DH and I are not attending DDs wedding. Why? Because of LDS church rules. We won’t be waiting outside of the temple either. For me, it doesn’t make sense to wait outside, for who knows how long, then watch them emerge from a building, take a few pictures with everyone, then watch DD and her new husband leave on their honeymoon. (There will be no celebratory events after the ceremony.)

Do our Mormon family members and friends understand why we have decided not to WAIT OUTSIDE? Of course not. DH was called by a Mormon friend last night and chastised for our plans to not wait outside, and it didn't stop there, he chastised him for not believing the “one and only true church”. DH gave the friend and earful for the chastisement. This same friend has made the comment to me, “you’ll be back” [to the church]. I want to smack this friend upside the head, but it wouldn’t do any good. If it did, I’d be going around smacking everyone.

When I have attempted to explain to Mormons the why of our decision to not WAIT OUTSIDE I get the typical response, “you need to be there to support her”. ‘ Hello, anyone at home in that brain of yours? Your church doesn’t allow us to attend the ceremony.’ That’s what I WANT to say but here’s my response…. Next time there is a family event we’ll celebrate without you, but I’d still like you to have you there for pictures afterward. What is their response to what I’ve said? Nothing. Or I get words to the affect that, we are wrong and we should be there no matter what…that we must not support or love our daughter. Ah, the indoctrinated Mormon assumptions. Trying to work against those is like trying to move a brick wall with a feather. We do love and support her, the decision to travel 40 minutes to a temple, wait outside watching little children, to see them for 5 minutes afterwards and be in a few pictures is not what I want to do. [We had a family bbq with his side of the family last week, and took pictures then.]

What’s incredibly frustrating for me, when conversing with Mormons, is that they have no desire to understand anyone else’s point of view, unless that views fits within the framework or box of Mormonism. I'm tired of it.

I'll preface this next part by stating we live in Utah County and recently there was an incident. Not only are we dealing with family and friends, but we are shunned by our Mormon neighbors. Why? Because we don’t want their religion shoved down our throats. I’ve specifically stated to them that I don’t want them to come to our home for any religious reason so they assume we don’t want to socialize in a neighborly way, at all! The friend mentioned above knows we’ve said this, and said to DH last night “since you don’t want to have anything to do with your neighbors”……. What? Hold up there, we didn’t say we didn’t want to have anything to do with our neighbors we just put up boundaries with them in regard to the over-bearing, forceful approach of their religious views. So, we have put up boundaries and because of this they don’t want to have anything to do with us. We don’t believe the way they do so, they shun us. I have seen this time and time again. I’ve heard about it time and time again. Did I expect it to happen when we resigned? Yes.

Could I ignore all of this, the words, the behavior? Sure. And I do, or I would have gone crazy by now, but it isn't easy. Today I’m frustrated, irritated and angry that I have to deal with the family/friend bullshiz and Mormon shunning.

There may be a few Mormons that have manners, can be truly sympathetic, might actually THINK, but the majority don’t and I’m tired of it.

I'm so sorry that you live in Utah County.

So so so very sorry. That place is terrible.

What does DD say or think?

In their view, you are shunning them. You expected them to shun you and you got what you expected.

So why are you upset? When you are ready to socialize with Mormons, you will invite them over for dinner (or whatever you would normally do).

I think being in the pictures for your daughter's wedding is very important. A wedding is a time when we, as mothers, put our feelings aside in support of our children. It is THEIR day, not our day to make a statement. Your absence will detract from your child's happiness and mar her special day. This should mean something to you--Mormons and their crap aside.

You never make a mistake when you act out of love. Let her remember that the church kept you out of the wedding--don't screw up the truth by having her remember instead that you boycotted her wedding because you hated Mormonism. After your gone, your grandchildren will be asking why you didn't come. You want her to say, "Grandma did come but the church didn't let her come in."

Send a loving message- send the message that you love her as much as possible and no church could keep you from her special day, even it it is only for five minutes for pictures.

Those pictures will always be a reminder to her that you loved her more than you hated the church. After you die, your smiling face still in those pictures--a triumph of love over bigotry.


Anagrammy

I understand what Mormons are thinking. We do socialize with Mormons, In mentioning Mormon family and friends, was I not clear about that?

I didnt mention that DD has said that I'm an embarrassment to her. Why? Because I'm not Mormon and don't believe it. In her anger she has dictated to me what kind of person I should be, and that she didn't want me waiting outside the temple. She even told family members I was going to picket at the temple when she got married. I've never said I would do that and I'm not generally an angry person or exhibit anger.

I'm not respected by my own daughter, because I'm not mormon, and ONLY because I choose not to be mormon. That's clear from her words over the past few years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 06:57PM by emanon.

and I can't remember when I realized that THAT IS MY DAUGHTER and they WILL NOT take her away from me. If she wishes to be married in the temple, I will be there. I won't wait in their little specified room, but I will be there--as THEY CAN'T TAKE HER FROM ME, which they want to do.

I know what goes on in the temple--and I'm not missing out on anything. Every other minute of her life is MINE and she is MINE. I won't let the LDS church come between she and I.

I don't see it as the LDS church taking away my daughter. I'm just tired of the LDS related crap.

Maybe what you might want to do is to have a "whiz bang," "humdinger" of a bbq or party and invite only non-Mormons or ex-Mormons from the area. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

I like your suggestion Michael. :)

emanon Wrote:
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> I like your suggestion Michael. :)


Thank you.

I don't know if you made the right decision regarding your daughter's wedding, but the point is that it is none of your neighbor's business.He gets to choose what events to attend and so do you.Tell him that. However, if this is going to cause a permanent rift with your daughter, I might rethink it. I don't know all the circumstances, but I do think family is important, much as I wouldn't like waiting outside the temple.

Let's be clear about this, I won't be able to attend her wedding, the LDS church doesn't allow it. What I've chosen not to do is WAIT OUTSIDE.
It won't cause a rift with DD because there already is a rift, one that is there because I have chosen not to be mormon, and DD is angry about that.
I'm just hoping that one day, in the far future (because I don't think it will happen any time soon) she will come to respect my decision as mine, and accept me for who I am.

I'm not a horrible person but LDS culture and doctrine teaches that I must be! Why? Because I left it.

You're right. Who invites family to stand in for pictures after an event they are restricted from attending? To me that idea is crazy.

Perhaps the party could go to a home or garden for pictures after the temple rituals. Don't know if that would work for you or for them. It's just a thought.

I'm so sorry for your pain. Sad that a "family" church tears families apart this way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 07:06PM by Cheryl.

If there was a celebration afterwards, of any kind, the situation would be a bit different. There's NOTHING afterwards. I would travel 40 minutes to see her for 5 minutes. Why could I not do that after she got back from her honeymoon, or beforehand?

I also hope someday she'll mature in her thinking and understand the situation more reasonably. I think this is quite likely, but of course there's no way to know for certain at this time.

I think that having a reception for your daughter and new SIL after they return would be a lovely gesture (if that's within the realm of possibility.)

From a neverMo point of view, waiting outside of an important family event from which you have been excluded is just plain nuts. It's inconceivable. However I have come to understand that both options (waiting at the temple vs. not going there at all) are reasonable responses to a horrible situation.

I would be as loving to her as I possibly could, even if she returns a nasty attitude (i.e. "I so wish I could be with you on your special day. I wish you both the best and will be sending you a lovely gift for when you begin your lives together. I would love to host a reception for you when you get back. Can we pick a day?") On some level your loving attitude (over time) will get through to her, even if she is unable to respond to it at present.

As for your neighbors, if it were me, I would try to smooth things over, i.e. "I like YOU, and I don't mind if you talk about your church activities, but I just don't want people prosylitizing to me or giving me their tesimonies." That's clear enough, and if they shun you after that, at least you've tried your best.

Thanks Summer. I appreciate hearing this.

Thanks Cheryl.

A couple of years ago I wrote a letter to my oldest daughter and laid the groundwork for not being there if she marries in the temple. Basically I refuse to be excluded then wait around to be in the pictures at the temple so everybody else can pretend that I was part of her wedding. To be treated that way is rude and disgusting and I simply refuse to the the cult get away with it.

I let my daughter know that I'd be busy getting ready for the reception or whatever else was planned but I wouldn't be at the temple. She's nineteen now and attractive and talented and funny and beautiful and witty and charming and I don't think it will be too many more years before I'm in the same situation.

I'm in Utah County too, so if you want company for a non-temple attenders brunch let me know.

Stunted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 07:06PM by Stunted.

Thanks Stunted. I appreciate the support and understanding.

I'm dealing with even more crap today and I'm about ready to turn off my phone and leave town for the next several days!

What Anagrammy said might apply in normal culture but this is Morg culture. I think it's great you will not be in their little Morg temple pictures. To do so would have been to capitulate to evil. Now every time they look at their pictures your absence will be the biggest thing they see in them. It might actually help them grow a conscience one day

I think you should be there waiting outside. It's not about you, it is about your daughter.
Take lots of your own pictures and be in as many pictures as possible.
Ignore the people that want to discuss you being there after saying that you wouldn't. It's none of their business.
I also wouldn't discuss your view of the church or the fact that you are not allowed to see your daughter get married. Just be happy to see her for 5 minutes when she comes out, take lots of pictures, and drive the 40 minutes back home.
Remember, your daughter chose a temple wedding, so waiting outside is all you get. You may regret not being there to show your love and support for her.
People who feel the opposite have some good points. I guess it just comes down to how you feel about the entire situation and how your decision may affect your relationship with your daughter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 07:23PM by milamber.

So, sorry, it needs to be up to them, not you.

+++++1

You know, the whole "get slapped in the face then turn the other cheek". I understand that and it may be the best option for some people in some situations. I've been slapped enough, thank you very much.

Hi there- So sorry about the riff with your daughter and the whole temple marriage exclusion. I have gone through many of the same events. My dear Son married a sweet girl from his mission and the wedding was held in Kentucky in the temple-I am in California....long story short - I did not fly out to Kentucky to stand outside the temple in the middle of January and have the 'exhusband & still TBM' father 'trash' me to all the new in-laws (well he did talk trash-his MO- but not in front of me)
I regret not going just because it is my dear son (& I did want to be supportive of the newlyweds and their marriage)
So we flew them out later that year to our house in CA for a fun week of kayaking, swimming, boating, hiking, San Francisco, etc. We had a wonderful time.
That is nice you already had the BBQ gathering and the pictures & they are not 1400 miles away.
All the best - you are a good mom.

Thanks Annabelle.

I'd like to add, I generally think through my decisions. I've had years to think about what I would do when DD married in the temple. I've only regretted one decision in my life, listening to DH when he asked me not to say anything to anyone about my disbelief, including DD. I regret that decision but I also didn't agree with it, I just went along with it.

I don't believe my absence from outside the temple will ruin my relationship with DD. And, I don't believe she will shed tears over my absence. I won't shed them either. Not having all your family and friends attending your wedding is just the way it is in Mormonism. I think she's accepted that, and so have I. For a number of reasons, I believe the best decision is not to be there, and I won't regret the decision. Why do I know this? Because I have no reservations about the decision, no desire to be there, and don't feel as if she or I will be missing anything, that wasn't already expected, by that absence. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is when growing up and living a life influenced by a cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 08:15PM by emanon.

I have grown to hate that word "support." It is such a typical mormon phrase, used very effectively to induce guilt and shame. You may find that by NOT being there, you are actually giving your daughter the greatest love ever by showing her what integrity, honesty, and boundaries look like in a very quiet way. She won't see that now, but maybe....... Maybe you could write her a note explaining how painful it is not to be involved with her wonderful day.

Maggie, I couldn't articulate what I was feeling but you expressed it beautifully.

The note is a good idea. It's not painful for me, I've worked through any grief associated with this, but of course I'd like to be there for the ceremony. Expressing to her my desire to be there is a good idea but I think also letting her know that I will be there for her every day of her life is important to say. I do think she already knows this though.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2011 08:22PM by emanon.

Yes, +1. "Support" is a mormon guilt inducing word!
(Used in this context.)

I wouldn't stand outside. It is possible this could be me one day. It isn't a boycott if you never had an invitation. From what I understand the wedding for temple brides isn't made very special anyway. She will feel your lack of presence when she is getting dressed and embarrassment that her own mother couldn't go. She is young, but one day she may see what was taken from her after her idealism wears off.

I would do what you are doing. I would never wait outside a TEMPLE for my daughter to come out AFTER the wedding. How ridiculous. I am so sorry she loves her church more than her parents and that is the case. Your feelings are not as important as her odd cult ritual inside that building. Had she ever attended a normal wedding in another church or outdoor setting?? If she did, this temple wedding will be such a letdown. Then I hope she will realize her mistake. Be strong and know you are in the right.

I lived in Utah when my girls were younger. I was shunned for over 4 yrs. when they learned we were not interested in their phony religion. I know what shunning is and it is hurtful. They should all be ashamed to treat you that way. You set boundaries and all they can do is say YOU are treating them badly. They are clueless.

I hope you can get away from all that. I hope one day my convert daughter (who married civilly-thank goodness) and your daughter escape from that controlling cult. I hope you and daughter can still maintain a good relationship. It is easy to do once they know where WE stand and they can accept it. My daughter has and we are fine. But I will never accept her decision to convert- never. She still doesn't know what it is all about. And now she has a two yr. old son they will indoctrinate. It is so sad to know this will happen to such a precious little boy.

My ex-wife asked me if I were going to boycott the temple pictures for my daughter's wedding, like I did for my son's.

I wish I had had the presence of mind to say what suckafoo said above - "it isn't a boycott if you never had an invitation." Right on!

I don't regret my decision to not be there afterwards, waiting outside for pictures. I made sure, for both weddings, that I was involved in all the other activities. For my son, I organized a family wedding breakfast and we used champagne flutes & Martinellis to toast the happy couple. My daughter had a ring ceremony & I was able to "give her away" as the Wedding March played. That was one of the happiest moments of my life.

After all was said & done, I feel good about how things went. They could have been a whole lot worse. The main thing is that I was with my kids as much as I could be on their special days. They know I love them, and not being there for some pictures does not detract from that love - in the least bit.

Emanon, I sympathize with you. My children and I live in Utah in Utah County and we're inactive. While I highly doubt either of them will ever become active in the LDS church again or marry in the temple, there's that remote possiblility it could happen.

I've decided that I will do what my non-Mormon family did. They drove 2 days from the MidWest to wait for me and my husband in the lobby of the temple in a waiting area. We held a special ring ceremony just for them--my bishop at the time helped us conduct it in a very sensitive and meaningful way.

So if my kids do decide to become active again and marry in the temple, I'll be there waiting, showing my support of them--not neccessarily their religion.

My point in relating this story is this: when I finally came to my senses and stopped believing in Mormonism, my parents, my brothers and sisters admitted with a collective sigh of relief: "We wanted to be supportive of you, even though we could never figure out how you fell for that church or its beliefs."

If you looked at the issue with the view of showing your love and support to your daughter, it might help all of you ease the pain of separation that temple marriages cause in part-member families. The suggestion that's been given by other posters for you to host a party or open house after they return from their honeymoon is a great idea.

I wish you and your family the best. It's obvious you're hurting--and I bet your daughter is too. Good luck.

and you have to decide what is best for you. When my daughter went back to the church, I fought her long and hard. It didn't do me any good.

My son got coerced into a marriage after his long-time girlfriend's mother died. It lasted 9 months. None of us wanted that marriage to happen (including him). I Was there for him when I didn't approve. I will be there for my daughter. It is a personal choice.

In my position, my daughter is the only TBM except for my sister and her husband. All her cousins (who are like siblings), her father, twin brother, and I will be outside. She will be the one without family--not I.

I do believe it all depends on your own individual circumstances. I never know--my daughter may see the light before she marries. She can't stand RMs.

hey, emanon - just thinking about you.