A couple of other threads/comments (such as QoD's about her family taking her exmo-ism *personally*, and emanon saying that a TBM told her "you'll be back") reminded me of reactions and comments that I have gotten when sharing with people - acquaintances and strangers alike - that my husband and I are childfree and plan to stay that way. A friend's father said, "Oh, you *have* to have kids!" and other people have condescendingly told me that I'll change my mind. And very odd is the occasional reaction of people - even ones I don't know - who seem to take my decision personally. [I promise I'm not trashing parenthood or kids in these conversations - just matter-of-fact-ly mentioning my and my husband's decision elicits these responses sometimes.]
Anyway, I started thinking about how central family (supposedly) and childrearing are in the LDS world, and wondered if any of you ever were/knew/heard of Mormons who did not want to be parents and acknowledged that out loud to other people. Do childfree Mormons even exist? If so, would they ever admit not wanting to parent? What do you think?
We aren't childfree but only have two and get comments like that-- In one ward, in nursery, a family with 6 kids says don't let us influence you to have more, yeah like that will happen.
Friends in college when we bought a new rather small vehicle that met our needs--but what will you do when you have more kids? We aren't having anymore. But what if you do, no one knows for sure they won't. We do. Accident's happen. Not to us.
And the kicker--from a friend who knew I'd gone in for permanent life altering surgery. You are going to hell for not having more children.
jessica Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We aren't childfree but only have two and get > comments like that-- > In one ward, in nursery, a family with 6 kids says > don't let us influence you to have more, yeah like > that will happen. > > Friends in college when we bought a new rather > small vehicle that met our needs--but what will > you do when you have more kids? We aren't having > anymore. But what if you do, no one knows for > sure they won't. We do. Accident's happen. Not > to us. > > And the kicker--from a friend who knew I'd gone in > for permanent life altering surgery. You are > going to hell for not having more children.
---Nice that your friend is calling god's shots by assigning you to hell. Friend or bitch? Maybe just jelous that you wont be tired and run down when she will.
Raptor Jesus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It may be a while before we do. > > It was easier for us to lie when we were "active." > And say that MRJ was "barren." > > Child Free Mormons have to have a much higher pain > threshold and a lot of snappy comebacks in their > back pockets to survive long.
If you're planning on having children later, but are currently practicing conception control, try this.
Now: "Mrs. Raptor is sterile. We're very distressed about this. An Evangelical Pastor is praying for us. Please, don't YOU pray--we on't want mixed signals going up to God."
Then, when you DO decide to have a family and dump the pills...
Later: "The other guy's prayers worked--we're pregnant!"
We waited five years before we had our first child. Although we hadn't been active in the church in years, people would still ask us if we were having kids all of the damn time. My MIL even told everyone we were having marital problems.
That being said, we have three now. We intended on two and the third was a surprise. To answer your question, I don't know any childfree Mormons. Of course, I know childfree nonMormons.
The idea of having children never appealed to me. Somewhere in my years drifting from the church I realized the church is all about creating families, that there's no honorable place for those who don't want that. Rejecting parenthood would be equal to rejecting God. Any future I might have in the church would mean being miserable -- either for having a family I didn't really want, or for not having a family as was expected.
Rejecting parenthood = rejecting god. Yup, and rejecting godhood! LOL!
When I finally came clean about my apostateness to my father, one of the things I mentioned was how there is no place for a woman who doesn't want to do the mommy thing. He said he knew two young ladies who were good members and "struggling with that very thing".
But... I'm not struggling, it's just one of the many things that make it impossible for me to fit in.
(He so didn't want to acknowledge that I had said "It's a racist, sexist, homophobic institution", he latched on to the no kids thing as if solving that would allow me to brush off the rest. No.)
This topic reminds me of my sister, Ashley (who is never, and will never be, Mo), who tells people all of the time that she doesn't want children, and has no intention of having any. People (mostly family members) tell her, "Oh, you will change your mind" or "someday, you will want some", and she always tells them that she will never change her mind. They don't seem to listen, however. She has gone as far as to tell me that if any future girlfriends want children, they better find someone else to have them with. Finally, and I (personally) think this is kind of funny, she has told me that the thought of having children is "nauseating"-not the birth process, raising them.
No, I do not know any childless Mormons-they all have at least one.
I knew one. She was TBM and she made it clear that she was appalled at the idea of dealing with babies and diapers. She is now retired and never had kids. I do not know how she dealt with the church. Both she and her husband were only children and they may have made some difference.
My ex-dh and I did NOT want them anytime in the first ten years of our marriage. We were 22/23 when we got married and both dual military with multiple upcoming deployments. I was also in college. People made all sorts of comments about how we shouldn't put it off or wait. We ENJOYED being child free and being able to take off on road trips, go out with friends, travel, etc. without the hassle of a child. We were called selfish/self-centered/sinners, all sorts of things by his family, as well as church people. I was even told that if I would quit the Army, and spend more time with my husband and be more feminine in my actions, then maybe we could conceive.
Thankfully, No children resulted from this marriage that ended in divorce!
Personally, whether or not to have children, or how many is NO ONE's business.
DH and I waited 7 years for the first, and three more for the 2nd (and last). Good number, good timing. I was in school, and then my wife (yes, finished BA and then MA, and has since gone back and got her RN).
We have been asked why only two, including by MIL. My standard response is: Why would you possibly think that is any of your business?" Shuts them up every time!
I got married 3 years ago - she brought 5 into the family, I brought 6, and we have one together (all live with us). I get derogatory comments that I'm a bad parent for having so many kids. When my wife miscarried last year some people commented that it was a good thing since she has too many kids already.
Yep, we have six and the comments I always got from Mormons were the stupid "don't you know what causes that?" Or " are you done yet?" Stuff like that. I love my kis, they are all pretty darn awesome! But I also know that raising a family isn't for everyone and it is none of my business when or if people have kids, just like its no ones business as to why we have six and whether or not we will have any more. Oh, and I also hear the comments like, " if you can't afford to pay for your child's college, you shouldn't have kids". Hate that one. Again, no ones business if we pay for college, or they get scholarships or work their way through school, I am not asking anyone else to pay for my kids! Sorry about the short rant!
your kids but it's not quite true that others aren't paying for them. When taxes go up to cover school bonds for example, it isn't just the high production parents who get their taxes increased, it's everybody so the burden of large families gets spread around. The suggestion that the increased weight your kids (and I'm sure they are all great) put on the planet too impacts everyone. How many you have is none of my business. To suggest it doesn't impact me is.
My wife and I have been married for 13 years in August and we have intentionally not had children up to this point. My wife is 32 so it's not too late, but we're still not sure. We go to church every Sunday and very little has been said to us about it. One time in an interview with the bishop a couple years ago, he asked us if we wanted children and we told him we didn't know. He told us that having children would be the most wonderful decision we could make in our lives. We smiled and then didn't say anything. People can say whatever they want, but ultimately, it is our decision. Our ward is really struggling to survive so they really are careful about offending people. They don't want anyone who comes regularly to quit attending. The members are all dying or going inactive. We probably only have an average of 40-50 a week. We shouldn't really even be categorized a ward anymore.
There was a late middle-aged couple in our ward who were childless, but that was down to fertility issues. The lady was the primary teacher and one of the nicest people you could ever wish to meet. The man (I'll never forget him!) had the strongest handshake in the universe! You literally shook up and down with that grasp. The Beevers, they were called, and known throughout North England in mormon circles. Wouldn't surprise me if there are a few people on this board who know them!
But, the reaction, comments, treatment, I would elaborate, but inactive tbm hubby just texted that he is on his way home so I've got to go. I will hopefully post again later. It started as infertility, but has since become a choice- I know I need to explain and I will at some point.
Note: inactive tbm hubby has felt no discrimantion for our status, but as a woman... ohhh the stories
Although I've heard plenty from them too. I live in a small Montana town, and I hear it probably at least once a day from someone--how I'll change my mind (I really hate "here hold my baby and you'll want one of your own!" No, thanks I don't want to hold your baby. Bring him back when he's housebroken) I like kids fine, but I can't stand babies. I wouldn't even play with dolls as a small child--only stuffed animals (to this day I'd rather play with a pile of puppies than a pile of kids) I don't do diapers. And after I worked at a hospital and saw at least one delivery or C-section per night, the whole pregnancy/childbirth thing really freaks me out. Want to keep kids from having sex? Show them the Miracle of Life! Scared me right back on to the straight and narrow!
But what I tell people is that we can't afford it. Yes, DH has a good job, and we have a big-ish house but reality is that we have chosen to live debt-free other than the mortgage, and we don't have an extra $12,000 a year to raise a child. We live very frugally--older vehicles, few toys, minimal vacations, etc. And since I'm self employed, I don't have health insurance. For me to go on DH's policy would be $800/month and I figure that would go a long way towards paying a doctor's bill so I have my little high deductible plan that doesn't cover much just in case something happens, but that's not adequate if you bring a child into the picture. Realistically, we'd have to get divorced and I would have to go on Medicaid and Section 8 and WIC in order for us to afford to have a child. Most people (especially up here) can't fathom not having a child because you can't afford it--but that's what we tell people. Its definitely a consideration for us.
I'm a single mom with one daughter. I would think it would be a turnoff to date s guy with more than two kids. It's like what are you trying to do, repopulate the earth? Geeesh!
Add me to the childless list too. I joined the church in my early 20s. That was one of the doctrines that I didn't agree on. Those spirit children just had to go somewhere else . I do have a mild medical disorder that I could pass on that has different degrees of severity. I lucked out, but my child could either not have it, have a mild case, hardly noticeable( like me), or be very severe.
I have a TBM cousin who can't have kids. Her TBM husband won't let her adopt. So he's intentionally child free, while she's getting screwed over by biology & her jerk husband.
Well, not having little tithe payers is having one less means of control. I mean, if you can "only" threaten a person with losing his or her spouse, but there's no kids in the picture... whaddya gonna do?
Must feel like being naked not to have that automatic power over someone, when they have it for most.
I wanted to have kids and was a virgin when I married my exmo husband. He got snipped when he was with his ex. She had a son from her first marriage and two girls with my husband. They were broke and she got pregnant easily, plus she was a bit of a psycho.
Four years later, they became Mormons. Three years after they became Mormons, they got divorced. She had two more kids with her third husband. My husband got his vasectomy reversed, but I didn't get pregnant. So now I am 44 and child free. His brainwashed ex stepson and daughters haven't spoken to us in years. I think it's probably a blessing now, but it's not what I planned.
I was a childfree mormon back in the day. It's one of the things that first drive me out of the church. I was married back then and my husband got a vasectomy. Awhile after we divorced, he told me he was now considering having kids in the future. He's married again and is TBM-went back to church. So I have no idea now I'd he is planning on trying to reverse vasectomy or whatever.
I still get questions from people about when I'm going to have kids.
I am a childfree Mormon and an active member in my ward.
I actually elected to become surgically sterilized in my 20's because I knew that the kid-centric lifestyle just didn't appeal to me. I get some snide remarks because they don't know (and will never know) that my baby making equipment had been removed. I generally just say that I'm unable to due to medical reasons. Don't get me wrong I do love being an aunt but being a mom just isn't for me. I'm likely to remain single because children are the goal of every Mormon man I have ever met and in all honesty I'm fine with that ... maybe when I'm a crazy old cat lady I'll meet a nice man with grown kids but until that time comes I'm happy doing my own thing.
We do exist but we're like unicorns, heard of but never seen.
My DW is quite the TBM but definitely wants to hold off on kids-- I'm heading to med school in the fall and she is considering law school. Though we no longer agree on theology, at least we agree that we are in no shape to make babies.