My trust in God went down with the innocent people who died on 9-11.
I lost trust in God and I was left with nothing but a smoldering black hole of nothingness,
death,
where my faith once lived and sustained me for most of the prior four decades.

I could not occupy that hopeless state. I was done with 40yrs of Cult brainwashing in an instant, the moment I saw innocent people die at the hands of terrorists on 9-11, in the name of Allah.
That to me was brought to us by belief in God, Allah.
I was done with any and all gods who failed to intervene on 9-11, not to mention Allah.
I became an ex/Muslim and an ex-MORmON on 9-11.
With no alternative.
Nothing.
Except Science,
the one thing that never failed us.
Yet, Now I sit here with a son in the ER.
A son who has a whole litany of disabilities.
And addictions.
Wondering how is science, medicine going to help him?
How am I going to help him?
Feeling completely helpless.
Hopeless.

But I can’t remain here long.

This is no place to be at 27.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2023 11:50AM by schrodingerscat.

> My trust in God went down with
> the innocent people who died on
> 9-11.
>
> I lost trust in God and I was
> left with nothing but a smoldering
> black hole of nothingness, death,
> where my faith once lived and
> sustained me for most of the prior
> four decades.


Holocaust denier??? Or you knew about it and were okay with it...

I don’t know how old you think I am, but I wasn’t around then.
The Holocaust wasn’t caused by belief in God, but by the opposite of belief in God, hate.

Witnessing fellow Americans die due to religion, flipped a switch in me. I no longer wanted anything to do with any religion or tribalism.

WOOOSH!

The point was that your argument against belief works just as well for the Holocaust as well as other historical horrors. Yet you didn't lose faith over those. So why didn't you?

The holocaust happened long before I came along.
It didn't affect me.
9/11 did.

So it's not the deaths that are horrifying and scary about God failure. It's not how many died that is horrifying and scary about Gods failure. It's that it happened within your tribe. It was personal. It was people like you.

And yet you said you were done with tribalism. Yet your departure of faith is all about tribalism when its your tribe that was harmed.

I was born into Plato’s Cave.
The society that fed me and nurtured me was already up and running. The Holocaust was never in my consciousness. I mean, I grew up with hearing stories but never knew if they were true or not. But reading about it is one thing, hearing from a survivor like Ellie Wiesel, describe what it was like to experience the death of God,
That was 9-11 for me,
the death of God
And the beginning of a new search, for comfort on my darkest night.

I’ve had a lot of dark nights since then, but none as dark as 9-11.

NEVER again!

So you are confirming dogblogger's point.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The Holocaust was never in
> my consciousness. I mean, I grew up with hearing
> stories but never knew if they were true or not.

What? How could you doubt? WHY would you doubt the truthfulness? This is gross and exactly how the holocaust deniers try to make their case. How do you feel about the idea of someone in another country thinking 9/11 may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter to them because it didn't happen in their country or their generation?

Seriously, if it doesn’t impact you in your lifetime you can’t recognize the impact. 20 years ago I would have been delighted to introduce you to survivors I knew personally. Parents of my friends who survived the camps and moved to the US. The death toll from 9/11 is a drop in the bucket compared to the Holocaust.

I’m not sure I have adequate words for how obtuse you sound



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2023 06:39PM by shortbobgirl.

I answered your questions but so far, nobody has answered mine.

What do you trust in?

I trust in nature.

So far it created us and kept the forces that created us and the rest of the Cosmos, in perfect balance, enough to sustain life for 4 billion years and counting on this planet alone, that we know of.
We each have to maintain our balance, and live in balance with nature.

That gives me hope life will keep finding this perfect balance on this goldilocks volcano rock sprilling through space time, toward the Great Attractor, will keep on evolving for another 4 billion years or forever
No matter how we choose to end it all.
There are life forms on this planet that have survived the past 5 mass extinctions. We're now in the midst of the Plastic Age and the 6th Mass Extinction, we have caused. The first life forms on this planet, mushrooms, do quite well after radiation, like after Chernobyl. So do virus and waterbears.

And as long as Mushrooms, waterbears and virus survive, there's hope for life continuing to evolve from them.

Over and over again.

As long as the universe spontaneously creates electric buckyballs in space, it tends towards order out of chaos and from order, back to chaos in a never ending, eternal cycle.

That gives me hope, that life will go on, no matter how bad we try to destroy it,

we'll end up just destroying ourselves.

The reason Scientists think we have not been visited by extra-terrestrials is because there's only one planet in the "Goldilocks Zone" where life is most likely, in this solar system and we're on it.
And for a civilization to get to the next stage, Stage 2, they'd have to be inter-stellar and to develop that technology, they'd have to first develop nuclear energy, which is an existential threat we've been sitting on for the past 78yrs, since the last time we dropped a Nuke, to end WWII.
Every day that passed since then, it's been a miracle that nobody, out of all of the genocidal dictators who've possessed nukes, has dropped a nuke on one of their enemies.
And the only thing stopping them is assurance of mutual annihilation.
And that's been the case my whole life.
Sitting on the edge of becoming a stage 2 interstellar civilization, while living with assurance of mutual annihilation, and a lifetime of being faced with the choices between the lesser of two evils.

Mushrooms were not the first lifeform on Earth.

There was one report a several years ago claiming finding a fossil mushroom ~1.2 billion years old, and a report of a "fungus-like" fossil ~2 billion+ years old.

But there are fossil bacteria from Australia ~3.5 billion years old, as well as a claim of 3.7 billion year old stromatolites in Greenland.

The first lifeform on Earth was probably a bacterium or proto-bacterium - most likely a chemoautotrophic one.

But it certainly wasn't a mushroom or any other eukaryotic organism.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I answered your questions but so far, nobody has
> answered mine.

We all know this isn't about discussion with you. It's about applauding your brilliance.

If you cared about what others think, you would not immediately launch into the following:


> I trust in nature.
>
> So far it created us and kept the forces that
> created us and the rest of the Cosmos, in perfect
> balance, enough to sustain life for 4 billion
> years and counting on this planet alone, that we
> know of.
> We each have to maintain our balance, and live in
> balance with nature.
>
> That gives me hope life will keep finding this
> perfect balance on this goldilocks volcano rock
> sprilling through space time, toward the Great
> Attractor, will keep on evolving for another 4
> billion years or forever
> No matter how we choose to end it all.
> There are life forms on this planet that have
> survived the past 5 mass extinctions. We're now in
> the midst of the Plastic Age and the 6th Mass
> Extinction, we have caused. The first life forms
> on this planet, mushrooms, do quite well after
> radiation, like after Chernobyl. So do virus and
> waterbears.
>
> And as long as Mushrooms, waterbears and virus
> survive, there's hope for life continuing to
> evolve from them.
>
> Over and over again.
>
> As long as the universe spontaneously creates
> electric buckyballs in space, it tends towards
> order out of chaos and from order, back to chaos
> in a never ending, eternal cycle.
>
> That gives me hope, that life will go on, no
> matter how bad we try to destroy it,
>
> we'll end up just destroying ourselves.
>
> The reason Scientists think we have not been
> visited by extra-terrestrials is because there's
> only one planet in the "Goldilocks Zone" where
> life is most likely, in this solar system and
> we're on it.
> And for a civilization to get to the next stage,
> Stage 2, they'd have to be inter-stellar and to
> develop that technology, they'd have to first
> develop nuclear energy, which is an existential
> threat we've been sitting on for the past 78yrs,
> since the last time we dropped a Nuke, to end
> WWII.
> Every day that passed since then, it's been a
> miracle that nobody, out of all of the genocidal
> dictators who've possessed nukes, has dropped a
> nuke on one of their enemies.
> And the only thing stopping them is assurance of
> mutual annihilation.
> And that's been the case my whole life.
> Sitting on the edge of becoming a stage 2
> interstellar civilization, while living with
> assurance of mutual annihilation, and a lifetime
> of being faced with the choices between the lesser
> of two evils.

There's no point in answering your questions. You'll blather on imperviously.

All gods are equally real. Which one should I trust ?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All gods are equally real. Which one should I
> trust ?

Ask the people who decided our country’s official motto should be ‘In God We Trust’ instead of ‘E Pluribus Unum’ (Out of many, one) 67yrs ago. I preferred the original motto, but that all changed long before I got here. I think it means we’re scared shitless of becoming pinko commies, so the opposite of that is a God fearing society, let’s aspire to be that instead of genocidal communist tyrants.

I disagree that we will all turn into genocidal maniacs in the absence of believing in god. Look at the countries that are far more secular than the US, like Japan or Australia or Northern Europe, they don’t have mass murders every day of the week, we do!

SC, I'm so sorry that your son is ailing. I can't imagine sitting in an ER for something serious for a loved child. I understand your anguish. I hope that there is a good outcome for your son, or at least one that solves the most immediate problems.

Thanks, summer. I missed that.

SC, I too am sorry to hear about your son. Be kind to yourself. You must be worried and feeling hopeless. I can understand why. I hope your son is doing better today. Maybe more professional help for him is out there. I hope things improve.

Thanks Summer.
It's been an ongoing battle for years.
He got dealt a bad hand, physically, he's disabled, but he doesn't take very good care of himself either.

you wouldn't know it by looking at him. He's tall dark and handsome, but ends up in the hospital once a month or so on a regular basis. But, it could be worse and hopefully he gets better. He's out of the hospital, but still having seizures.

Hang in there SC. I feel your hopelessness and want to scream at the cosmos sometimes for not being just.

I hope your son's issues abate and that you and yours are at peace and happy again soon.


HH =)

Just is = Justice?

Trust in the power of love. But dial down the whole concept of trust, and dial up the concept of service to others.

It will work out just fine.

and I'm so very sorry for where you are. Keep trying to get him any help you can.

My son is 37 and he was just in the ER a month ago and in the BHU for 12 days, in the hospital last April for a week. He has been on hard drugs, he was diagnosed with schizophrenia this last time.

Who do I trust in? I do believe in an afterlife and my parents are there. I believe they are watching out for myself and my children and my siblings and their children. I have to lean on those who are still here like my youngest brother who I am really close to, my older sister who tries to help my son, even my sister-in-law whose child also suffers from mental health issues (my son also had meningitis last April).

It is gut wrenching to go through these things. I hope you have family and friends who are there for you. I never realized being a parent would be as difficult as it is. I have a better idea now of what my own parents went through.

Please keep us updated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2023 09:50PM by cl2.

Dear SC, my trust is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture says that we don’t know for what ought we pray, but that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us to the Father with groanings too deep for words. I’m lifting you and your son up in prayer. May He comfort you and help your son in his time if need.

What do you mean by "trust"?

Do you mean, "What can I count on to fix my situation?" In that case, you must trust in what you know. That we are fallible and do the best we can. And when we know better, we do better. And sometimes in spite of our best efforts, we fail.

Trust in the doctors, their training, their insight,
and their efforts to do the best they can.

Trust that you will be able to stand by your son and do for him to the best of your ability.

But know that there is no magic "Belief" bullet that you can all upon and enlist to help.

I hope for the best outcome for your son. And I wish peace for you. ("Hope" and "wish" are different from trust.)

"Gravity been berry berry gud to me!"

I trust my dog.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I trust my dog.


Yes! Love that!
Loved it since Ricky Gervaise used it on Colbert.

Dogs don’t care if you love them back, they just love you anyways. They don’t threaten to send you to live in hell!
That’s why they are our best friends. His GF got him an epilepsy dog and they’re training it to alert him prior to his hitting his head again, when he goes into seizures. He falls like a cedar tree.
He loves that little dog and it loves him right back.

What's the difference?

Difference between what?

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Difference between what?

Between the questions, "IF you don't believe in God..." and "WHAT do you believe in?".

I know it's kinda deep, but I like it that way.
I can dive deeper, and wider, from a higher wire .

The question didn't pertain to me and so I asked (you), what is the difference [to you]?

It's as if you infer that by changing "God" to something else, it would make a difference.

It doesn't matter what you call it, it's all the same to me.

The question was redundant because I know it doesn't matter what you trust in.

It cannot be explained by concepts alone.
Except nature. That, I can trust in.

A bumper sticker from a radio station says it all: "Never Trust Nobody"

In God we trust is just code for faith. I am past faith and apparently feeling.

Give me evidence.

Trust is what you do when you don't have sufficient information to act with surety. Like Faith, it is a control tactic when it comes to God and religion.

I do the best I can with whatever knowledge I can glean and process. Screw trust and faith. The point is to get past them.

I'm not sure I trust nature as SC seems to imply sometimes. Nature can nurture and be beautiful, but half the time it's doing something to kill you.

One day you're praying and thinking all is right in the world, then the next day a volcano wipes you out. I've been lucky so far but I don't trust in luck or much of anything. I hope for good things but hope is not trust. Faith is impotent, IMO.

I trust myself and a few other people. The list is very short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3alExVRIyKU


Everything seems to be, as it is meant to be
All of us in the ground , as reason just fades away
I'll never be wrong again, I'll never be rich or poor
Couldn't we talk again , well couldn't we just pretend

The shadows on the wall are nearly half way there
Tomorrows seldom just another day
You say if you leave me all alone
I wouldn't find words to say

Reality strikes again, teaches all we know
Science is never wrong, well gravity never failed
America seems to care, well somebody has to know
Couldn't we talk again , well couldn't we just pretend

The shadows on the wall are nearly half way there
Tomorrows seldom just another day
You say if you leave me all alone
I wouldn't find words to say

I like George Carlins' response. I trust Joe Pesci. First, I think he's a good actor. Second, he's the kind of guy who can get shit done. Joe Pesci isn't taking any shit from anyone. I trust Joe Pesci.


HH =)

microwave ovens