https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXZJhcQSOSs&ab_channel=AssociatedPress

Best comment: "If this guy makes it to heaven, the rest of us are going to be fine."

I didn't watch the entire almost three-minute clip (who has that kind of time!!), but I got the sense that while an apology was offered, reparations were not.

I get that probably most of those due redress of grievances have passed through the veil, and that dead people can't bring civil actions (at least in the USA), but the community to which the harmed belonged ought to have been offered something other than Spanish-language words of nothingness.

I'm told that it costs around $65 to tour the Vatican; he could have left them a bunch of tickets...


And now I have this announcement: Should you or any ancestor have a grievance against Pancho Villa based on his incursion into United States Territory in 1911, I hereby formally apologize. I'm sorry he and his men did whatever it is that caused you or your ancestors any harm or suffering.  As an important aside, I'd like to add that if anyone of you, or an ancestor, found his lucky Virgin of Guadalupe pendant, please return it to me for safekeeping.  Thank you.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I get that probably most of those due redress of
> grievances have passed through the veil ... but the community to which the harmed
> belonged ought to have been offered something
> other than Spanish-language words of nothingness.

This is profound.

I profoundly miss you, so the verbiage was profoundly welcome on two levels.

Thank you, you old dog. :)

Oh bury me not
In the library
Of the boarding school
In the rectory.

Jesus Christ

Even the Pope calls what happened a "deplorable evil".

Knowledgeable commentators say though that he seems to be parsing words around the apology and context, likely trying to avoid committing the Roman Catholic Church as an institution to reparations.

The Pope speaks of "the sins of some Christians" - he hasn't specifically stated "Catholics" from what I've heard so far.

Here's what he said, in part, on his trip to Canada this week:

"MASKWACIS, Alberta, July 25 (Reuters) - Pope Francis apologized on Monday to Canada's native people on their land for the Church's role in schools where indigenous children were abused, calling their forced cultural assimilation a "deplorable evil" and "disastrous error."

"Speaking near the site of two former schools in Maskwacis, Alberta, Francis apologized for Christian support of the "colonizing mentality" of the times and called for a "serious" investigation of the schools to help survivors and descendants heal.

"With shame and unambiguously, I humbly beg forgiveness for the evil committed by so many Christians against the indigenous peoples," said Francis, who arrived and left in a wheelchair due to a fractured knee.

"The address to the First Nations, Metis and Inuit people was the first apology on Canadian soil by the pope as a part of tour to heal deep wounds that rose to the fore after the discovery of unmarked graves at residential schools last year.

"I am here because the first step of my penitential pilgrimage among you is that of again asking forgiveness, of telling you once more that I am deeply sorry," he said.

"Between 1881 and 1996 more than 150,000 indigenous children were separated from their families and brought to residential schools. Many children were starved, beaten for speaking their native languages, and sexually abused in a system that Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission called "cultural genocide."


https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/pope-apologizes-canada-evil-residential-indigenous-schools-2022-07-25/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2022 12:58PM by Nightingale.

Decidedly black humor, but pretty memorable, and accurate enough, at least metaphorically, if not literally. It accurately places the blame.

Compare

Lizzie Borden took an ax
And gave her mother forty whacks,
And when she saw what she had done,
She gave her father forty-one.

That was certainly memorable, and probably has near universal recognition among North American kids now of a certain age. And it is not even clear Lizzie was guilty, and the numbers are way off.

Yet no apology from LD$ Inc. for the emotional, physical and sexual abuse suffered by many Ute and Navajo youth placed in Mormon homes in the 70s as part of the Indian Placement Program.

Yes, but it’s balanced by the failure of all those Navajo kids to offer any thanks for having been shown the available path to the panoply of Nephite skin tones … those ungrateful wretches!

He apologized for the "evil Christians" that perpetrated these horrid crimes and abuses but not for the role the RCC played in establishing the residential schools and for that, many indigenous leaders are not satisfied with the apology...and then a ceremonial head dress was placed on the pope's head in Edmonton which further upset many I indigenous people.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He apologized for the "evil Christians" that
> perpetrated these horrid crimes and abuses but not
> for the role the RCC played . . .

So much for an "apology."

"Mistakes were made."

For comparison S.J. Resolution 14 was passed in Congress while Obama was president. It was a bill in which the US Government officially apologized to Native Americans for "past ill-conceived policies toward the peoples of this land", It said that it was designed to reaffirm the government's commitment toward healing the nation's wounds and working toward establishing better relationships rooted in reconciliation. Nowhere in the bill was there support for any legal claims against the government.

Not excusing the awful things in Canada but there's plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the treatment of Native Americans.

And the RCC was not the only church responsible for residential schools in Canada.

Here's my little blurb re the Catholic Church's commitment to residential school survivors - and how that turned out so far.


According to a 2015 document, “Canada agreed to "forever discharge" Catholic entities from their promise to raise $25 million for residential school survivors and also picked up their [the church's] legal bill, a final release document shows.”

(The agreement was made between the Catholic Church and Canada’s Conservative government at the time, headed by PM Stephen Harper).

NB: Part of the issue is the judgments rendered by a Canadian court and part is due to the government’s decision not to appeal the decision that favoured the church over the survivors.


CBC article: August 20, 2022

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-deal-catholic-church-fundraising-1.6557533


Excerpts:

“Indigenous leaders and legal experts have long questioned why Ottawa opted to give up an appeal of a court decision that meant Catholic entities didn't have to pay their remaining financial obligations under the historic Indian Residential School Settlement Agreement.”


“The actions of the Catholic groups involved — and by extension, the Catholic Church as an institution — as well as Ottawa have been under renewed scrutiny since the uncovering of what are believed to be hundreds of unmarked graves at former residential school sites, which First Nations began announcing last year [2021].”


“The residential schools settlement obligated the 48 Catholic entities involved to pay $79 million, which was broken into three parts, including making "best efforts" to raise $25 million for residential school survivors.”


“At issue was whether lawyers for both sides had struck a deal freeing the church groups from all their financial commitments — including the $25 million for survivors — in exchange for a payment of $1.2 million, or only had an agreement covering a more narrow part of their financial responsibilities.”


“Ultimately, Justice Neil Gabrielson ruled the agreement covered all the church's financial commitments, allowing Catholic entities to walk away from their fundraising promise to survivors after raising less than $4 million.”


“The agreement states, in part: "Canada does hereby remise, release and forever discharge the Catholic entities, its directors, officers, shareholders, agents, lawyers, and employees, of and from all manners of actions, causes of action, suits, debts, dues, accounts, bonds whatsoever against the releasees," it reads.”


Ken Young, a former regional chief at the Assembly of First Nations and a residential school survivor: “... points to a promise made by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops for dioceses to raise $30 million for reconciliation-related efforts over five years. As of July, they reported raising $4.6 million.”


“Young believes the bishops will keep their word, but said given the wealth of the Vatican and the Catholic Church as an institution, fundraising shouldn't be necessary.”

"Write a cheque today — never mind bothering your parishioners to raise it."

-----

Indeed. How many bake sales or rummage sales would parishioners have to hold to come up with $25M for residential school survivors? Plus, why should Canadian taxpayers pick up the church’s legal bill? It’s outrageous.


Pope Francis apologized for the residential school tragedies during his recent trip to Canada. But this surely must be the greatest case of put your money where your mouth is. Pay the recompense, Francis. (Not that any amount of compensation can repay what was taken – the lives of many children, the potential and futures of others, and the lifetime happiness (turned to grief) of parents whose children were taken by the government and the church, many of whom never made it back home). But after the fact, this is all he can do – honour the agreement. Don’t litigate it down to the lowest amount of $$$, if any, and especially don’t fob off your legal bill onto Canadian taxpayers.

They have a chance to try and make their “sorry” meaningful. They still have a very long way to go.


This opinion is not anti-Catholic. It’s anti-cruelty and anti-adding to the already overwhelming pain of the former students, their families, and the church’s own parishioners, among other affected parties. And anti-going against your word.

And anti-bringing lawyers into every conversation to minimize your damages. It’s not a good look.

The "fundraising" angle/excuse is so weak. The Catholic church could have written a check. The church wrote a whole lot of checks after the child abuse scandals in the U.S. There was a lot of belt-tightening afterward, but they wrote the checks.

I even have to wonder what they meant by the term "fundraising" -- special mailed appeals, perhaps? Appeals to generous donors? When I was growing up, the church had a second collection about once every month or so. The basket would be passed once for the normal, weekly collection, and then passed again to cover missionary work in Africa, or some other such thing. It was similar to the different optional categories on the Mormon tithing envelopes. Even as a child I found this excessive.

It appears that the Catholic church wanted parishoners to cover this obligation out of their pockets as opposed to reaching into church reserves.

summer Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------

> It appears that the Catholic church wanted
> parishoners to cover this obligation out of their
> pockets as opposed to reaching into church
> reserves.

Bingo!

And that feeble joke is the only funny thing about all this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2022 02:34AM by Nightingale.