It's interesting to me reading the topic on lying during an interview with a Bishop or Stake Pres. There seem to be two camps, those who lied and those to didn't... Neither option seems to have made anyone feel any better.

Those who lied seem to have "survived" a little easier because they didn't have their reputation ruined and moved though the phases of "exaltation" faster. But if they were like me, and based on the comments, a lot are, the lying made us feel terrible, there was constant guilt and worry that you'd be caught or the spirit would somehow let the interviewer know. It also made things confusing... If we can just lie to get ahead, why not continue sinning and then lie to cover it up...

Those who told the truth, got all the guilt plus the potential gossip (I've never known a Bishop to keep their mouth shut for long, even if they just tell their wife about some of the stuff they hear, that's bad enough), extra counseling, and the inability to gain the "rewards" that are for "good" people.

I guess I'm just now realizing that the interview process is part of the cult standard. If you tell the truth, you get guilt and are made to "stay true" to avoid the shame and guilt in the future. If you lie, you get guilt and are made to "stay true" so that you don't get caught. So, the method of getting people to stay true might be different but ultimately the results are the same, the person is shamed into doing better. I wonder how often people like the interview process and actually feel uplifted and good after it.

I also have to wonder, based on some comments if some interviewers aren't getting some "gratification" at the expense of the person being interviewed, because it's not allowed in other forms...

In all, it just adds another log to the fire that's burning away the last vestiges of any belief I might still harbor in the church (which are pretty much just ashes now as it is).

Your second to last statement there I am sure is true. I have told this sick story before but it is the absolute truth. I got married in the middle of my freshman year at BYU, so of course had to go in for THE interview.

Near the end, this young bishop said to me "Are you looking forward to having sex with your new husband?"

I was shocked, embarrassed and turned red but timidly said "yes".

Then came the real shocker when he said ,"Well, sister, if he should ever not meet your needs, you just roll over in bed and masturbate."

I nearly died on the spot. And I could not even speak of it to ANYONE for many years. I eventually told my then husband, but it took a long time. I just kept wondering what that man was really doing behind that great big desk. And that is the honest truth.

...if not across the board. I mean, some bishops are pretty good guys. There are a few people on the board, however, that can tell you about bishops, stake presidents, and high council members hanging on every titillating word during interviews and church court proceedings.

at least he could have been SUBTLE about it (Same Message):

'Take care of Yourself' or something like that!

Very crass way to put it, but I respect the Bishop for giving the thumbs up for masturbation especially to the woman.

I've heard of too many wives who catch their husband masturbating (with or without porn) and call it cheating.

If you haven't read about that, you should.

Part of the cult mentality is to keep you in a constant state of guilt no matter what.

And also to set up that the ONLY way for you to be released from that guilt is through the organization.

However, that's just not how it works in real life. So you feel guilty no matter what you do, and will always feel that way. But you are tricked into feeling that you NEED the organization.

RJ- where can I read about the Double Bind, I have heard of that, and what exactly does it mean.

Is it what you are explaining in your post about constant guilt from but still needing the organization?

Maybe that's why I had such overwhelming feelings of freedom, of just being free to be me, when I finally told the truth and left.
It was very scary, but the most freeing feeling I have ever in my life known.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2011 07:15PM by think4u.

Go to the Main Menu of RFM and it is listed as one of the links there

Thanks, will do!

Thanks for the suggestion... While I didn't read the whole thing (there's a lot there) I did read though a good portion of how it applies to mormonism and I'm amazed at how accurately I can apply my own experiences to it... right down to thoughts of suicide as early as a teenager and on my mission because of the guilt and loss of self. (now I understand that better and why it has been diminishing since I've gotten out)

What's also interesting to me is how the church set's it up like a pyramid scheme, setting up bishops and stake presidents as both bound and binder... They are bound themselves, that's how they got in that position and I can't believe they are all bad (some of them have got to feel guilty about asking those questions in interviews but do it out of guilt/responsibility, i.e. they are bound, if I understand it right)... All while being setup in an "unknowing" binder position...

It's kind of like the church is setup as a self perpetuating double blind.

It was the first "anti mormon" literature I read, and I read it with deep fascination at the time.

By and by, if subjected to enough interviews and prying, one learns to provide fewer and fewer details. Back in the 1970s I had a district president who took it upon himself to change and/or add to all the temple recommend questions, then had everyone in for new temple recommend interviews. We all said, "Baaaaaah," and queued up for the new and unnecessary interviews.So my branch president began interviewing me and asked,

"Do you masturbate?"

"That's not one of the questions," I protested.

"Well, President Darnell wants us to start asking this."

Hmm, I think to myself. This is something he doesn't need to know.

"No," I said.

"Do you have oral sex with your wife?" he asked. I protested again. "Well, it's another thing he wants us to ask."

Doesn't need to know this, either, I think to myself.

"No," I responded.

"Sex with an animal? Have you ever had sex with an animal?" he asked.

That experience set a stage for me. Up to that point I had been pretty darn honest or at least felt huge guilt if I ever withheld any information. When I was in college I must have gone to the bishop 4 or 5 times confessing to dirty thoughts and masturbation. From this point on I was very careful to own up to anything, and began thinking that they just didn't have to know. By the end of my tenure in the church I was already drinking wine, beer, and coffee, but had a temple recommend. They are required, but I just no longer cared, and didn't care what the outcome would be if I were found out. Then I resigned, but much too late.

Someone really asked if you had sex with an animal?

And it just got worse and worse over the following two years. Even the mission president, an effeminate little Japanese-Canadian guy, was afraid of the man. By the end of his tenure, all the women were wearing long dresses and skirts, the men could not even have sideburns, and even male investigators had to wear a white shirt and tie or they could not come to gospel essentials class. He did the church a great amount of damage, or--as I look back at it now--he did us all a great big favor. I bet you that among all of us who were subjected to him, there are quite a few who no longer practice Mormonism.

When I decided that I was going to attend my son's temple wedding, I had already decided that I no longer bought the church's baloney. But I started attending all of my meetings, tried hard to look pious instead of bored, paid all of my tithing, and played Molly Mormon to the best of my ability.

I had absolutely NO qualms about lying to the bishop or the stake pres. I knew by then that they had no special powers or "discernment." I was drinking tea by then and even quaffing the occasional margarita. But I was the very image of wide-eyed sincerity when asked about whether I kept the Word of Wisdom.

I never felt a twinge of guilt when I attended my son's wedding.

After all - whose guilt is greater: I, who lied to the church, or the church, who lied to me?

And just exactly where is the sin? I look back at it now and think, "Beer-drinking's a sin?" "Coffee's a sin?"

You're right. The church is steeped in a long tradition of sin and lies. For me, it all evens out.

That's exactly what I did catnip. And I had not one ounce of guilt for lying.

I hated the interviews. I always felt so guilty even though I was a good little molly mormon. I never lied at first, because luckily I never did anything too bad. Well, until I was engaged at least. And yeah I confessed that too. I coudln't take the scarament for two weeks and was told to read miracle of forgiveness- one of the most harmful books ever written IMO. I kept doing "bad things" with my fiance, but I decided that the bish and stake pres didn't need to know about that. We never had sex and they made me suffer through miracle of forgiveness which basically told me that as a victim of sexual abuse it was my fault and I was doomed to hell. I figured that was enough penace for messing around with my fiance.

At BYU, you had to be interviewed once a year for the ecclesiastical (sp?) endorsement. One year the bishop asked if I wanted to confess anything to him! This was the year one of my roommates had ratted me out to the bishop for having my hands under my boyfriend's shirt and touching his bare back. Scandalous! I confessed that I stayed in boys' apartments past curfew. I was so afraid, but the bishop didn't blink an eye. I'm sure he had much worse things to worry about with horny college students than a girl who only stayed past curfew and had her hands under a shirt but nowhere else.

Ah the memories. I can't say they are good ones.

When I had my baptismal interview, I was 12 because we were converts. My mom sat in with me (only time she ever did) and the bishop said "Now I HAVE to ask you these questions in order for you to get baptized. I have to know if you do any of these things. If you don't know what they are, you probably aren't doing them and you can ask your mom what they are afterward. OK?" Then he proceeded to ask me about a list of sins I'd never even heard of. So I said "No, I don't do any of those." Which was true. But later, when I asked Mom what all of them were, she turned red and admitted even she hadn't heard of some of them but one she recognized was sex with animals.

WTF? I was 12 and a middle aged man my mom barely knew asked me if I liked to have sex with animals right in front of my mom!! And she still somehow thought this was a good church to join. Can I just repeat that WTF?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2011 08:43PM by CA girl.

Those seemed to be the standard convert baptism interview questions back when I was a missionary. More than once I had to ask if a convert had an abortion. It got super awkward and several times I had to call the mission president. Lots of masterbaters out there ;) They all swear they stopped and will never do it again. Shame on them! Never had anyone admit to murder though...

I'd think of it as prepping a witness. Yes, no, or I don't remember. Point is, don't offer up any information.

"Do you follow the word of wisdom?"

Welll... I had an iced coffee with a red bull chaser this morning, does that count...?

Negative. Correct answer, "Yes."

I was furious when my fiance felt the need to confess what I considered to be a PG rated make-out session to the bishop. Especially since the Bishop was my uncle and I was staying in his house.

Wow. That's embarrassing. I would be upset too. It is none of anyone's business!

I used to be terribly honest, but I don't believe the church is terribly honest with me. I've determined to give them a dose of their own medicine and only tell them the "faithful history."

I was sent home from my mission because I didn't confess before I left and it ws eventually found out after 18 months in the 'field'. I only lied about some of the more minor 'sins' that don't even get you formally disciplined. But then I 'comitted' a more major sin - right before going through the temple and a number of times after that before I left. I just didn't confess. Even when I was set apart I was questioned but the specific question was not asked (he referred to my girlfriend and asked if there was anything he needed to know - I guess the guy was embarased to ask such questions) so I avoided answering it the was he intended. When I got home I had aparently lied about everything when really it was more a case of not telling anyone. It was also the questions from the stake president when I got home that were horrid - how many times did you do it, how many people, where did I do it (for each occurance), how much clothing were you wearing, how long were we at it for, what exactly did each person do in the exact order it happened each time... The list goes on.

But the most shocking thing was being asked "Did she orgasm?" -I lied to that question (honest with all the other questions but I thought that was none of his business - or mine). He also told me I didn't love my now wife, and that I lusted her - so what was the point of his questions? His own lust maybe? It resulted in my excommunication and I woke up to the fact that this was not God's way but man's corrupt policy.

When the SP spoke to a GA (Elder Ford) he relayed to me that Elder Ford had told him that the worst thing I had done was not tell anyone - all I can tell from that comment is that he was of the view that not telling anyone was worse than the actual 'sins' I was questioned for! After a dispute to get copies of the disciplinary council report (which is ongoing - the Church do not want to accept the law) - I wanted to see what was written about me as the SP majorly exhadurated everything into something it was not - I ended up writing to the Church's solicitors and Tommy Monson telling them how this SP treated me and exaining my request for a copy of the report but nothing seems to have been done about the abusive SP as far as I know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2011 08:43PM by londonuk.

That is so whacked! I'm amazed they sent you home for that. After 18 months of inservitude to the cause of the Corporation of the President of the Church of JC of LDS, you would think any prior sins would be pardoned.

Maybe you just weren't well connected enough. One of my companions was grandson of one of the 12. According to him, he had sex every day until he was dropped at the mtc. He confessed after getting to England and although he was interviewed extensively, it was more embarassing for the church to send him home than let him stay.

As a side note, i could never understand why he seemed to have the spirit so much stronger than anyone I'd ever met when he had supposedly done such "bad" things. He must have had the Joseph Smith gene down.

This is interesting, because this totally depends on your mission president. I confessed to some things on my mission that would have gotten me sent home under many other presidents. I had a companion that confessed to fornication prior to the mission that didn't get sent home. I actually still hold a lot of respect for my MP because he cared more about the missionaries than the rules.

Actually - my MP had to call up Salt Lake and speak with the Apostles - but it was actually probably the people under them that do their work. I know the name he mentioned (the person who called back with the decision) was not one of the 12. The MP clearly explained that you're called by the 12 and it's the 12 who decide if you're sent home or not - not the MP. Also the 'major sins' had stopped but there were still some 'less major' ones. I would have done much better as an LDS if I stayed on my mission rather than be sent home to be abused. Better to kill one than a whole nation perish!

Years ago, I was 'invited' to attend a bishop's court. They were accusing me of apostasy. I told them they were trumped up charges, & since they started the mess all by themselves, they could finish it all by themselves. Then I was 'invited' to a 'court of love'. I told them to knock themselves out as I would not be there, either. The result: disfellowshippment. Big deal.

where privacy kicks in and any bishop or stake president is not allowed to breach my privacy issues. Unfortunately, children are not taught that in the LDS Church, but in my view, they ought to!

Nobody has a right to your personal privacy if you don't want to share.

The problem is that the LDS Church is not a democracy. It's a theocracy and you are guilty, guilty, guilty, without evidence or proof. The leaders decide what is best for you without your approval or consent.

Reason #253 why I'm not a Mormon anymore!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2011 12:44PM by SusieQ#1.

Remember that for your next TSCC "interview".