Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 05:55PM

I was reading a Russell Nelson quote over on r/exmo --

"Love songs perpetuate a false hope that love is all you need if you want to be together forever." [General Conference, April 2019.]

Having been raised in mainstream Christianity, I would say that for the mainstream Christians, "love is all you need" pretty much sums it up. After you die, you will be reunited with your loved ones, both family and friends (and many Christians believe informally that pets are included as well.) Love is the tie that binds.

The first person to mention Celestial Marriage was not Joseph Smith, but instead, Emanual Swedenborg. From Wiki --

"A concept of celestial marriage was described by Emanuel Swedenborg as early as 1749. Swedenborg's Latin term conjugium coeleste was translated as "celestial marriage" by John Clowes in 1782. Two more recent translators have preferred the term "heavenly marriage."[15][16] In all his authoritative writing,[17] Swedenborg only mentions the term celestial marriage twice.[18][19] Swedenborg defined the celestial marriage or heavenly marriage as the marriage of love with wisdom or of goodness with truth. He wrote, "Truth and good joined together is what is called the celestial marriage, which constitutes heaven itself with a person."[20] Swedenborg does not use "celestial marriage" to refer to the marriage of husband and wife, although he says that the marriage of husband and wife has its origin in the heavenly or celestial marriage of goodness and truth.[21]

According to Swedenborg, true married love forms an eternal bond, an actual joining together of minds, so that married partners who truly love each other are not separated by death but continue to be married to eternity.[22] He writes that this love is "celestial, spiritual, holy pure and clean above every love which exists from the Lord with angels of heaven and people in the church."[23] None can come into this love, he says, but those who are monogamous and "who go to the Lord and love the truths of the church and do the good things it teaches."[24]

Craig Miller has investigated the possibility that Swedenborg influenced Joseph Smith, as there are similarities between some of their teachings. He concludes that Smith may have learned something about Swedenborg through third parties, but was unlikely to have read much if any of Swedenborg's works for himself. Among Smith's connections was Sarah M. Cleveland, who was married to a Swedenborgian at the time of her plural marriage to Smith in 1842.[25][self-published source?] It was shortly afterwards, in July 1843, that Smith recorded receiving a revelation regarding eternal marriage in Doctrine and Covenants 132.[4]"

I'm not one to believe in coincidence. Joseph, the great borrower, surely lifted the concept of Celestial Marriage from Swedenborg. However, I would say that Swedenborg's conceptions about Celestial Marriage were firmly rooted in mainstream Christan thought. You would be reunited with your loved ones.

The entire justification for Mormon's somewhat unique belief in this matter is based on, "Joseph said so." But as an outsider reading D&C 132, what leaps out at me is *not* being married to your loved one forever. What stands out instead is Joseph's believe that men could become gods, and that church members could attain all blessings if they could avoid murdering one another. He mentions this several times, and seems consumed with members of his church avoiding the ultimate sin. Paranoid much?

And then there is the whole matter of whether or not one must be polygamously married to attain all blessings.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 06:01PM

JoJu monetized it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: madeguy ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 09:39PM

Well, Joseph Smith took ideas from everyone, the Masons, Ethan Smith, Swedenborg. Even the idea that Nephites and Lamanites were from Jerusalem. It has been proven by genetics that native Americans are from Asia. Read Simon Sotherton's book.

Just let go of your questions about Mormon doctrine, whether it be celestial marriage, polygamy, priesthood, coffee, personal revelation, the holy ghost, the celestial kingdom, whatever. It was all concocted, every bit of it.

I think everyone parts at death. Perhaps we come back again until we reach some kind of perfection. But we don't continue 'with' someone.

Everything we perceive is a projection of our own subconscious mind. Everything you perceive is you, including the person you were with.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2023 09:55PM

You know what, Summer, you should send in a Resignation Letter!  Couldn't hurt, right?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 08, 2023 12:56AM

Well, EOD, I've been contemplating that for a very long time. A part of me is reluctant to give up my eternal blessings. But another part of me relishes the fact that I would be creating a paperwork nightmare.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 08, 2023 02:05AM

> . . . part of me relishes
> the fact that I would be creating a paperwork
> nightmare.

Now THAT's funny.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: April 09, 2023 11:39AM

summer Wrote:
> Well, EOD, I've been contemplating that for a very
> long time. A part of me is reluctant to give up my
> eternal blessings. But another part of me relishes
> the fact that I would be creating a paperwork
> nightmare.

Oh that would be too funny. Resign and say you were part of the XY ward. The XY bishop will not be able to locate your paperwork. What will the church office do next with a resignation letter from someone who was never baptized? Will they send the missionaries to your house? No the elders Quorum president? Hahaha maybe Relief Society president will show up at your door? No the ward Clark might look for your tithing record? Oh Summer just thinking about it makes my day. Let's reactivate summer. I am sure they can find you a calling.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 09, 2023 04:20PM

Love songs cut out the middleman. The church doesn't like that.

But eternal progression has rules. You want eternal progression, don't you? Made up rules for made up concepts should be taken seriously. Otherwise they will have to make up something else.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2023 04:26PM by bradley.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: April 10, 2023 05:48PM

I never figured I had any eternal blessings to lose...and when I married the supposed celestial part never played into my decision to marry the love of my life, a Catholic divorcee.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **   ******    **     **  **     **  **     ** 
 **   **   **    **   **     **  ***   ***   **   **  
 **  **    **         **     **  **** ****    ** **   
 *****     **   ****  *********  ** *** **     ***    
 **  **    **    **   **     **  **     **    ** **   
 **   **   **    **   **     **  **     **   **   **  
 **    **   ******    **     **  **     **  **     **