https://scitechdaily.com/being-sad-and-lonely-accelerates-aging-more-than-smoking/amp/

The word of wisdom could be updated to include avoid eating and drinking alone in your ivory tower of your eternal testimony.

I imagine that the climb up the ladder is itself sad and lonely.

I doubt it. With all the sycophants striving to catch their eye, I suspect they are too busy basking in constant streams of how great they are to be lonely.

I am probably imagining that the constant struggle to be a center of attention can be frustrating, tiring, scary and finally, lonely.

I think they are probably very lonely. Getting to that position means neglecting your spouse, children, and grandchildren for decades.

And I differ from left4good in the sense that the praise and adulation of sycophants is no substitute for the love of one's family and friends.

I don't believe they are happy men.

I wonder if they are profoundly tired of working. I (mostly) like my job, but in my mid-60s, it's a rare day when I'm not thinking about retirement. I can't even imagine how apostles in their 70s, 80s, and 90s do it. Don't they just want to go fishing? Or sit at home on a cold and wintry day, by a warm fire, reading a book? I don't understand this impulse of religion to keep punishing yourself.

I retired at 50. I played for three years and got bored and started a company. Got sick of golf after playing everyday for six months.

Must have something to do that u enjoy after retirement, I do appliance repair, makes my x wife payment and I enjoy being in charge. However being in leadership positions at that age, no no,no way. Thats why I retired, however we are all different, man who would want to be president of the USA in ur 70;s.

Yeah, but that's at age 50. I'm thinking more 75, 85, 95. Wouldn't they want to enjoy more time with their kids, grand-kids, and great-grands? -- watch their soccer games and school performances? I would think at a certain point, the rest of your life, the part that is not work, would be calling to you more strongly (assuming that you have a strong component of your life that is not work.)

Not if they take their psych meds.

They are jet lagged and old.

I don't know if they are sad or lonely, however their demeanor suggests they suffer from some depression or are repressed due to the countless rules one must follow as a Mormon. I am fortunate to be in a number of musical groups having just played in 7 performances of Cinderella. The folks I associate with always have a ready smile and are genuinely happy. I see no reflection from the GAs of enjoyment of life. It is nothing but endurance and drudgery from their talks and from their expressions. Of course we do not not see their home life so we can only speculate.

If they were genuinely happy, I would think their talks would focus more on positive, upbeat things instead of endless admonishments.

Eric K Wrote:
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> I see no reflection from the GAs
> of enjoyment of life.

That says it all.

I agree with your observation on this Erik.

They are just sacrificing as the next life is going to be worth it. Right?

I'm an introvert. I don't need to be around people a lot. My son is here all the time and has mental illness. He talks to me too much. I have to get my alone time. My "husband" also gets weary of him talking. If you heard what he said, you'd all be like "WHAT!?!?" But we can't get a diagnosis as he is an adult and he won't go to therapy or to a psychiatrist.

When my kids were young and would go with their father or with his family, I'd sit here sometimes and think "what am I going to do when they are gone." (Well, he was gone for a while.) I'd watch the sprinklers go back and forth.

I still work even though I've been retired since 62 and I'm 65. I still do transcription. I only work when I want and that is often daily and I was going to start working.

BUT my sister taught school. She retired last May. She's going back to work. She is 66. She misses some of the people, but she misses teaching the most.

Teaching is the fun part of the job -- well, it's fun if you have nice students. It's everything else that can wear teachers down -- the endless testing and paperwork.

She was supposed to be over the special ed people as she has taught for how long? And a lot was special ed and her degree is special ed. Well, they decided to put her in a room with one kid that was totally out of control and she'd take care of him all day. There was a lot of fighting and the principal got told off by many people who worked there with her over the years, and my sister quit. Then the kid hurt one of the aides and he has been taken out of the school. They were told he never belonged there.

So she ALMOST took a job back in New Mexico where they worked on the reservation for 5 years after they graduated. She said she can't stand all the excess like programs and testing, etc. Reports. She they've taken all the fun out of teaching. She's thinking of going to her son's FIL's burger joint to work a few days a week just to get out of the house.

Your son maybe like me as i have said before but no one listens i guess and he is just insanely different from any human on the planet no matter what he does and probably thinks everyone else is mentally ill as you had told me he knew the religion was false at a young age which tells me right away he is not the mentally ill that everyone thinks but is very smart and emotionally intelligent as you once said. Guess how many diagnosis i have been told throughout my life about a thousand literally since teenage year. I swear i was told and treated as a crazy person since as far back as i can remember no matter what choice or action i made in life i was considered nuts. I could be the most successful person on the planet and i would still be called and treated like i am nuts. The answer is simple and i survived severe abuse and paid the consequences for it in many ways. Didn't ask for it just was born into a bad situation among dangerous individuals that called themselves 'family' but were nothing but a fraud just like religion is and was. If surviving severe abuse is a mental illness then so be it. Nothing i can do about as it is in the past.

Your son is probably not the mentally ill that this world has a diagnosis for because he is just different and probably very high on the empathic scale above the normal empathic individual is my guess. If they can not find a diagnosis for him or diagnosed with hundreds of diagnosis. It is a clear son that he is probably a starseed and tell him to look it up. Things may click for him. No diagnosis or many diagnosis means you have a starseed child high on the empathic scale. Probably very sensitive kid and struggles in crowds as well.

We need him to get diagnosed so we can get him disability. I actually believe if he got a job, then he'd do much better, but that is impossible. He won't try to get a job. I told him about Amazon having seasonal workers and I would assume some are on the computer, but he wants to prove to his old employers that he can go back there and they owe it to him.

He doesn't get out and he won't go with us no matter where we ask him to go. Like I went to Ogden to my brother's to take him a birthday gift (he is my sibling I'm closest to and more a son). He has a lot of anxiety, etc., and somehow has made it in life with great difficulty. He'd probably hire my son if he'd go with me to visit. My son had a mental breakdown 2+ years ago and ended up in the hospital. We now have medicaid. He is 37. You two should probably get together and talk.

I listen and most of the time reply. I work at home typing and I'm listening to doctors dictate. He'll stand here behind me for 3 hours and talk and he'll keep saying, "I know, I'm not supposed to be talking to you now" and then continue talking. He has gotten violent with me a few times and I had to go stay at my boyfriend's for a week or two. We had to call for domestic violence on him as he was beating his dad up (I can understand his anger at his dad, but his dad has been trying and pays for everything for him). Don't ever call the cops. It only made things much worse and they postponed his court date two times. Live with him under this stress level.

He is great on the computer. I wish he'd take classes at Bridgerland. He passed the entrance test twice and I got him grants and he never went and now won't take the tests again even if his dad said he'll go take them, too, and he'll take the classes with him. He was so late getting ready yesterday he was too late for his appt at his doctor's office where he gets his refills--and he is OCD about his refills, but didn't get ready in time.

He ended up being lifeflighted to SLC in April. He had gone to CA to visit my husband's two old boyfriends in San Diego and he FORGOT to get his refills and didn't even think about it. when he ended up having seizures and I was going through other stuff and so my "husband" spent 2 days in the hospital with him. When I got there, I said "has he had his refills?" Nobody even know. He had been without klonopin for 11 days--cold turkey. It is a seizure med that they use for anxiety. Then he had white blood cells in his cerebrospinal fluid. White count was quite high. They knew he had meningitis, but thought it was bacterial, so life flighted him. It was viral. He's been worse since.

I have to be careful as he gets violent with me and I'll never call the cops again. He does have a therapist, but she doesn't tell us anything and he has given us permissoin to talk to her, but she won't. She works for Bear river Mental health. He won't go to my therapist, who could do everything he needs done. It is a daily what? Oh, he stays up all night and then sleeps 4 hours. If I tell him he has to sleep, he gets angry. I used to type a psychiatric hospital. The people who don't get enough sleep end up running down the street naked after 5 days. It is what? A very fragile situation.

He likes my sister and brothers, but he won't go when they ask. My sister is really good with him. Oh, and he takes his meds too fast and runs out. So now we are going to try giving them to him. We'll see how that goes. He said he might awnt us to. He quit alcohol by himself and he had subutex to get off hard drugs 10 or 15 years ago. He is very intelligent and is more than likely an empath. I have very high emotional intelligence per my therapist and so does my son. My husband not so much and our daughter not so much--his twin. They used to be close. She will arrive any day from Alaska. They drove down in their motor home and they've been on the road 3 weeks today going to parks along the way. I can't wait. But they don't get along now. Her husband is a lot like my son and they get along. He's just into video games, etc., and good on computers. I adore my SIL. He's so good to all of us. Was that long enough? I do everything I can for him and he knwos I love him. He has 2 bedrooms--get that one. 5 bedroom house and he has 2 of them. One for VR, one for sleeping and watching movies. I have the second smallest bedroom in the house. My "husband" uses the smallest for an office. I actually probably enable him more than likely. I'm the type. I'll have him look that up.

I'd love it if we could get you and him together sometime if I can get him out of the house. I think you'd be good for each other. Oh, he thinks he has dissociative identity disorder and his therapist thinks so,too, but she can't be the one who does the diagnosis and BRMH won't send him to the psychiatrist. They havne't been much help. my therapist can diagnose him--but like I said, he won't go to him. We are more frustrated than anything. My son will always be welcome in my home. Sometimes I think if I went to live somewhere (like my sister going to NM, but now she isn't) that he'd do better.

They do have that one party at the temple on Sunday nights where they can be pious and wash people's feet. That makes them feel a little bit important. But other than that it is just funeral, funerals and more funerals. That is just sad.

I knew Paul H. Dunn. I often think that the extracurricular business activity (however misplaced)that he pursued, and that was outside of his general authority duties, was a reflection of his discontentment within the church. For example, I remember one time when I was in his office that he interrupted our conversation with a phone call. He was speaking to a business leader concerning a keynote address that he was asked to give at their corporate get together. His demeanor during the call was night and day different from the demeanor he exhibited at church functions and meetings. I believe that the culture of the church has a way to suck out the life of a devout member - whether an apostle or a not.

J. Golden Kimball did his best to portray a Natural Man serving as a church leader.

The current crop of ne'er-do-well GAs, and those aspiring to become GAs, have rejected the Natural Man and pretty much only appeal to those who have taught themselves to admire mormon unNatural Man qualities.

What's it like to keep yourself prisoner for the crime of attempted mormon perfection?

Exhausting. More than just GAs attempt it.

What about the guy who pounds the drum in the slave galley? Is he sad and lonely?

Of course, how would I know how Wendy is to live with?

The church and its leaders have butted their way into everyone's business for way too long.

I think they're angry with no need to be. They live a charmed life, so they should all be smiling and high-fiving people as the walk in town. But they all become like the Muppets' Sam the Eagle -- scowling and disapproving.

They have distant or nonexistent relationships with their families, no genuine friendships, no privacy; and they spend their entire lives promoting what they know is a lie.

I think they are every bit as dejected and angry as they appear.

Look at all those guys sitting on the stand at conference. It's impossible to discern if their dour expressions are from trying to look spiritual or if they are just constipated.

I'd take the bet but only if you agree to do the research.

Probably the loneliest people there are underneath the false exterior of fake smiling. They could be lonelier than myself which is really saying something.

Both I'm hoping.

I think there are many sycophants gathering around them.

So here's the punchline. Why aren't their more death among the lot of anointed ones if being sad and lonely is as bad as smoking for longevity?

I think that the top leaders are scared of death so they will do ANYTHING to continue living. Sure they won't dare admit to engaging in anything that would make them or the church look bad- hey they might drink hot coffee and teas or roll their own joints or rub CBD oil to treat arthritis. But they will do it as the means justify the ends which is to continue serving LDS Corp for as long as they can.

Think about it- members really know very little about the top 15's private lives.

Did his father beat him. Did his mother shun and mock him. Was he ever a fun date in college? Picturing his poor wife on their wedding night.... ugh.

My cousin lives in their neighborhood and says she has rarely seen any sign he actually lives there with his wife, who spends most of her time with their children's families. Do they keep him in a casket in the basement of the temple?

Maybe it doesn't matter if they are sad and lonely.

https://neurosciencenews.com/age-genetics-21597/

I think your question above starts from the wrong perspective. If you begin with people who have already become apostles, their very survival to that point means they have superior genetics.

You would get a markedly different outcome if you started the experiment ex ante by naming the apostolic candidates when they were 20 and seeing how their lives had played out decades later. It's virtually certain that such an exercise would show that the prospective apostles fared like everyone else in their demographic cohort give or take a bit due to abstention on the one hand and increased stress on the other.

Some were probably like some Nazi APs I had on my mission. Being sad and lonely is countered by their pleasure with power and accolades.

I think they are virtually all like that and have been so for decades.

The Apostles are empty and too busy making others sad and lonely to end up that way themselves.

Smokers often have better social lives due to their shared addiction.

Interesting analogy. Lots of friendships begin with two strangers stepping outside for a puff.

Lots of alliances are also made by strangers stepping inside to discuss ruining lives.

We could really use some type of all inclusive "common ground" superior to those which are our current go-to's.

George P Lee lives somewhere in the back of their minds...

I think they have come to fear death as they come to grips with how they have been betrayed and how they have betrayed so many others. But that would take a level of self-awareness I am not sure they are capable of.