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Posted by: Buzz Armstrong ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 06:21AM

https://news-in.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/joseph-smith-india-world-peace-dome

Not sure which is more sinister here... the massive idol of Joseph Smith or the obvious attempt to help create a centrally controlled one world religion.

Joseph Smith himself said all the other churches were false, let alone the other religions. Whatever one thinks of Smith himself, we should be very concerned at the LDS involvement in a project designed to rid us of individual autonomy and free agency at a religious level too.

"A 15-foot-high bronze statue of the Prophet Joseph Smith was unveiled on Tuesday, November 22, 2022, at the World Peace Dome in Pune, India. The statue of the founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints joins the statues of 54 other religious leaders, scientists and philosophers that adorn the 263-foot-high dome at the MIT World Peace University."

In the picture, Joseph Smith has one of those Indian wreaths draped over him, Hawaiian style, and the church leaders are doing an Indian gesture in front of him.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 08:21AM

Whoa. I thought this was a parody when first seeing this post. Sigh. 15,000 members in a country of over a billion. India has its own struggles without adding yet another cult. Fortunately the Mormon influence there is insignificant. The Mormon leaders got a nice vacation to an exotic location however.

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Posted by: DaveinTX ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 03:25PM

Pune is anything but exotic....... Think call centers and outsourced engineering functions due to the low labor costs.

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: October 07, 2023 01:56PM

Those were my thoughts too. I wanna vacation like that.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 10:50AM

Seeing that 15 foot high statue of JS brought the same reaction to me as when I saw the picture of him with his face stuffed in hat: absolute shock!

The people at the foot of the statue look like they are in reverence to his image.

I thought Mormons aren't supposed to worship idols, or have "any other gods before me"?

I've gotta show this to my TBM daughter and SIL. :O

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 10:59AM

That's the kind of thing they are going to spend money on now? Everything about it seems contrary to what they used to teach.

They obviously want "their guy" among the other religious statues.

I think Eric nailed it- it's a new vacation spot they can market as another Mormon pilgrimage stop.

What's next? A JS statue in Australia with him holding a boomerang?

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Posted by: Not in recovery ( )
Date: October 07, 2023 02:49AM

The Church spent no money on this statue or commissioned its creation. It was initiated by an Indian leader from the Peace University in India that approached the Church to ask permission to do include a Joseph Smith statue with the over 200 other statues in the rotunda. The Peace University initiated and paid for it.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 07, 2023 03:33AM

The church certainly, and pathetically, celebrated the erection of the monument and publicized it, which was of course an investment.

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: October 07, 2023 01:51PM

Of course it is about money. How does a huge country like India even know about a podunk little Mormon Church in Utah? They are being targeted by the rich mormon leadership.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 12:50PM

15 minutes on the life of Joseph Smith and lemme guess not one mention of the fact they made a 15ft tall bronze idol out of a serial sexual predator!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:05PM

Isn't it sort of just a regular thing, like it's in-bred, for males to be serial sexual predators?

Just cuz many of us learn how to say 'please' and 'thank you' doesn't change our basic "natural man" programming.

And woe unto me, because I believe I have been subject to female serial sexual predation...  

But I do agree wholeheartedly with The Cat that the mormon church ought to be avoided in terms of getting help planning your life.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:11PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I do agree wholeheartedly with The Cat

Did you feel the earth shake just then?

Wow. EOD & "The Cat" are on the same page.

For a moment in time. :)

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 25, 2022 09:24AM

A dog and a cat? Unlikely to end well...

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:09PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they made a 15ft tall bronze idol


Psalm 135:15-18:

The idols of the nations are silver and gold,
    made by human hands.
 
They have mouths, but cannot speak,
    eyes, but cannot see.
 
They have ears, but cannot hear,
    nor is there breath in their mouths.
 
Those who make them will be like them,
    and so will all who trust in them.


1 John 5:21:

“Little children, keep yourselves from idols.”

-----

To be clear, there is a distinction between idols and idolatry but often it may be a fine one (as in, best to avoid altogether).

I'm not sure how faiths such as Catholicism, for example, interpret these biblical admonitions, given their propensity for statues and images.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:01PM

Shouldn't he have a phallus? I mean, it IS India.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:02PM

"Mormons are NOT weird!" Said no one ever.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:13PM

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Mormons are NOT weird!" Said no one ever.

Thanks for the laugh.

On a tough day when my car is in the shop. It is seriously not behaving itself and I am feeling sorry for myself in anticipation of another whopping bill so laughing is good.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 02:02PM

cludgie Wrote:
------------------------------
> Shouldn't he have a phallus?
> I mean, it IS India.


He should have an ENORMOUS phallus, as befits someone called of ghawd to lead a new dispensation!!

And he should have an enormous appetite for everything worth consuming!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 25, 2022 11:28AM

Correction: Massive idol of Joseph Smith "erection" in India.

The reporters really need to keep an eye on their spell-chek. Changes every thing.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 06:47PM

Let's be nice. The church is proud of Joseph's massive erection.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 01:38PM

"We're not a cult! There's a larger than life statue of Joseph Smith in India!"

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 02:10PM

Looks like a golden idol to me.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 02:18PM

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like a golden idol to me.

Maybe tithes were low so they could only make it bronze.

It's OK though - the Bible verses I posted above only mention silver and gold statues/idols. So with bronze Mo Inc is good to go. Ahead of the curve.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 03:05PM

With all the fuss about emphasizing Jesus and not mentioning the word "Mormon" I'm surprised The Mormon church didn't erect a statue of Christ to represent their church. Why Joseph Smith? Everyone must know what a skuzz he is.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 05:57PM

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all the fuss about emphasizing Jesus and not
> mentioning the word "Mormon" I'm surprised The
> Mormon church didn't erect a statue of Christ to
> represent their church.

This is on the list of Top Ten Reasons Mormons aren't Christians, according to non-Mormon Christians.

Too much Joseph Smith. Not much Jesus.

It may fluctuate from ward to ward but in the ward I attended this was the case. On visits to potential investigators missionaries carried the Bible but didn't speak of it or refer to it. But apparently possessing it aimed to give assurance that they are Christian and the BoM is just another witness. They never say it's the paramount one and that it supersedes all others in Mormon World.

I also kept waiting for enlightenment in the temple (as had been promised), preferably of the Christian kind, but it didn't happen.

This is yet another example of why The Naked Emperor is such a fitting metaphor for Mormonism. He sits there, unattractive in body and mind, demanding obeisance, completely starkers. Yet all the people are afraid to whisper uh ummm, what the H? And if a clueless convert like me, looking puzzled, splutters "uh, wha..., ack, where's his trousers, everybody says he's wearing a fine suit of grey pinstripes. Uh...Oh...Kay. Scary when people try to tell you that white is black, the sun is the moon, and the mouthpiece of the Mormon God is very well dressed indeed. Scarier still when you bite your tongue and try to puzzle out why you're the only one seeing the white belly.

You'd think that would be an instant clue to get the heck out of Dodge. Many do, as we know, some a whole lot faster than others.

It's a colossal waste of time, thought, energy, money and anything else one could hold of value.

I try to be charitable, not too caustic, but some memories make it tough to achieve it 100% of the time.

With a lot of the members they don't know what they don't know. Which is sad.

I know I don't have a lot of room to talk, still being of a religious bent, but hey, at least it ain't Mormonism.

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Posted by: decultified ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 03:14PM

"Praise to the Man" would sound really trippy on a sitar. Have they translated it into Hindi?

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Posted by: Joe Marler ( )
Date: October 07, 2023 02:14PM

decultified Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Praise to the Man" would sound really trippy on a
> sitar. Have they translated it into Hindi?

You're more likely to hear it on Africam war drums these days.... but here's an Indian version. Minus sitar.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9REFyCJqL28?feature=shared

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 03:20PM

graven images

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Posted by: I ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 05:15PM

Friend

Ha

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 06:34PM

And idol of an idle man.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 07:31PM

My first question was "how much did the statue of Joseph Smith cost"?

A poor widow is paying tithing and the lds church spends money on a statue. What would Jesus do? Hmm Jesus would build a big statue of Joseph Smith and he would build a Cherry Creek mall. No Jesus would buy land in Florida. Jesus would go to India where there is a lot of poverty and build a statue of Joseph Smith. Paying tithing can break the poverty cycle. Sorry for my rant. I am so disappointed how little good a cooperation does with a 100 billion dollar rainy day fund. Probably I am to naive thinking that money can solve all problems but a statue of Joseph Smith? Build a school house, a soup kitchen, a vale for clean drinking water. Plant trees or food. A stature of Joseph Smith helps nobody.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 07:49PM

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Build a school house, a soup kitchen, a vale for clean drinking water. Plant trees or food.

If they did, members would likely be a lot happier about the tithing.

Still, it should not be compulsory. That is still quite shocking to me. Have lots of kids and give us a huge whack of cash from your gross income. And be nagged or shunned or disciplined if you don't.

The Mormon recipe for happiness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2022 07:49PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 09:12PM

“I am grateful to God for the Prophet Joseph Smith, for his life of sacrifice and for his role in restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ,” said Husein, who helped facilitate the placement of the Joseph Smith statue in the World Peace Dome. “Among many principles that Joseph Smith taught, he also advocated the rights of all human beings, the freedom to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience. … He also encouraged self-reliance and the need to follow the commandment of Jesus Christ to love our neighbor as ourselves.”

JS married a 14 year old! He was not about rights for all humans. The lds church still is sexist. The Relief Society works under the Priesthood. But JS did not want to do polygamy an angel with an lightening sword had commanded Joseph Smith to do it. Barf

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: November 24, 2022 10:27PM

I thought Carthage proved it was possible to take a joke too far, but the 15' statue makes me reconsider.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 25, 2022 02:42AM

India is a land full of gods: gods from the main traditions, gods from dead faiths, gods who are completely forgotten, gods known only from prehistoric baked mud; and all are treated theoretically with respect but in fact basically ignored. Frankly, no one cares.

This statue is situated not at a place with any official status--India's World Peace Dome is a misleading description--but at a small college, the MIT World Peace University, Moreover the "MIT" is not the famous Massachusetts research center but the Maharashtra Institute of Technology, which ranks number 116 according to the Indian government.

Thus the statue sits among over 50 other monuments of prophets, scientists, and--literally--"messiahs" in an obscure corner of what would in the US be Fairfield University, the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, or the University of Kansas. The odds that any visitor to that school would even know the name of Joseph Smith are vanishingly small.

The most surprising aspect of this farce is that apostles apparently had nothing better to do with their time than fly to Maharashtra and sit through tedious ceremonial meetings for the sole purpose of justifying the erection of that gold monstrosity. Sure, some Mormons may think the church has achieved something here, but the idol's greatest import lies in the incremental growth it has produced in Todd Christofferson's frequent flyer account.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: November 25, 2022 02:55AM

The church had no choice but to push a statue of brother Joe. But most of could agree that it's not hard to see the church donating a bigger, better statue of Christ.

Maybe next month, the church will donate a statue of Laban in the city of Jerusalem :D

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: November 25, 2022 11:21AM

Buzz Armstrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the obvious attempt to help create a centrally controlled one world religion.

Well, it's not on the scale of the convert-or-die tactics used by Catholicism and Islam.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 04:10PM

When I first read this thread I didn’t pay much attention to the linked article. I focused mainly on the gold statue of Joseph Smith part and I found it amusing, especially in light of the scriptural admonition to avoid idolatry, as I mentioned above. Not that idolatry itself is all that amusing. It was drilled into me as a JW that it is pretty much the height of gross sinfulness.

So now I’ve read the article which describes the ceremony around the statue:

“Elder Christofferson spoke for 15 minutes about the life and teachings of Joseph Smith. One of those key teachings, he said, focuses on friendship.”

My first thought: There are 15 minutes’ worth of talking points about JS’s life and teachings? Second thought: JS was big on friendship? Ask the guys he sent away so he could have their wives.


The article goes on to state: “Friendship is one of the grand fundamental principles of [our faith and doctrine],” Elder Christofferson said, quoting Joseph Smith. “[Friendship will] revolutionize and civilize the world and cause wars and contentions to cease and men to become friends and brothers. Even the wolf and the lamb shall dwell together.”

I haven’t read much about JS promoting friendship. On many occasions his actions would counter that. And JS didn’t originate the thought that the wolf and the lamb shall dwell together – that’s a Bible scripture. The way it’s written in the article, in quotes, makes it seem like Christofferson is giving JS credit for that thought. A small point, perhaps, but it bugs me - trying to make JS out to be a world peacemaker and far more profound than by contemporary accounts and historical study he actually was.


From the article: "The 55 statues at the World Peace Dome — which include the likenesses of Moses, Peter and Aristotle — represent those “who think always [of] the soul and the mind,” Dr. Karad said. “The absolute right path can be shown only through education. What type of education? It has to be a universal, value-based education system.”

Again, I had to laugh. JS is now immortalized alongside Aristotle as some great contributor to humankind? That naked emperor sure gets around. It’s like taking a fairy tale and insisting it’s a real thing. The princess is in the castle. The witch is in her cottage. The three little pigs are busy building their homes.


Article:

“King Husein, chairman and CEO of Span Construction & Engineering, said the Joseph Smith statue was patterned after the one that resides at the Joseph Smith Birthplace memorial in Vermont.

“I am grateful to God for the Prophet Joseph Smith, for his life of sacrifice and for his role in restoring the gospel of Jesus Christ,” said Husein, who helped facilitate the placement of the Joseph Smith statue in the World Peace Dome. “Among many principles that Joseph Smith taught, he also advocated the rights of all human beings, the freedom to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience. … He also encouraged self-reliance and the need to follow the commandment of Jesus Christ to love our neighbor as ourselves.”

His life of sacrifice? He advocated the rights of all human beings?

Wow. The spin is making me dizzy.


“We readily acknowledge [Joseph’s] continuing influence for good in the world, the revelations that he brought forth, his example of service and sacrifice and his devotion to and witness of the living God,” the Apostle said.

I try not to mock or bad-mouth Mormons just because they’re Mormon, especially BICs who have a huge burden to lift in order to figure out how to objectively examine the church and extricate themselves, if they want, from its many tentacles. Each one of us has to go through the general exercise of evaluating what we were taught in childhood and choosing values we want to embrace as adults as well as discarding what doesn’t resonate with it. For people born into closed systems such as Mormonism and similar all-encompassing faiths, it’s a much steeper hill to climb. But. I do not feel bad for being negative about Joseph Smith. What was his “influence for good in the world”? His “example of service and sacrifice?” It’s scary how people can spout such ideas often enough, in enough places that the beliefs and ideas are accepted as fact when they are demonstrably not accurate.


On another note, from the article: “A house of the Lord is being built in Bengaluru.”

This is yet another expensive outward show that Mormonism is a thing - spending astronomical amounts of tithing funds that could do so much real good in the country rather than their choice to erect another white expanse of little intrinsic value.


Lot’s Wife says above: “This statue is situated not at a place with any official status--India's World Peace Dome is a misleading description--but at a small college, the MIT World Peace University, Moreover the "MIT" is not the famous Massachusetts research center but the Maharashtra Institute of Technology, which ranks number 116 according to the Indian government.”

Hahaha – At first I thought wow, it’s at the World Peace Dome, mighty heights for the Mormon Church, but yeah, you have to check out reality – I confess to falling for it at first, thinking that the World Peace Dome was a thing, a big thing, because it sounds like it would be. Bad research effort NG!

LW: “Thus the statue sits among over 50 other monuments of prophets, scientists, and--literally--"messiahs" in an obscure corner of what would in the US be Fairfield University, the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, or the University of Kansas. The odds that any visitor to that school would even know the name of Joseph Smith are vanishingly small.

“The most surprising aspect of this farce is that apostles apparently had nothing better to do with their time than fly to Maharashtra and sit through tedious ceremonial meetings for the sole purpose of justifying the erection of that gold monstrosity. Sure, some Mormons may think the church has achieved something here, but the idol's greatest import lies in the incremental growth it has produced in Todd Christofferson's frequent flyer account.”

I’m torn between laughing and wincing because yeah, if people don’t know, including BICs, repetition of these ideas gives a false impression to outsiders and reinforces the teachings BICs have heard from birth.

“Gold monstrosity”. That about sums it up. To me, the whole thing seems like a fairy tale gone wild. You want to yell “People. It’s only a story! Bears don’t really eat porridge. Wolves don’t talk. And Cinderella doesn’t always make it to the ball.”


So saying all that, I then came across another article about the “gold monstrosity” from LDS Living.

https://www.ldsliving.com/statue-of-joseph-smith-joins-54-other-messiahs-of-peace-in-indias-world-peace-dome/s/11160

“Messiah of Peace”? Gag. Outrageous.

I can never get over the malignancy JS spawned with his doctrine of plural marriage. Ask any “wife” of a plyg how peaceful her life is. How blissful. How fulfilling. How free.

The article states: “A statue of Joseph Smith Jr. was unveiled in the World Peace Dome in Pune, India, on November 22, 2022, joining the bronze statues of 54 other religious leaders, scientists, and philosophers—including Jesus Christ, Gandhi, Aristotle, and Max Planck.”

Including Joseph Smith Jr. in such company as Gandhi and Aristotle would make you gag with laughter if it didn’t just make you gag. And including Jesus Christ in a group of “religious leaders, scientists and philosophers” instead of in his own category, as one would tend to do if their teachings recognized him as the Son of God, is bizarre.


From the article: “The World Peace Dome’s website calls Joseph Smith and the 54 other figures “Messiahs of Peace,” who are honored because of their significant “contribution[s] to the thought of peace, science, and prosperity.” The site says they are “jewels of humanity who have helped create civilization and forward thought as we know it.”

What on earth could possibly be Smith’s contribution to “peace, science and prosperity”? As for him being a “jewel of humanity”, it’s hard to know whether to splutter with laughter or cry in despair for the way in which people can twist the truth so reality is lost in a fairy tale and a dark one at that.


The article continues: “Addressing an audience of 3,000 gathered at the event, Elder Christofferson said, “I am gratified that you would honor us as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as you honor the Prophet Joseph Smith with his statue in this majestic hall built to promote world peace…”

Joseph Smith is to world peace what food storage is to world hunger. Empty. Useless. A world away from reality.


From the Church News: “How did a Joseph Smith statue end up in India?”

https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/11/25/23478102/elder-christofferson-statue-of-joseph-smith-world-peace-dome-india

Good question.

I was going to call the whole Joseph Smith thing a mirage or a hallucination - a mass hallucination, resulting in honouring a charlatan who was without honour himself. But the Mormon phenomenon doesn’t quite fit the literal definitions of either concept. So I’ll settle for an original conspiracy that metastasized widely and grew into the spectacle today of vast white (empty) temples throughout the world and the bronze statue of a man who doesn’t deserve the plaudits he’s receiving. He was not a man of peace or honour. I would even question his personal faith. How much did he believe and how much was for personal gain would be my question.

It wouldn’t even matter except the charade continues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2022 04:18PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 04:59PM

What would Jesus want? Giant statues of his successful followers, of course!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 05:07PM

At the same minor branch of a minor university in an enormous sea of peoples and religions there is also a statue of Albert Einstein.

Which, I believe, is strong evidence that the God Particle truly is divine.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 05:10PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the same minor branch of a minor university in
> an enormous sea of peoples and religions there is
> also a statue of Albert Einstein.
>
> Which, I believe, is strong evidence that the God
> Particle truly is divine.

Laugh of my day. Thank you!

Always tinged with sadness, though, for the futility of so much of it all.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 05:11PM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What would Jesus want? Giant statues of his
> successful followers, of course!

Seems reasonable, dagny!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 06:31PM

Buzz Armstrong said:
>Whatever one thinks of Smith himself, we should be very concerned at the LDS involvement in a project designed to rid us of individual autonomy and free agency at a religious level too.

Snicker. Seriously? That sounds like something Our Favourite Canadian would say.

It sounds more like the Kentucky theme park about Noah's Ark than an about-to-succeed attempt at world domination of all religions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_Encounter

It's Mt Rushmore minus the mountain, which really keeps costs down. A tourist trap, much like having the world's largest concrete buffalo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Largest_Buffalo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carhenge

https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2155



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2022 06:34PM by Brother Of Jerry.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 06:38PM

> Snicker. Seriously? That sounds like something Our
> Favourite Canadian would say.

Yep. Also like maple syrup were the detailed but garbled comments about Ukraine's and Russia's history: redolent of someone having read but fundamentally misunderstood Orwell.

Alas. . .

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Posted by: I ( )
Date: December 03, 2022 08:43PM

The latest erection of Joseph's myth
Correction: advertising propaganda

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Posted by: briantchrist ( )
Date: December 04, 2022 08:50AM

Erected. Haha.

It's symbolic because it's true.

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Posted by: Livid ( )
Date: January 23, 2024 04:02PM

Is it permanent?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 23, 2024 04:36PM

Read the thread.

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Posted by: swallow ( )
Date: January 24, 2024 04:39AM

Livid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it permanent?

More to the point is it still erected?

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