This was fascinating. And Heather was impressive. Before all this this came crashing, she was high up in church leadership and a diligent, faithful member.
Heather talked about her relationship with Chad and Tammy. She was very clear and fair, but gave the impression that Chad was jealous of his other brothers' successes and education, especially Heather's husband, Matt.
Heather had never got along with Chad and he disliked her. She found the situation very troubling but until the children were found, she had nothing substantial she could go to the police with.
For me, Part 3 was the most compelling. The experience with church leaders - their homophobia and mysogyny and lack of discernment about Chad - led her down a heavy path of learning about the church's history, policy and doctrines - all material she could have easily learned by coming here to RFM. You all could have saved her a lot of time, money and anguish.
She has now left the Church. Her husband is "nuanced". Her son is going on a mission. The family is divided with respect to their levels of belief. But she's OUT!
There was an intriguing dynamic in the interview. John and Lauren Matthias are the hosts of the podcast that did the interview, "Hidden - a True Crime Podcast" . She is an LDS Journalist; John is a non-mormon forensic psychologist. The dynamic between Lauren and Heather was interesting as Heather explained all the problems with LDS history and doctrine. I couldn't help but wonder if Lauren knew the details she was hearing or if it was new to her. But I think she was a little bit uncomfortable hearing the problems.
> She has now left the Church. Her husband is > "nuanced". Her son is going on a mission. The > family is divided with respect to their levels of > belief.
Isn't "nuanced" one of the most versatile words in the English language? There are so many ways in which it can be profitably employed. For instance,
"Some say the LDS church's truth claims are fraudulent but others prefer the term 'nuanced.'"
"Einstein's religiosity is so nuanced you could drive a truck through it, a truck full of Tao."
"When interviewed, more than one woman described EOD's masculinity as highly nuanced."
"Upstate New York is experiencing nuanced weather today."
"Marjorie Taylor Greene is reportedly incapable of any sort of nuance."
I first recall that word from art class, years and years ago, and not a common usage.
It seems somewhere in the past 15 years, someone used it in politics, or psychology, to describe something they couldn't describe and it became "word of the day"!
We all love the feel of a new word coming out of our mouths!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2022 09:54AM by auntsukey.
Having now listed to the entire interview, I have to say that Heather Daybell is a very impressive woman.
I agree with auntsukey that the third episode is best. The first two are slower and more hesitant: the material is important because it covers the lurid Chad-Lori story, but she seemed hesitant and was making lots of annoying grammatical mistakes. But she really hit her stride in the third episode, when she was talking about her decision to leave the church.
There's a pattern I've noticed, whereby people continue fully faithful year after year until there is a major event, a major disappointment. The disappointment doesn't cause the loss of faith, but it opens the door to honest exploration and honest thought. Heather (I don't want to use her last name) fits that pattern: the murders were the precipitating blow, followed by deep and sincere research and consideration and the inevitable departure from God's Green Acre.
It's nice to see such a strong, intelligent, and honest woman emerge from such a tawdry story. Thank you, devoted.
I don't know if major disappointment is quite the right descriptor of this rift. It seems like what happens is that people like Heather are seekers of a moral clarity (especially in times of crisis) and that once hers appears to supersede the leadership of her religion, she realizes she's been duped. That's what seems to cause the digging deeper and the desire to look behind the curtain. Then the shelf comes crashing down. Then, people like her feel like they've outgrown the pitiful confines of a religion they once clung to.
I think that's what happened to me with Catholicism. I felt that my moral understanding started to exceed that of the church. In my case it mostly had to do with the church's treatment of women. And you can add its treatment of child abuse victims to that list.
It seems like what happened to me too. I certainly felt I'd outgrown their situational ethics, their judgementalism, their narrow world view, etc. It was all just too small for me.
The pre-existence was a probation, and so too is earthly life. I think that's as far as it goes, but it's probably easy enough to expand the idea if a freak wants to do so.
The multiple Christs idea is doctrinally necessary because we know that Jesus was the first fruits of they who have died, the first resurrected being. But Elohim was a resurrected being, meaning that he had been saved by a previous divine sacrifice. And that logic implies infinite Christs for infinite worlds.
There's another way of looking at this. Until the 1930s LDS doctrine allowed for progress between kingdoms, meaning that someone in the Telestial Kingdom could over time reach the Terrestrial and then the Celestial Kingdom. In those circumstances the afterlife too is a probationary period or process.
What your source adds is that there could be multiple human incarnations and reincarnations as opposed to a human becoming a god and then becoming a Christ before finally entering into his glory as a card-carrying God. If that is truly an old JS doctrine (we have to remember that BY is the only apostle who thought JS taught Adam God; Orson Pratt and Lyman (?), who were also present, did not think JS said that), then Daybell and other modern extremists may be onto something.
I also find it interesting to think about the Kabbalah. JS did study that stuff and it probably also had echoes in the fringe radicalism of the American frontier, so he may have imbibed the reincarnation idea from those sources. I guess the bottom line is that early Mormonism was boiling cauldron of ideas whose steam floated off in many directions. It's hard to define with confidence what ideas were NOT present at the time.
It's no surprise to me that Rexburg is awash in nutters of the LDS variety. Provo/Orem has always been so too. It's far fringier than mainstream mormonism around SLC.
I'm not understanding the logic. How does LDS mainstreaming in any way imply that any of the Q15 are closet fundies?
For that matter, why would FLDS have any problem dealing with LDS mainstreaming? they always held that the SLC church was in a state of apostasy. This is just a new coat of apostasy paint.