicated), who was one of the most intelligent (and emotionally intelligent) people I've ever known. Hardly surprising, of course: she came from a family of intellectuals, her brothers were doctors, lawyers and such. She was the brightest of the bunch, but her father refused to let her go to university because "women didn't need an education". She married to get away, I think. It was the only way. She made sure all her children went to University (if it suited them) in France - and one in Canada. A strong, kind, but ultimately very sad woman.
What you describe is very common, perhaps nearly universal, in traditionally religious societies.
There are always exceptions. I am friends with an Iranian family whose patriarch (not used in a disparaging way) is in his 100th year. He learned Russian in school because he lived in the northern part of Iran, which Moscow and London had divided and occupied from 1907 until WWII. He later rose to a prominent position in the Shah's government.
Anyway, when in the 1940s the young professor asked his love's father for permission to marry her, the older man demanded only one commitment: that his daughter be given every educational opportunity she wished. The suitor sort of laughed and said he wouldn't have it any other way. The wife earned her Ph.D. and became a professor as well.
Now 1940s Iran was already a fairly progressive place--it would by the 1960s and 1970s become one of the most woman-friendly countries in the world--but it was still unusual for women to be encouraged to get great educations. My point is that even in places that are not as egalitarian as the modern west (one hopes that adjective remains apt), there are always families and fathers and mothers who want the best for their daughters.
As you know, Tom, there are dozens of different sorts of Islam. The religion spans the gambit from extremely repressive to quite tolerant and liberal. Sadly the pendulum has in recent decades swung back towards the right, as it now is swinging in the Christian world as well.
a person does NOT have to be any certain gender .....whatever that really means these crazy days....... to come up grossly shorted on parental guidance and nurturing. A person does not have to be raise in the MORmON religion either, for that matter. But MORmONISM does greatly contribute to the problem.
My (crappy) MORmON parents do not want to hear criticism about their largely absentee (Crappy) MORmON based parenting. Since they made up for their detached parenting and its huge lapses by really beating the Hell out of their kids when then they did finally pay some attention to us, and because they raised in "THE" MORmON church Gospel, which is exactly what I am / we are attempting to complain about to them.
My excuse for a mother often preface her judgmental remarks with "well, I don't care, but " followed up by some statement to shore up her standing as a supremely good member of "THE" (MORmON) church. I too have arrived at the point where "I do not care" .......at all about her, so much due to her example.
After all, some one and their "church" was always around to remind me that there were huge consequences for any and all my actions.
At this point, I am not going to reward her crappy uncaring MORmON based excuse for parenting with any even slight pretense that I care about her or her life devoted to her MORmON cult to the exclusion of any thing and everything else.
FTR, my MORmON enforcement agent (excuse for a) male parent was FAR WORSE than my "mother" as he was obsessed with his attempt to become bishop even while there was ZERO chance of such a thing happening given the local MORmON sentiment about him as a grossly inferior convert. They would keep him on that treadmill for his entire MORmON life, and instead of taking out such mistreatment on them ....where it should have gone...... he blasted his subordinates children over the matter every chance that he had. I have zero affection for either of them at this point. that is the kind of family "ties" that MORmONISM really builds.
He taught Agricultural mechanics in high school and he was buying his father's farm. He worked from sun up to sundown. His job was year round as he was over the FFA. We all learned to work HARD.
He never tried to talk us into anything we did or didn't want to do as far as a career. My older sister wanted to be a teacher and she got her degree and so did her husband. Her daughter and her daughter's daughter now teach at the same school she does. My sister is old enough to retire, but she hasn't yet.
She is the only one with a degree, BUT my older brother was in the Army in the 1970s stationed in Berlin before the wall came down. He had learned German in high school and he learned Russian in the army. He translated the stuff they recorded from Russian planes. Later after working in the oil fields and being injured twice, he got $40,000 to be able to go to school. Workman's comp or something. He was at U of U majoring in Russian and minoring in German when he had a brain bleed. He will turn 69 this month. He was 42 when he had the brain bleed.
I've done well with what I decided to do. Be a secretary. I loved the jobs I had and I don't mind the medical transcription I do. In fact, I still do it and I don't have to just to keep my foot in the door.
My little sister worked for SS for 29 years and retired at age 60 with a pension.
My little brother dropped out of school and has helped build two companies. He earns in the 6 figures and has for years.
My take on things is we learned to work hard on the farm and we still work hard in our 50s and 60s. My disabled brother from birth and other things is on disability, but my mother made him work and even if she is dead, he goes out looking for work even if he gets hurt a lot. We can't stop him from working. He cut off part of his index finger on his right hand in January at work. He had a stroke when born and this is his good hand. But he still can drive. He memorized the handbook to take the test.
Thankfully not. He only had a high school education but encouraged my brother and I to pursue whatever post secondary schooling we desired. My brother earned 2 degrees and did a full career as a teacher. I just wanted to farm with dad.
Give ANY actual life advice, or even attempts at discussing art, nature, history, society, personal desires (OUTSIDE MORMONISM) or even dreams...
> + Seemed to have given none of [their] children any advice on [anything!] >
Sounds like Mormonism to me!
Act & think like things which aren't important, are important, while wholly neglecting ANY & ALL Personal autonomy, choice, dreams, thoughts, feelings, liberties and desires. IOW, NO free agency. No respect for other's beliefs. No equality for another's sovereignty. No privacy in regards to personal beliefs, feelings, and choices. NO voice of your own, but ONLY for the dominating cause, teachings, beliefs or practices.
Mormonism is useless, harmful, neglectful, puffed up and definitely rotten!
You did not have a choice if you went to church or not.
My mothers famous saying when she was not screaming at us was, what will the neighbors think.
My dad worked up to 18 hours almost daily, I never developed a personal relationship with him.
My Dad paid for everything for his daughters, school, clothes, cars, living expenses etc.
I was on my own, although my Dad would give me his worn out car or mom giving me hand me downs, if I wanted anything new, it was up to me. I paid for my own education, which was my choice. But I also had a deal with my parents, if I paid my own way then they could not tell me what to do, we came to that agreement in my twenties.
My parents were hard working, and taught me grit and independence, but they never really nurtured and I never emotionally attached to either one.
All the boys in the family are independent, established and successful. Of the girls two are doing well and taking care of themselves, but in essence followed the Mormon housewife teachings while the remainder have struggled with addictions, mental health, and financial security. All of us have higher education, with some of us following a more productive carrier path while others took a less rigorous path.
Years ago when we were in Wisconsin at a stake conference, the then current stake president talked about his father who was once also a stake president. He spoke about his memories of his father and devotion to the church. The father would grab his briefcase after work or after dinner and would come home late. The current stake president did not mention anything else about his father except for his memories of him picking up his bag and leaving. He remembers his father always leaving for church. It was repeated a few times.
DW and I, after hearing this, both turned to each other and thought this was nuts.