I was a member for years and always felt confised by the topic of masturbation. Are there members who honestly believe their husbands and sons don't masturbate or does everyone deep down know it?

Yes, women totally do this but I mostly heard of the topic in regards to men.

Then they ex'd that therapist for calling masturbation healthy which it IS, and I was like..is she in trouble for talking about it or saying it's healthy? Also, WTH does it have to do with spirituality.

During my years as a convert no one mentioned the topic to me directly but if they had,I'd not have responded favorably.

Yes it was a real thing while in my youth. Guilt was the method used to try and make you not indulge yourself. Then you had to watch films from GA's at the time, who promised you that if you were spiritual enough, then God would give you dreams that would give you relief from your hormones, and they handed out pamphlets as well. Then there was good ole SWK and his Miracle of Forgiveness that made you feel worthless. And those interviews from your leaders trying to get you to confess.

Every single one of us knew the hidden secret, and nobody ever talked about it, but some kid at the beginning of his mission would trek into the Bishops office, or the Mission Presidents office and spill their guts.

The rest of us would think...dumb ass. Or whisper it in the hallway as they left the office with swollen eyes, and all teary.

Maybe out of 1,000 missionaries one or two had godlike restraint, but we all knew the hidden truth, and never brought the subject up.

You are assuming, Out and About, that the church wanted its members to stop engaging in self-pleasure. It does not.

Guilt empowers the church. It binds the members to the organization as the vehicle of forgiveness; it makes them willing to sacrifice their time and their money and their happiness. Condemning natural human behavior is one of the pillars on which the LDS edifice rests.

Nothing, accordingly, has changed. The church may no longer list masturbation as a sin in its public pronouncements and handbooks, but everyone knows the rules--kids are taught as much in seminary and priesthood and the family--and bishops and other authorities need only mention the "law of chastity" to revivify that guilt.

The church won't abandon the wellsprings of its power.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are assuming, Out and About, that the church
> wanted its members to stop engaging in
> self-pleasure. It does not.
>
> Guilt empowers the church. It binds the members
> to the organization as the vehicle of forgiveness;
> it makes them willing to sacrifice their time and
> their money and their happiness. Condemning
> natural human behavior is one of the pillars on
> which the LDS edifice rests.
>
> Nothing, accordingly, has changed. The church may
> no longer list masturbation as a sin in its public
> pronouncements and handbooks, but everyone knows
> the rules--kids are taught as much in seminary and
> priesthood and the family--and bishops and other
> authorities need only mention the "law of
> chastity" to revivify that guilt.
>
> The church won't abandon the wellsprings of its
> power.

Interesting so the church chose something most everyone does, attachef to it guilt and shame, and suses it as yet another means of control. I believe you're correct in your observation. At least, it's the explaination that makes the most sense to me. It always seemed like such a ridiculous assertion, ridiculous and psychologically abusive.

I think the church is being true to its roots. Joseph Smith was a narcissist. The church uses guilt the way a dysfunctional parent uses it, to promote trauma bonding in their children. This Stockholm Syndrome like behavior is how the abuser makes their mark stay. By making them psychologically dependent on them, not by developing characteristics that actually make them likeable.

The gospel will set you free. Don't mind the leg irons.

About fapping itself, you can get too much of a good thing. If you eat too much, you will get fat. The church asks you to starve and confess to eating one little crumb, which results in the sexual equivalent of eating disorders. At best, the church is stupid and ignorant. The banality of evil seems to be the curse of institutions that successfully suppress dissent.

Having said all that, I use chastity as a spiritual practice for my own benefit even though I hate the church.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2023 05:36AM by bradley.

Boyd K. Packer

https://web.archive.org/web/20151021234056/https://www.lds.org/manual/to-young-men-only/to-young-men-only

Or you can watch it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD7mAyAypQo

Mark E Petersen

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/4q446n/here_it_is_the_21point_handout_that_was_given_to/

What's that?

(I’d write more about this but I can’t bc my hands are tied to the bed; draw your own conclusions… )

Just to make things clear here: you're very good at typing ith your toes, GNPE ;-)

Who says he can reach his toes?

I was only asked about masturbation once in the church and that was by a bishop. I was so young I didn’t know what the word meant. When the bishop realized I didn’t know what he was talking about he just said it was when men got excited looking at pornography and went on with the interview.

What’s funny is not too long after a girl came up to me in the grade school playground and asked me if I masturbated. Well thank’s to the bishop I was a bit more knowledgeable on the subject.

It was a big deal for teens.

If you didn't know what it was by age 12 the bishop explained it to you, usually followed by trying it once you got home to figure out what the fuss was.

Then depending on the bishop you might be pressured to admit you did it during one of your quarterly interrogations.

Then when you get older the bishop upgrades you to petting and necking and so forth and never take no for an answer.

By the way...a former bishop who stood up to the church and challenged the process of asking preteens about sex was exed.

If a grown man asked my child if they masturbated I would go ballistic and call him exactly what he is- a pervert.

He'd NEVER be allowed in a room with my child again.

I read about Sam Young. He sounds like a conscientious dad, much more restrained than I would be if someone had sexually harassed my baby girl. I'm infuriated by the mere idea of an adult asking a child..what on earth?!

Unfortunately, this has been church doctrine for over half a century.

Sam Young was exed for embarrassing the church, calling for an end to this practice. He collected over 3000 stories about the harm caused by this.

The church however continues to state the have a need to continue this practice.

"We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard."

Few Bishops or leaders even know Women do this. That is why most of the emphasis is on the guys.

Everyone tosses the custard or flicks the bean. Anyone who says they don’t is a liar. The church trained me to be a top notch liar through years of interrogations and years of pressure to believe in something I always was skeptical of. I have a great poker face. Served me well a few times in the real world.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone tosses the custard or flicks the bean.
> Anyone who says they don’t is a liar.

Not everyone apparently. I was talking with a woman who didn't do so until 21 according to her own account. It depends how big their libido is.

Just wondering how the topic came up in conversation.

Were you standing in line next to each other at CVS?

Did she call the police?

regularly from at least age 12 until I was about 18 and the bishop was changed. I didn't know what it was, but I picked up on the fact it had something to do with "not touching yourself" and I thought that meant for any reason. I didn't know what it really meant until a bishop when I was 25 told me to keep track of my gay boyfriend's masturbation habits as we could cure him if he stopped masturbating. Of course I didn't ask him about his masturbation habits before or after marriage.

It is a sick practice--I mean the fact they talk about sex like they do. It is abusive. I lived so that I would never have to discuss sex with a bishop and then I met my future husband. I got to talk to several leaders about sex that had nothing to do with me doing anything. OH, except it is my fault my husband cheated. It was up to me to keep him satisfied. ha ha ha ha ha ha

"when I was 25 told me to keep track of my gay boyfriend's masturbation habits as we could cure him if he stopped masturbating."

Has Jesus in the Bible ever asked someone to keep track of that? Interesting that the one true church is so interested in it. The longer I am out the stranger the lds church gets and I can't believe that I was ever a TBM. Joseph Smith was allowed to have multiple wives even some married women. That is called adultery doig things with married women Joseph Smith. Nope JS was a prophet of God. But if I "self serve" now that is a sin. Nope the Bible says you shall not commit adultery.

My mission president took pleasure in making both elders and sisters cry while confessing their sins. One sister exited from the office as a total mess. Her makeup and mascara looked like Tammy Faye Bakker. She had been crying during her worthiness interview. Her assigned companion spilled the beans that she had been worried about having wet dreams.

Guilt 24/7 when I was a kid. I got over it.

You really couldn't do it... But you could

TMC makes liars out of it's members... It's automatic!

Just to keep them "straight"°°° and all too narrow

There was a period of time when the church decided that every young person was wanking away. Had the church just asked teens if they were morally chaste (and no more follow up, intrusively detailed questions) then maybe, just maybe this wouldn't have been an issue.

I was asked at age 11 about touching myself. Like so many others, I had no idea what I was being asked. I was accused of enjoying taking a shower then wrongfully accused of sexual deviations. If you denied or said no to harsh and accusatory inquiry, then you were threatened disciplinary action. I was sometimes threatened to have my dad listen to me lying before the lord. It was so unpleasant as the bishop or his counselors would repeat the questions as to catch you in a lie.

Eventually, some bishops backed off or tone down their law of chastity questions. Sadly, I experienced 12 years of these miserable questions; even my mission president believed it was his duty to enforce his "I know you struggle with M-" pseudo-discernment.