Because Idaho has a high Mormon population 2nd to Utah,it could be easy to assume a person in a high profile case like the recent murders in Moscow involved a Mormon person.

How true is this?I saw a post about this on this board.I wondered if there is any Mormon connection because of that.Are any victims Mormon?

I don't know of any connection to the victims.

Several of us on RfM live in Idaho. The last Idaho murder involving Daybells did involve Mormons.

One thing possibly worth mentioning is that the accused murderer was from over the border in Washington. Idaho gets labeled as a crazy place (rightly so over all), and this event will probably add to the bad reputation. However, in this case, the psycho came from a non-crazy state. It just shows that we never know where or when heartbreaking crimes might happen.

Did they find a set of brass plates in his car?

er …

Isn’t the accused ‘really’ from Pennsylvania?

By Idaho standards, Moscow and the University of Idaho's LDS populations and enrollments are not that particularly high. Certainly nothing like southeastern Idaho towns and colleges. There are only two Young Single Adult wards based out of Moscow, so there you go.

Correction, only one YSA ward in Moscow. The only other YSA ward in the Moscow stake is across the border in Pullman, Washington.

I heard he had a long term connection to Nevada, so it's hard to say where he's really from.

where was he born, how long did he live there?

where did he graduate from high school?

curious, but doubt these are or will be part of the legal case.

Right. I guess maybe Idaho was just a convenient location to act out whatever snapped in his head.

A friend of his from high school said they lived in Pennsylvania during high school. I don't remember where I'd read that he had ties to Nevada, so I don't think that's correct.

Here is some background: https://conandaily.com/2023/01/01/bryan-kohberger-biography-13-things-about-desales-university-alum-born-in-albrightsville-pennsylvania/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2023 12:34PM by devoted.

The suspect did not live in Moscow, ID. He lived in Pullman, WA; a place called Steptoe Village adjacent to the Washington State University campus. It's a large apartment complex, that my daughter and her ex-husband lived in a long, long time ago.

I have lived in Moscow, ID since 1990, when CES transferred me here to teach at the Institute and administer other CES programs in several surrounding stakes.

I left the church in 2002.

Hi Ken. Nothing to do with this case, but your mention of the Institute at the U of I triggered a memory of my college days there in the late 60's. William O. Nelson was the Institute director back then. He went on to be the personal secretary to either president of the church or some other high up general authority. Anyway, my steady boyfriend and I had exchanged class rings from high school. He was helping dig the foundation for a new Institute building there. He was part of an all volunteer (?) group of LDS students digging with shovels (cheapass church that they are). He had put my class ring in his pants pocket, along with a cloth handkerchief. At some time during the day, he took the handkerchief out to wipe his face or blow his nose and surmises that the ring got flung out into the trench and covered up with dirt. Well, he dug in that dirt looking for the ring until well after dark and was devastated that he had lost it. He took me downtown Moscow and had me pick out an engagement ring to replace the lost class ring which is probably still someplace buried on the U of I campus.

I haven't delved too deeply into all the coverage of this, but a couple things intrigue me.


The main one is that the suspect was a first semester PhD student. I would think he'd mostly be adjusting to his program of study, which I presume is fairly rigorous, and his duties as a teaching assistant, not to mention learning his way around the new campus, and Pullman. That's all fairly stressful even for "healthy" students.

Anyway, so what I wonder is how in roughly three months a guy who's in that pressure cooker could possibly get so distracted, entangled and emotionally invested enough with people at a different school to murder them?

I know the U. of Idaho is ten minutes away, but he's not likely to be that distracted so quickly. It boggles my mind that someone who ought to be drinking from the grad school firehose at WSU could get so emotionally entangled with undergrads at the U of Idaho, in less than 3 months.

I don't know that there is any evidence the accused was emotionally invested with any of the victims.

I don't think a first year grad student would be less likely to do something like this than any other student. A crime like this is such a rare event, I don't even know how you would do a statistical comparison.

> I don't think a first year grad student would be
> less likely to do something like this than any
> other student. A crime like this is such a rare
> event, I don't even know how you would do a
> statistical comparison.


Definitely rare. I guess I was just trying to offer up some details about why it wouldn't be typical behavior for a new PhD student, at least based on my own experience. Or for any student, really (as you point out). But, now that I think about it, I'm thinking about well-adjusted people who behave in normal ways (i.e. are not murderers).


> I don't know that there is any evidence the
> accused was emotionally invested with any of the
> victims.


Yes, everything I wrote a couple days ago was conjecture.

Some of the more recent news that has come out could indicate that he was sort of stalking someone in the area, and/or had selected victims. But, again, I don't really "know" much, even at this point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 04:16PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

He's been at the same university since 2018. He'd earned his bachelor's degree as well as a master's at the same university in the same field of study. So he was well settled in enough to search for prey next door.

From an online bio of the accused:
He graduated from DeSales University with a B.A. in 2020 and an M.A. in Criminal Justice in 2022. Nine days prior to his arrest, he had finished his first semester at Pullman, Washington State University, where he had moved to pursue a Ph.D. in the same profession.

Kohberger's undergraduate and masters degrees were done in PA. He started with a two year degree in psychology, which he received from Northampton Community College in 2018.

He then transferred to deSales University, also in Pennsylvania, to finish his BA in criminal justice. He stayed at DeSales and earned his masters in 2022.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/02/everything-revealed-about-bryan-kohberger-suspect-in-the-idaho-college-murders-since-his-arrest/

I think he moved to WA over last summer.





ETA: the new information from BoJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2023 07:15AM by Lot's Wife.

Thanks for the correction BOJ and Lot's Wife. I confused DeSales with U of W.

Edit to add: In that case, I wonder if he felt more free to find prey since he was far from home?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2023 07:26AM by devoted.

Very possibly.

From what I read--including the article I linked--he was overweight for most of his life, bullied, and addicted to heroin. At some recent point he lost a lot of weight, developed extreme dietary habits, overcame the drugs, started boxing, and began bullying and threatening others. He was also incompetent with women, struck many as "creepy," grew sullen and mean, and was normally up much of the night.

If those accounts are right, it wouldn't surprise me if he was stalking people, women, for weeks if not months between his arrival in WA and the date of the murders. Perhaps he had crossed paths with one or more of the victims; perhaps one of them had somehow offended him.

He certainly fits the profile of an incel who targets college women.

This reminds me of the O.J. Simpson case but with a Hyundai instead of a Bronco. Did they ever find the killer of Ron and Nicole?

Probably no connection to Mormonism whatsoever. However, suppose there was some interracial dating going on. According to Brigham Young the killer would have been doing the Lord's work.

Suspect was transported to an airport in Washington, arrived Wednesday evening (could he have then refused extradition??) where Idaho police / sheriffs brought him to the county jail in Idaho.

the plane (news reports)is operated (charter ?) by the state of Pennsylvania.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2023 10:23PM by GNPE.

Southeast Idaho has a high Mormon population. Northern Idaho where the murder happened does not have a high Mormon population. The University of Idaho is a big party school. Mormons tend to avoid it. Northern Idaho is more like Montana or Washington than Utah.

And in any case Kohberger was not from Idaho and had only been in the state a few months when the murders occurred.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 03:03PM by Lot's Wife.

A couple of things struck me while learning details of this case.

It's taken a bit of time to arrest a suspect because of the DNA testing that has taken place.

It's been reported the apartments were party rooms.

I bet there was a whole lot of DNA samples taken, not only blood but other bodily fluids, and its taken a long time to test them all.

Have others that partied in the apartments been investigated and eliminated from suspicion?

A lot of work is needed by a small-town police department, it's no wonder the FBI was involved, they have the resources to support the investigations.

More details, with a link to the probable cause affidavit, making it an official court document.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/roommate-came-face-face-idaho-170503558.html

It appears that the attack was indeed targeted because he left at least one witness alive.

Interesting information. And, like you said, official, so it ought to be credible.

Yeah, pretty damning evidence. The combination of security cameras showing Kohberger's movements in the weeks before the murders, on the night of the murders, and in the following weeks; the cell phone "pings" showing his travels over those periods and the absence of "pings" for the two-hour period in which the crimes occurred; several interactions between him and police in Washington, Idaho, and across the country to Pennsylvania; and the DNA the authorities obtained from the crime scene and from Kohberger's father's trash sum up to an extremely detailed record of what happened.

Besides making me think the state has enough evidence for convictions in court, the affidavit indicates that it must be very difficult to pull off a premeditated murder--as opposed to random homicide--given today's technology. That alone should give potential miscreants pause, meaning among other things that Dave the Atheist is safe.

For now.

Yes! I was actually just typing up a lot of the same. :)

It also said that the suspect's phone had pinged off cell towers near the victims' home, late at night and early morning, on a dozen occasions. So it looks like maybe he was stalking someone, or perhaps getting to know a neighborhood well enough to target victims there.



The linked page/docs also point out that the killer walked right past another roommate on his way out, and left her alone.
If I read it correctly, the article said that would imply that he had specific victims in mind, because he didn't kill the eye-witness (Or, maybe he's just extra bonkers.)

Now that I think about it, when Ted Bundy left the sorority house in Florida, a girl saw him leave, but I don't recall if he saw her.

In other weird "serial killer" parallels, he applied for an internship with the Pullman police department, so he wanted to be in law enforcement, like BTK (who also studied Criminology, IIRC), and the Golden State Killer, who actually did work in law enforcement for a time. FWIW, Bundy was studying law, which can be a form of law enforcement.

I read something yesterday that said there were reports of him being aggressive and verbally abusive with women (e.g. wait staff, IIRC).

Also that investigators were clearly dealing with an organized killer (or something to that effect).

Unfortunately, I didn't save links :(

Not just the Pullman police: he also wanted to be in either the Rangers or Delta Force, I forget which, and he had a USMC knife or at least the sheath at the crime scene. Kohberger definitely wanted authority and the ability to employ violence. As recent events around the country indicate, careers in law enforcement are attractive to some exceptionally cruel and dangerous people.

Kohberger was definitely an "organized" killer. He planned his attack, cased the joint on the night of the attack, wore dark clothing and a balaclava, turned off his cell phone, etc. On the other hand, he was as stupid as he was organized. He left an abundant trail of cellphone, cctv, and DNA data for investigators to pursue.

It's tempting to conclude that the thrill of using a knife, of feeling and seeing the victims die, was so attractive that it blinded him to the risks he was running. To my uneducated mind, the crime seems intensely personal.

Yes, anyone who'd watched two or three episodes of Forensic Files could have made fewer mistakes! Unbelievably dense (fortunately). Ironically, interviews with some of his classmates have said that he always had to be the smartest guy in the room (paraphrasing).

I agree that it seems personal. I tried to sort of say that the other day, but there's not really enough info to draw concrete conclusions.

Anyway, one wonders if perhaps there are other victims...? Or was he caught on his first try? (because I think it's pretty clear that he's a budding serial killer).

As I said above in discussion with "devoted," Kohberger's egocentric rage was apparent years ago. I saw an interview of a profiler yesterday who said that violence or other extreme violations of people's boundaries will almost certainly be found in his past although these may have been his first murders.

Thank God the police rejected him.

> Thank God the police rejected him.

Indeed. The Golden State Killer got on the police force. BTK didn't, but was some sort of dog catcher, or pet enforcement person (IIRC). And hadn't he previously sold alarm systems?

As you pointed out above, this personality type wants power, authority, control. And I think they look for professional avenues to get it. And, of course, ultimately serial killers want more than official/acceptable control. They want the ultimate control over others.

"Thank God the police rejected him."

They could have had a real life Dexter.

Good luck getting into Delta Force. Very elite group and very secretive. They don’t toot their horn like the Navy Seals do. So the guy wanted to be in US Army special forces but uses a US Marine knife. Probably a K-Bar.

You could tell the guy was a whacko just looking at him. Definitely a scrambled person who would crack under all the stress trials you have to go through to even be considered for special operations training.

If you are going to commit a crime don’t bring your smart phone. Don’t leave anything behind and don’t drive your own car.

I'm struggling to understand what on Earth took the roommate(s) so long to call the police. A masked stranger walking through your house in the early morning hours is not normal. If she was afraid, she could have called the police to come check out the house.

I went to a party school, and had a great time there, and I can't imagine *any* scenario where I wouldn't have called the police under these circumstances. This situation isn't adding up at all.

As for Kohberger, you would think that a criminal justice major would have far better control over the forensics.

I think we need to put the witness's behavior into perspective.

How old was she? Twenty? I can empathize with a naive young woman cowering in her bedroom, terrified by what she had seen and trying to persuade herself that she'd heard her friend playing with her dog and all was well.

Could it be that she was paralyzed until the sun came up, perhaps until she had had a chance to talk to her awakening roommate and felt safe enough to venture out into the house to see if her worst fears were justified?

I think there are plausible ways it could have happened. They're college students, so initially I just assumed that they had slept it. Noon wouldn't surprise me a bit. My own girls will sleep that late on a Saturday or Sunday. They were described as being up and/or out until very early in the morning, so sleeping in would almost be expected.

But then I was a little surprised to learn that one roommate had actually seen the guy in the hallway. But what they described over his face sounded a lot like a Covid mask to me (I have several black and colored masks). And, frankly, at what is apparently a party college, who would necessarily be surprised to see a new guy slinking out of the apartment in the middle of the night? Probably not the first time, and even one of the victims was apparently a boyfriend. (after all, apparently they aren't morgbots). Heck, even I slipped out of an apartment or two in the middle of the night when I was in college. It's not necessarily unusual, let alone criminal. And in this era of Covid, even a mask doesn't seem all that weird.

Anyway, I don't describe the above to criticize the roommates' activities or behavior. I just assume they are normal college kids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 05:39PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

Agreed.

Regarding the mask, a COVID mask would make sense except that few people now wear them in public--and that is particularly true of college kids who have been partying. Moreover, few partying college students dress in black, head to toe, as well as a black mask. That image seems frightening, and the police affidavit says the witness was "frozen [in] shock" and "locked herself in her room after seeing the male" intruder. That sounds to me that she was terrified.

But speaking from experience, it's not uncommon for young women to "freeze" in terror rather than thinking logically and calling the police. To me, there was nothing strange in the poor girl's behavior. That's what several of the women did, for example, when Ted Bundy entered the shared apartment in Florida.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 05:45PM by Lot's Wife.

I don't discount the terror aspect at all. When I was younger, I'd occasionally wake up frozen in terror just from a nightmare. Frankly, in about that age range (fortunately, not in a long time). And there have been times as an adult that I've been scared at home. The older/wiser we get, the better we deal with it.

Regarding the all black ensemble, yeah, it's weird. But I know from being in college, and teaching college, that you get the occasional oddball who marches to his own drummer. Or who expresses their individuality by adopting some well-known style: combat boots/all black/goth/etc. So even that wouldn't necessarily raise alarm.

Obviously, I think it should have, but I'm trying to be objective and rationalize or understand ways by which it might not.

I understand what you are saying and doing and our views are not incompatible.

We know the girl was terrified and immediately retreated to her bedroom. It is plausible that she spent the ensuing hours going over things in her mind. Was that the dog she had heard or something else. Was the man an intruder or a welcomed guess? Was his dress sinister or silly?

Was he still there in the hallway or the building? Had he returned? We all know of many cases in which a rapist has warned his victim not to move because he would be right back. Could she have worried that he might hear a call to the police? Would she be in trouble if she phoned the authorities and it turned out that nothing had happened?

I'm sure she doubted her initial impressions and then her secondary impressions. I'm sure she went through all sorts of scenarios in her mind. She is a kid and has almost certainly never experienced anything like that encounter in the hallway before.

True. Adding this:
Maybe she thought she could be in trouble for drinking or pot or breaking some kind of rules. I can see being more afraid of getting in trouble with parents than doing the right thing.

As a former 20-year old, I can attest to the verity of what you write. College kids are stupid. Often they do not even know what the "right thing" is.

I'm glad we all grow so much wiser later in life.

;-)

The sleeping in (that late) seems fairly normal and expected for college kids who stayed up late. But let's say she thought to herself, "It's winter, maybe someone would have a knit facial mask on." Why wouldn't she do a quick survey of the house once he exited? I would. *Or,* I would call the police if the man seemed suspicious.

Also, what's with the Door Dash delivery at 4:00 a.m.? The police are putting the murder at somewhere between 4:00 and 4:25 a.m, which makes sense. But Kernodle took a Door Dash delivery at 4:00 a.m. and was murdered (probably) about five to ten minutes after that. That seems like an awfully tight timeline.

Re. the door dash, I haven't gone back to check the timeline (of phones being offline, car sightings on video, etc), but it's possible that the perp was in the apartment already! That's even scarier.

Here's the link to the probable cause affidavit:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23564630-kohberger-affidavit

There is lots of evidence related to the movement of Kohberger's car, and from pings related to his cell phone. DNA on a knife sheath under one of the murdered girls was linked to his dad's DNA obtained from garbage in Pennsylvania.

It was reported on the evening news that the probable cause affidavit simply has to present enough evidence to justify an arrest. There is likely much, much more evidence that will be disclosed at Kohberger's trial.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 06:37PM by summer.

Yes, I provided a link to that affidavit above. My posts have been based on the information it contains.

It's a chilling read, isn't it? I feel for the young police officer that wrote that. Four years in, and he's surveying the scene of a multiple murder.

It is indeed. The collective needs of people involved will probably be enough to put some psychologists' children through college.

I think both campuses will have marshaled their counseling resources due to this tragedy.

Unless he pleads Guilty, now wait 6 + months for a trial…

I think it's going to be a lot longer than that. The defense will want a very long time to prepare for this case, and will likely get it.

I hope he takes responsibility for his choices - actions.

Don't hold your breath.

I can’t believe the idiot left a knife sheath and used a smart phone in the area of the murder. He’s not a serial murderer and he’s not crazy. He’s a narcissist who go on a sick power trip. Good thing he was stupid and they caught him quick. I would stuff him in a bag and hang him up like a piñata and have a few baseball bats available for the public’s entertainment.

>I would stuff him in a bag and hang him up like a piñata and have a few baseball bats available for the public’s entertainment.

I see. Are there other parts of the Bill of Rights you object to?

The guy was obviously stalking. Three floors, each with 2 br and 1 bath. My bet is that when they compare the phone GPS of the accused with that of each of the victims they will see a pattern.

Here is the floorplan

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/idaho-college-killings/layout-of-house-where-idaho-killings-took-place-explained/

What about California Mormon population # ???

(Referring to first post claim about Utah & Idaho)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2023 01:54PM by GNPE.

Some other odd things:

Apparently both of Kohberger’s sisters are licensed counselors with masters degrees! It’s too bad that they apparently didn’t notice anything wrong.

One of his sisters starred in a slasher movie, 'Two Days Back,’ in which a group of students are stabbed to death by a maniac.