It's not worth it -- no matter what ridiculous religion or conspiracy theory you're into. Reality is real -- no matter badly you want to deny it.


https://time.com/6206535/polio-vaccines-how-to-stay-safe/

Until recently, polio had been a relic of history in the U.S. Once a scourge that paralyzed or killed up to tens of thousands of children every year, the U.S. declared the disease officially eradicated in 1979, thanks to widespread vaccination.

But polio is back. On July 21, the New York State Department of Health announced a case of polio in an unvaccinated man in Rockland County. Poliovirus has since been found in wastewater in both Rockland and neighboring Orange County, as well as in New York City.

The development has led to justified alarm. “Even a single case of paralytic polio represents a public health emergency in the United States,” write a group of researchers in a report published Aug. 16 in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. The bottom line is that anyone who is not fully vaccinated against the disease should get up-to-date on the shots immediately. Here’s what to know about what polio’s re-emergence in the U.S. means for your health.

I am old enough to have gotten two polio vaccines, oral and injection, and also smallpox vaccination, which protects against monkey pox too.

Nice to have monkey pox in the “not my problem” category.

Polio, like smallpox, only exists in human hosts, so if we eradicated all human cases, that would be the end of polio. It wss nearly wiped out, but pockets of residents in Afghanistan and Pakistan resisted vaccination, and now with people in the rest of the world joining in that little bit of insanity, polio is making a bit of a comeback.

Way to go, peeps.

Polio no issue, but I’m one of the few people over 65 not vaccinated for smallpox. The vaccine was grown in eggs, as a kid I was so allergic to eggs it was not safe to give it to me. Herd immunity was my protection. Now… crap

shortbobgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Polio no issue, but I’m one of the few people
> over 65 not vaccinated for smallpox. The vaccine
> was grown in eggs, as a kid I was so allergic to
> eggs it was not safe to give it to me. Herd
> immunity was my protection. Now… crap

I've always heard that the smallpox vax confers lifelong immunity, and vaccination was mandatory in school-age kids, which suggests a high degree of herd immunity indefinitely. Colour me surprised to read the following, which states the exact opposite:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610468/

Article (2008):

"Given that the majority of Americans under the age of 35 years have never been vaccinated against smallpox and the great majority of those over 35 have not received booster vaccinations since the early 1970s, immunity to smallpox is considered to be low to nonexistent in today’s population. In the past, primary vaccination of individuals with vaccinia was believed to confer dependable protection for at least 5 years, with increasing protection achieved with subsequent revaccinations. However, a major question posed today is whether those individuals vaccinated 40 or more years ago would be protected in the event of smallpox exposure."



Re monkeypox, when it first emerged the focus seemed to be on the fact that most cases arose in "men who have sex with men". That turned out to be misleading as monkeypox is not restricted to that population and it created a false sense of security that is hard to overcome after the fact.


From the Government of Canada web site re monkeypox:

"The virus may spread through respiratory particles, such as from talking, breathing, coughing or sneezing, during close contact. But we're still gathering information on that mode of transmission."

"You can help reduce your risk of becoming infected with or spreading the monkeypox virus by:

- staying home and limiting contact with others if you have symptoms, or as recommended by your health care provider

- avoiding close physical contact, including sexual contact, with someone who is infected with or may have been exposed to the monkeypox virus

- maintaining good hand hygiene and respiratory etiquette, including:

*covering coughs and sneezes with the bend of your arm or
wearing a well-fitting mask

*cleaning and disinfecting high-touch surfaces and objects in your home, especially after having visitors"

-----

Seems like Covid 2.0.

It can be a challenge to navigate all the information sources and to comprehend some of the jargon and details.

I'm still going with masking and hygiene as my best, and simplest, measures against Covid, a virus I **really** do not want to contract.

Staying informed, making wise choices, and maintaining the basic hygiene measures seems like the obvious way to go in terms of protecting oneself against all the nasty little bugs that are swirling around us as we speak.

Good luck everybody!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 03:15PM by Nightingale.

I work with a world-class immunologist who was deeply involved in the COVID vaccine development. When Monkey Pox emerged several months ago, she said, almost apologetically, that we must watch it closely.

She readily admitted that most people had been vaccinated and hence that the "new" virus would probably not become a major problem. But the Monkey Pox and Small Pox viruses are so similar, she worried, that the absence of the latter in large pockets of humans meant there was an ecological niche available for the former to exploit. With a few mutations, such as something facilitating respiratory contagion, she said, Monkey Pox could become a serious epidemic.

It has been unsettling to see my colleague's concerns gain substantiation from subsequent events.

Eek.

We haven't got past Covid yet. And everybody's tired.

I have a horror of anything pustular or lesion-y. Quite a handicap when I was nursing. I can't even look at the news when they're showing the monkeypox lesions.

I recently watched an episode of the UK TV show 'Call the Midwife' when they had a patient with leprosy who had yet to receive treatment and he was in bad shape with gross lesions all over his skin, including on his face. I had to close my eyes whenever he came on the screen, even knowing that it was just make-up but it sure looked real. And horrible.

I hope we don't get a twin pandemic type scenario, or worse. You'd think this all would be a good lesson in public health and the reason for, and importance of, routine immunizations in our lives but apparently not, sadly for many.

I wish we could highlight more strongly the public health realities we're living with and for sure I hope that people get the concept that our actions affect others and for the love of humanity we need to keep in mind that our actions can negatively affect others - such as short bob girl above - who for health/age and other reasons need to depend on others to do the right thing and GET VAXXED as recommended by health officials - those who have more education and experience in these matters - what a concept - too bad so many can't seem to grasp that.

One of the most unexpected and sad realities in my lifetime is seeing evidence of how little all too many people seem to care for the welfare of others, which the Covid pandemic, among other events, has highlighted.

We've enjoyed the benefits of medical science in terms of routine immunizations that bestow immunity on us against many dread diseases that devastated the world in previous generations and have also benefited from herd immunity bestowed on us from the majority following the science. Maybe that is one reason for the complacency we see now in the face of calamity. Too, I am not yet accustomed to the rank ignorance on display, such as by Kennedy et al as mentioned below by BoJ.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 03:58PM by Nightingale.

Worse than 'rank ignorance' is harming/poisoning people for profit, while burying/ignoring the evidence that this was the case.

Thus answering the question, in the long run, which has more lasting value, human life or money in the bank?

LV I had a late friend who was an immunologist for a very large British drug company (still around but under a different name joined with others) I recall more than 40 years ago he told me that his company was the only one in the world that retained smallpox cultures in the event of the disease making a return even though viewed as eradicated. I am not knowledgeable on the subject to know if that is really relevant to the start up of vaccines. Perhaps they would take cultures from newly infected people should it return. Back in the 60s the Canadian government required a smallpox vaccine under its immigration policy. I recall I had the worst reaction from it I have ever had with any vaccination.

I can't recall where I read it, but the presentation was pretty blasé, as in, "of course all the major countries have the smallpox virus stored in case it needs to be weaponized..."

...Along the lines of mutually-assured destruction...

That is true. The US, the USSR, and some other countries still have the virus. I was unaware that private companies did, as Kentish reports, and that is a possibility that unnerves me. But yes, governments could revive the virus and use it prophylactically.

It would be much easier, I'd imagine, to stop the spread of Monkey Pox directly although given current politics that may be a pipe dream.

Do you find yourself grinding your molars when you have to sustain and support my priesthood, Gladys?

...just curious...

From what I'm told the problem of your priesthood never arises.

Or is that rumor unfounded?

...dumbfounded...

Some things we'll always have!

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

"There are now only two locations that officially store and handle variola virus under WHO supervision: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, and the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology (VECTOR Institute) in Koltsovo, Russia."

However...

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2002/11/cia-believes-four-nations-have-secret-smallpox-virus-stocks-report-says

"The CIA has good evidence that four nations—Iraq, North Korea, Russia, and France—have secret stores of smallpox virus, according to a Washington Post report based on comments from officials speaking anonymously."

Report is from 2002 in the lead up to Bush's Iraq war, so who really knows.

I think the stories of a US-Russian monopoly should be treated as "probably true" or "possibly true" rather than absolutely reliable.

For example, a decade ago several vials of the virus were discovered in a storage room in an FDA laboratory in Maryland, where they had languished unnoticed for decades.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/fda-found-more-than-smallpox-vials-in-storage-room/2014/07/16/850d4b12-0d22-11e4-8341-b8072b1e7348_story.html

Even more disturbingly, those vials were among 300+ vials of dangerous pathogens found in 12 boxes at that location.

The bottom line is that there were a lot of labs around the world that had smallpox/variola samples, and intentionally or not some of those vials may still be lying unremarked in refrigerators.

I agree. That is why I said "Offically".

Who really knows where smallpox virus might be stored?

Yep. I just wanted to add the information about the 2014 discoveries in Maryland.

You and I are on the same page.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/smallpox-vials-found-at-merck-lab-in-suburban-philadelphia-facility/3050775/

Fortunately, it was actually vaccinia and not variola (smallpox).

The fact that those vials were labeled "smallpox" when their contents were not that disease is hardly reassuring.

Betting on human, and by extension institutional, stupidity is never a bad idea.

It was mandatory to be vaccinated for smallpox and I had a medical exception in my school records. By the time my body would let me eat eggs, it was no longer an issue so doctor said I didn’t need to be vaccinated. Wishing now I had been anyway.

I heard too that the smallpox vax protects against monkeypox, so I'm surprised to read this on the CDC web site:

"Persons exposed to monkeypox virus and who have not received the smallpox vaccine within the last 3 years, should consider getting vaccinated."

Perhaps they mean if you're at risk of contracting monkeypox? Because I haven't heard medics suggesting that everybody re-up their smallpox vax. That would be a bit of a challenge for all involved. Another mass vax situation?

Mass vax re smallpox would be a worldwide challenge as apparently there is not a big enough supply of the vaccine to cover everybody.

As for polio, one aspect of it that they should be shouting from the rooftops, imho, is that THERE IS NO TREATMENT FOR POLIO. Prevention is the only way to avoid the risks and negative outcomes, including paralysis and possible death (1:200). Polio is nothing to shrug off lightly.

Just saying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 03:18PM by Nightingale.

Yes, the vaccine-deniers are no longer content with merely demonizing the Covid19 vaccine. They have moved on to monkeypox (for which the long-established smallpox vaccine is effective in prevention,) and the polio vaccine.

Well, play around a find out. I'm truly sorry for the sake of their children. They don't deserve that.

Unbelievable to me that parents would not ensure their kids be vaccinated against polio. Or any other dread disease, as recommended by health officials.

I am old enough to remember when polio was so feared that as a first grader in the early 50's I was not allowed to drink out of the garden hose or play in the dirt. We lined up in school to get a polio shot and a couple of years later (iirc) to get a polio booster given orally on a sugar cube. There did not seem to be any hesitancy on ANYONE's part to get vaccinated.

I recently saw a large picture in the lobby of the building where I went to get a copy of a birth certificate of a long line of people in the 1950's Salt Lake City waiting to get the polio vaccine. It included elderly folks down to babies in strollers, eager and willing to stand in line outside to be protected.

Timely thread. RFK Jr’s Childrens Health Defense organization was just booted (today?) from Instagram and FaceBook for repeated vaccine misinformation violations.

Good to hear. I'm so tired of junk science, especially when it comes to vital health matters, ruling the day.

In 1953, when I was 5 I awoke one morning and my legs would not support me when I got out of bed. I was rushed to the hospital and was diagnosed with " Infantile Paralysis AKA Polio. I had a high fever but over the next week my fever subsided and muscle control returned to my legs (I never felt Paralysis im my legs, just loss of control). I was very lucky it wasn't a more severe infection.
When the Salk and then Sabine vaccines were given out at my school I took them.

Wow, LR. Lucky it wasn't worse.

You're kind of like living history!

You're making me feel old Nightingale!...oh wait..I am old! Lol
But yes, glad it wasn't worse. A girl in my neighborhood has worn leg braces her whole life.

My granduncle was in Germany as a missionary in the mid- to late 1950s. He was infected, was shipped back to the States, spent months in an iron lung, and was confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Family lore has it that the Salk vaccine became available the next year, so he was the last of the hopeless generation, but I do not know if that timetable is accurate.

I was very little when I knew him. I do, however, remember family events at which getting him down from the car and up the steps (there were steps everywhere) to wherever we were going and then reversing the process later was always a major logistical effort. He achieved a lot in his life--at least some here would know his name--but paid a very high price.

He was also a very independent man who remained active in the church even as he drank coffee till the day he died. Near the end he told me that the one thing he really regretted was not having taught his daughters "a different way to be Mormon," meaning a cultural and legacy-based Mormon as opposed to a literal believer who thought there was only one right way to live.

What he didn't realize was that such a "new order" vision of Mormonism, while possible in the 1940s and 1950s, was by the 1980s and 1990s impossible.

My mother had it, was in an iron lung. Long hospital stay. I think it shaped who she became as an adult in a lot of ways.

My understanding is that the outbreak of polio here in New York is due to a religious based idea of not vaccinating. I'm not sure that's going to be able to be easily addressed due to ideology. So yes. Denying reality is apparently worth it.

I remember an interview with a doctor during the start of the anti-vaxxer movement. The broadcaster asked, "why aren't we seeing polio cases?" The doctor replied, "there are not enough people not getting vaccinated but in time, we will see polio again."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#/media/File:Life_expectancy_by_world_region,_from_1770_to_2018.svg

I hope that link works. It is a chart of life expectancy in various parts of the world from 1770 to the present.

Note that what became the industrialized world began a steep climb in life expectancy around 1865, the end if the US Civil War, when the Industrial Revolution really kicked into high gear. That was primarily due to smallpox vaccination public health campaigns. A bunch of other vaccines came on line mostly in the first half of the 20th century.

Up until the 20th century, for all of human history, death of infants and children was the rule, rather than the exception. If a person made into their 20s, the chances of making it to age 60 and beyond was pretty good. Up until 1900, about 40% of infants and children died. Visit a cemetery that existed in the 1800s or before, and see how many children are buried there.

My 4 grandparents were all born within a few years of 1890. One grandmother had 6 children in the 1910-20 years, 2 of which died in infancy. that's a third. My other grandmother, the Mormon one, had 12 children. two died in infancy, 2 more as you adults. That's a third. They were the first generation when the toll of infant deaths started to collapse to what it is today, and vaccination against childhood diseases is almost totally responsible for it.

Life expectancy went from about 35 to about 65 in the Americas between 1865 and 1965. That is the largest percentage jump in human life expectancy that has ever happened in human history, and is almost centainly the largest jump that will ever happen again, barring a nuclear war or something like that that sends humanity back to square one. I had one grandparent who lived into the 1980s, so that massive jump in life expectancy was during the lifetime of people who were alive within living memory of most of us here. Let that sink in.

BTW, also note that Europe (purple line on top) accelerated life expectancy well beyond the Americas starting in about 1945, when Europe adopted universal health care after WWII. The Americas eventually caught up.

Vaccines are probably the single greatest accomplishment in public health, ever.

My grandmother, the one who made it into her late 90s, had polio, and lost most of the muscle in one arm. My dad had something that might or might not have been polio, that affected one leg. It was during his military training as a machine gunner in WWII, and he got reassigned to a clerical job in the US. That probably saved his life.

I don't even know the symptoms of most childhood diseases. Diphtheria? Hell if I know. I am old enough to remember a few of the childhood diseases that did not yet have vaccines when I was young, most notably polio, and smallpox was still around, but almost eradicated. As someone upthread mentioned, there were lines around the block to get polio vaccine when I was a kid. Polio vaccination was damn near universal.

When I think of how many of my parents' siblings died in childhood (we're not talking distant past - **my** parents) and the enormous change in infant death wrought by vacccines, I look at the anti-vaxxers and am gobsmacked. I wonder what the hell these people are thinking?


Yes, vaccines have side effects, up to and including death in rare cases. Having the actual disease also has the same side effects, and considerably more severe and more frequent. People seem to think the choice is between risking vaccine side effects, or being just fine, parasitically benefitting from the herd immunity provided by everyone else. The real choices are that you are risking the side effects of the actual disease, and also weakening that herd immunity for the entire population.

As long as most people chose to be vaccinated, parasitic protection (benfitting from the risks other people take (immunocompromised people who can't get vaccinated excepted) ) works, though being a parasite is generally not thought highly of.

We are reaching a point where for highly infectious diseases, herd immunity is starting to fail because of the anti-vaxxers. As far as I am concerned, that is unethical, bordering on criminal.


End of rant.

I grew up within a half mile of a cemetery that had graves from the 1800s. As a child, I enjoyed walking through it and reading the gravestones. They didn't sugarcoat things back then. There were plenty of children's gravestones. Maybe that's what's missing for the anti-vaxxers -- physical reminders of what happens without vaccines. Older graveyards are very useful in that regard.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe that's
> what's missing for the anti-vaxxers -- physical
> reminders of what happens without vaccines. Older
> graveyards are very useful in that regard.

Excellent point, summer.

Within living memory kids were lying in iron lungs, unable to breathe independently due to the dread disease polio, which can cause paralysis and even death. Other kids, who at least survived, had to wear heavy braces for long periods of time to help their little weak, twisted legs to walk again.

To date, there is still no CURE for polio, only a vaccine to prevent it.

Other diseases that too many people tend to dismiss as no big deal include measles, mumps, diphtheria, none of which are pleasant.

All those and many more illnesses that were scourges to past generations can be prevented, controlled, perhaps even eradicated if successive waves of parents get their kids vaccinated according to the recommended schedules.

Many are behind as we speak due to disruptions caused by the Covid pandemic which itself, as we know, could have taken much less of a toll if more people had been vaxxed against it when recommended, and more quickly.

If someone doesn't vaccinate their kids (as recommended at set ages for the familiar childhood diseases) they are depending on the herd immunity provided by a majority of other kids getting theirs done.

I hope they at least realize that medical fact.

Following the schedule for kids to now be vaccinated against Covid, according to MD recommendations by age, is also a responsible parental act, according to science and medicine experts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2022 12:03AM by Nightingale.

Nighty,

My late college roommate was one of those kids you describe who survived polio but had to spend years with a clunky brace on one leg. I knew her back in elementary school and was fascinated by the brace. She never let it hold her back. The ailing leg never developed fully. She always had to buy two pairs of shoes to accommodate both feet.

"I wonder what the hell these people are thinking?" Right there with you BoJ. Parasitic is the right way to put it.

Most of us probably have ancestors who had 10 or more children, only to have more than half of them die before the age of 8, often due to diseases that we now have vaccines for. That's one reason why even those who weren't Mormon or Catholic had larger families before there were vaccines and other medical treatments.

My dad's youngest brother had the old family Bible. There were 13 children born to my paternal grandparents, per the notes written on an empty front page, with a name a DOB for each of the 13. But only five of these kids made it to adulthood.

My TBM daughter doesn't know about this so she thinks her genealogy work is done ...

I have a different view about all the vaccine, life expediency going up at the same time over population around the world is causing problems with food production, clean water, sanitation etc.

In some ways are we fighting nature trying to stop all disease, hunger, homelessness. On top of that we are fighting global warming, air pollution etc.

Governments, ie politicians, are forcing us to get vaccinated, get EV, stop air/water pollution at the same time the resources are only available in third world countries that don't have the social restraints that are forced on us.

I'm over 75 y.o., I'm done paying the pharma corp for more vaccines and all the other costs.

Average death age of males in 72, I'm living on borrowed time, I not going to get anymore vaccines, going to drive my gas guzzling vehicle and live peacefully without worrying about all the social ills the politicans have brought down on us.

On the other hand, me and my S.O. are in the process of finding out where we should go to get vaccinated, and ASAP.

We were both vaccinated against polio when we each were growing up, but that was a long time ago--and those in medical authority positions are repeatedly, now, making the case that getting re-vaccinated ASAP is the wisest course of action for everyone.

I’ve been wondering about that. I go to the doctor for something else in a few weeks, better ask.

https://www.prevention.com/health/a40706124/polio-booster/

"Backing up a moment here: The polio vaccine is part of routine childhood vaccinations. The CDC recommends that children get four doses of polio vaccine—at 2 months old, 4 months old, 6 through 18 months old, and 4 through 6 years old. If you had this as a child, you are fully vaccinated against polio, says William Schaffner, M.D., an infectious disease specialist and professor at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine.

That said, polio boosters are a thing. The CDC says that adults who are “at increased risk of exposure to poliovirus” and previously completed their poliovirus vaccination series can get one lifetime booster dose of the polio vaccine.

So, who needs a booster shot? The CDC lists off the following adults as potentially needing a polio booster:

People who are traveling to a country where the risk of getting polio is greater.
People working in a laboratory and handling specimens that might contain polioviruses.
Healthcare workers who treat patients who could have polio or have close contact with a person who could be infected with poliovirus.

“Most people do not need a polio booster because they were vaccinated against polio when they were very young,” Dr. Schaffner says. “In general, there is no polio in the U.S. and no polio in most of the world, so people don’t need a booster.”

Richard Watkins, M.D., an infectious disease physician and professor of internal medicine at the Northeast Ohio Medical University, agrees. For most people, “you get the shots as a child and then that's it,” he says.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html

"Most adults have likely already been vaccinated against poliovirus during childhood, and that is why IPV is not part of routine adult vaccinations.

However, adults who are unvaccinated, incompletely vaccinated, or are completely vaccinated but are at higher risk for contact with poliovirus should receive polio vaccination. The following situations put adults at higher risk:

You are traveling to a country where the risk of getting polio is greater. Ask your healthcare provider if you need to be vaccinated.
You are working in a laboratory or healthcare setting and handling specimens that might contain polioviruses.
You are a healthcare worker treating patients who could have polio or have close contact with a person who could be infected with poliovirus."

Vaccines are not a "hoax."


By not being vaccinated, you put other lives at risk.


You may be dead by 2060, but I'll be getting close to your age then and I would like to enjoy life rather than having to flee from constant catastrophic weather events, not to mention clean water to drink and fresh air to breathe.


If you think things are bad now with immigration and climate change, just wait till you grandchildren and great-grand children have to flee to Canada.

Politicians didn't bring this down on us -- our own greed and folly did.

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you think things are bad now with immigration
> and climate change, just wait till you
> grandchildren and great-grand children have to
> flee to Canada.

Dear God - not Canada - what a fate!

(Sorry for the derail, couldn't resist).

In about 30-40 years, Canadian Prime Minister Donald J. Trudeau is going to build a big, beautiful wall and make the US pay for it.

They'd be wise to start construction before the guns, and the gun culture, infect Canadian society.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anybody Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you think things are bad now with
> immigration
> > and climate change, just wait till you
> > grandchildren and great-grand children have to
> > flee to Canada.
>
> Dear God - not Canada - what a fate!
>
> (Sorry for the derail, couldn't resist).

:D

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Governments, ie politicians, are forcing us to get
> vaccinated, get EV, stop air/water pollution . . .

"Forcing" you? That's not true. You were not forced to get vaccinated, to buy an EV, or to stop polluting.


-------------------
> I'm done paying the pharma corp
> for more vaccines and all the other costs.

You didn't pay for any COVID vaccines you received.

There you go with that dependence on reality again. Reality is a crutch for people who lack imagination. Tumwater apparently has a medium-good imagination. I've seen better.

BTW, Tum, the average US male life expectancy in 2019 was 78.79. It's actually dropped a bit since then, thanks in part to Covid, and thanks in part to the people who pretended it was not a real disease.

The average male life expectancy also has a strong racial bias since race correlates highly with socioeconomic class. Assuming Tumwater is white, he should do better than the 78.8 years you indicate.

@Tumwater
Your twisted logic is a fun read but you are pointing all your wrath at Covid and Pharma. If you took a poll in this blog I think you would find out that most of us are in our late 60s-70s and don't fear dying as much as suffering in our final years. Pharma and a little luck will prevent excess suffering, so I'm all for medications/vaccines. I will be 70 next year but enjoying life which includes grandkids, traveling, drinking great wines and of course, my wife. I wish you luck with your "borrowed time".

The average older American has nine prescriptions, which makes me think confidently that Tumwater takes a number of drugs at the behest of his physician. If that is correct, then his hostility to Big Pharma only extends to the COVID and related vaccines that he finds offensive for political reasons.

That would mean Tumwater has no problem with the pharmaceutical products he must buy for himself and only dislikes the free ones that protect others, It's not the cost he's boycotting but the opportunity to help his neighbors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2022 02:38PM by Lot's Wife.

At least one of those Covid vaccine companies, Phizer also makes Viagra, which treats something that could be consider "God's will."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2022 04:27PM by adoylelb.

If all the world's a stage maybe everything is a plot.

But that's a mighty big if...