Or did you learn the truth?

I learned the truth.

I spent so many years hating myself because I never got that confirmation of the Spirit. I got warm feelings, but even at a young age I realized that feelings weren't enough. I demanded visitations from angels. You know like they said we could all have. And I inferred that all those people with strong testimonies had seen at least one angel in their lives. Eventually I realized that the problem was them, not me.

This is similar to my experience.

It's hard to overstate the despair I felt being raised and surrounded by people who "knew" the "truth" and lived by beliefs that were so confusing and nonsensical to me. That the problem was mine was so very clear. The feelings of failure were profound, leading to a near-complete destruction of my self-worth.

It was such a relief when I finally learned to trust myself and my mind over my parents and other fake church "authorities" and the dogshit they were peddling.

It took way too long, but at least I got here.

I dealt with church leaders over the gay issue. (My boyfriend was gay.) I even wrote to Packer and the letter I received in return was absolutely horrible. I burned it. For one, it told me what a horrible person I was to take up his time and I didn't want anyone to see it. I knew I wasn't a horrible person no matter what he said. My sister and BIL are the only other two who read it. They agreed with me.

They put me through a hell I can't even explain and told me to get married to him and not to worry. Everything would be okay. When he cheated on me, I was told it was my fault for not keeping him sexually satisfied. I wonder how a woman keeps a gay man satisfied. It was one of the gays who used to post here who told me it was ridiculous--if not a few of the gays. I can't think of their names now. I had been dealing with that for years when I was able to talk to them.

I saw the ugly underbelly of the church. They also told me to see if we could get him turned on and they said we could do anything except intercourse. I wasn't that kind of girl and it didn't matter how many times I said I couldn't do it, they told me this was how we had to do it.

It is still my fault some 40 years later that he isn't straight/saved. I know it isn't. What they did to him, myself, and our two kids was unforgivable. How could I ever believe in a religion like this one?

Moroni broke his promise to me. I never had a spiritual experience. I did it on faith.

So I didn't lose my testimony. I never had one to the standards the church claims. But I don't think that having one would have stopped my exit.

False Hopes built on False Promises

I didn't lose my testimony. I know right where I left it. On the floor of an apartment in Provo when my gut told me SWK was a poisonous snake.

I found the facts many years later but didn't really need them anymore though I found them comforting. After all the years of claiming "I Knew"--I finally actually did.

Once you serve a mission, serve in a bishopric, or suffer through endless hours of ward council then you will see the underbelly of a horrible organization that only serves itself.

Not hard to leave and nobody cares why you left.

The straw that broke this camels' back was reading "Blood of the Prophets".

It just faded away like a shadow being replaced by sun shining into a window.

No! I GAINED a testimony: that the Mormon church was not true.

In the spirit of truth and knowledge, I bear my personal testimony to all. I know, as well as anyone can know anything, that the Mormon church is not what it claims to be; that it was not established by divine guidance; that it is not directed by divinely inspired leaders; that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, but rather a swindler, a liar, a megalomaniac, and a lecher, who abused the power he had for his own selfish ends; and the church that he established has caused an untold amount of human suffering and sorrow, far outweighing any good that its followers claim it may have done. And I bear this testimony fully aware of the consequences to me and to others if my testimony is not accurate.

And, in the custom of religious testimonies, I will say that this knowledge has brought me peace and happiness, and has enriched my life in ways too many to count.

See http://packham.n4m.org/testimony.htm

Amen Brother Packham and thank you for assisting me in my journey out.

I had a testimony of the church based/built on the testimonies of people who were near and dear to me.  I don't doubt that they KNEW the church was true.  And because of their wonderful character, that was good enough for me.

It also didn't hurt that back in the 1950s and early 1960s, there was nothing in man's science, at least to my knowledge, that made any mormonism's basic premises 'wrong.'

But I do have a brain, and books had been read, etc.  And then I went to the temple, and what little knowledge and intellect I possessed told me that the temple ceremony was a bunch of made-up bullcrap.  

And seeing the looks on the faces of the people who had gone with me...their total joy that I had now joined with them in the glad tidings and blessings (and obeisance required to hold on to the blessings) told me that they were in just as much error as all the other not-mormon religionists whom they held in disdain because they were not mormon, and thus WRONG.

So it was relatively easy for me to determine, as if I were solving an equation, at least to my satisfaction, that life has no ethereal and eternal purpose, which apparently is something humans are easily trained NOT to accept.  

There are things you can propose to do with your life, but I simply cannot agree with the concept that we will be 'graded,' much less 'rewarded,' by a ghawd or ghawds.

So from that temple trip day forward, I've tried to enjoy myself and cause as little damage as possible.  I've helped my fellow man when moved by the spirit to do so (such a cop-out!), and I'll continue to do so as circumstances allow.

I have a theory that body chemistry, and such, has a lot to do with one's personality and one's "needs" such that people can end up, almost as if they weren't in control, doing (or not doing) things that hugely impact their lives in mostly negative ways, mostly regarding how they treat others...  Most of us can barely control ourselves, yet I see so much effort put into controlling others.  

I remain a steadfast believer that while I can't force people regarding how to live their lives, I do have the right (and power, obviously) to assert a belief that something they are doing is wrong, misguided, dumb, goofy, hilarious, etc.

Further deponent sayeth not, except to mention that the Second Annoying all by itself says all you need to know about mormonism.

I don't think I ever had one.

I never bore my testimony, including the rote ones for kids.

I think as a child I simply accepted my parents word that everything about Mormonism was true. Then I gradually drifted away.

This is it. I remember distinctly as a young child I was holding my mother's hand on the way to Sunday School up the lane and she told me that we belonged to the only true church and I was like how lucky are we. The only ones not fooled!

I didn't drift away like you. Mine was more of a sledge hammer style realization. Testimony smashed to bigs in one nano-second.

I woke up from the delusional group think I was born into, to reality.
I became capable of independent reason, and the reality that there's no God coming to save us from ourselves.

I don't know. They seem synonymous to me. Just viewed from the perspective of BEFORE and AFTER. If you had asked me a moment before I read the Gospel Topics Essays if I wanted to lose my testimony of the church, I would have told you "no." I did want the truth though. I didn't know what I wanted, if that makes sense. I didn't know what having the truth meant or what it would do.

I think of "losing" my testimony as framed as involuntary. It was, it was against my will. The way that thoughts happen and cascade over each other. The way you cannot go back to not seeing something once it is pointed out to you. You can't go back to the bliss of before you knew. In that way, my testimony was lost. During those first few days and weeks of research, I was very upset what was happening to my belief. But as soon as I found those Essays admitting to so much "anti-Mormon propaganda" I couldn't look away.

I don't regret it one bit but occasionally, I revisit the room where pre-truth blackcoatsdaughter was and I watch her go through it again. And I wish she hadn't been alone as that agony ripped through everything she knew.

I told myself "But there were a bunch of witnesses that never denied seeing the gold plates, so it HAS to be true!"

I told myself that for way too long.

Never had one. Heard my mom bear hers in F&T after she got baptized....it was embarrassing. I couldn't figure out why all the tears and blubbering away....still can't.

A testimony is emotional based. Since all who are born experience the emotional roller coaster rides as teens and young adults, then we all in some way or another encounter something either negative or positive when it comes to religious affliation.

I only had one experience even close to the burning in the bosom while on the plane descending towards the airport where I was to disembark for my mission. I have never felt that ever again.

But there are a couple of other times in my life that I sensed\experienced something, but as the years have passed and I have thought upon those rare moments. I have determined that it had nothing to do with religion, it had to do with me.

So I lost my slim margin of testimony I had of religion, and I gained a testimony of me and my value to whatever there may be\or not beyond this existence.

I told my wife recently I have never felt comfortable in a ward building, church meeting, the Temple, etc. I have not committed deadly sins. That would be the first thing a minister or elders quorum president, or bishop would tell me. I am committing sin. I probably never had a testimony. There was no epiphany, no gradual realization of "the truth". I was caught up in the tide of late teen, early 20s, self importance. Go on a mission. Get married. All that. It has been drudgery. Callings I hated. Being told I needed to be there by then, zealousity. Watching some poor upper middle aged fellow with family and responsibility spending his time at a part time job with no pay. Researching church history for a thesis and reading journals about missions separating families for years. Brigham Young, the Bully of the Mountain West. My grandmother begged me not to go on a mission. She died while I was away. The last time I saw her was leaving to board the plane. She was so proud she had not cried, yet. I carry a lot of guilt and regret for that. She was funnier than Hell. In a home where a parent would look at me and tell me they hated, my grandparents were my heroes and examples. So, I guess, after all of that, no, I do not think I have ever really believed.

To be honest, I never had one. I just got caught up in the wave.

Bingo. I was just going along with it because it's what was expected.

Truth killed my testimony so I mutilated it and buried it.

My Karma ran over my Dogma.

There is no such thing. More like a feeling/ expression of thoughts/ wishes/ beliefs/ hunches/ superstitions...

I wasn't looking!
It wasn't lost.
It didn't exist!
Never found one either.

° I didn't make it up to begin with °

If by ‘testimony’ you mean the thought arresting cliches that kept me mentally enslaved in the the tribal mentality I inherited, then yes, I lost that, thankfully, when I determined to follow the evidence where it led, to the most logical conclusion, it’s a fraud.

Was this before or after the whole scoutmaster deal?

The “Known” pedophile our Bishop put in charge of our scout troop growing up, fills four pages of case law, here.

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6/60/INSTANCES_OF_CHILD_SEXUAL_ABUSE_ALLEGEDLY_PERPETRATED_BY_MEMBERS_OF_THE_CHURCH_OF_JESUS_CHRIST_OF_LATTER-DAY_SAINTS-2017-06.pdf

One page full of child rapes, for every year our Bishop put a ‘KNOWN’ (only to church leaders and his silenced victims).

I found out about it about the same time I found out About my son’s mentally disabled childhood friend being raped against his will by an older scout in the ward. I heard about it directly from witnesses. It happened at scout overnights, which was a monthly occurrence. When I found out about it I reported it to the entire Bishopric, who pretended they knew nothing about it. One of them was my personal Dr. Our Bishop was my wife’s OBGYN.
I went and spoke to the parents who were friends of mine. They were aware of the abuse and had reported it to the Bishop, who did nothing to prevent it from happening again.
They said that’s why their son was not doing scouts anymore. But the rapist was still active in scouts, with my sons, at scout camp, with my much younger sons and 16 other potential victims.
I found out, while I was the only parent or scout leader, alone to babysit 16 scouts at scout camp, uninformed one of them was raping kids in this scout troup.
They didn’t want me to say anything about it.
The GD Bishop lied to me!
And I told him he lied, to his face. I told him if it was me I’d be suing the church, the BSA and him personally!
But it wasn’t up to me because nobody cares if it’s hearsay.
Not the cops, not CPS, not my family, NOBODY wants to hear about it. They want me to just STFU about it.
But as long as victims I know and love, are still being silenced, still living in fear of MORmONs, who see now evil, hear no evil and speak no evil (enable abuse) I’m going to except use my freedom to speak up against this abusive CULT, until it’s reduced to rubble.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2023 12:57PM by schrodingerscat.

Never had a testimony, so hard to lose something you never had. I wanted the church to be true, and I liked the church. But I never in good faith say that I knew it to be true. So I don't think I ever really had a testimony. I think for me I would say that I lost the hope that the church was true.