We live in North Idaho and we had a couple of Jehovah's Witness at our door yesterday an we ended up talking to them for at least 40 min.

Once I got started talking about my experiences with Mormonism I could see that they were interested, however they kept quoting bible verses that seemed irrelevant. When I asked about their hierarchy they claimed that they had no paid clergy. I responded, "Really, neither do Mormons!" That seemed to irk them a bit. The comparisons kept creeping up and I found it remarkable that I could draw many similarities between the two cults. (I never used the "C" word around them.) I just wanted to see how they viewed things. There are supposed to be a ton of mormons around my area but the JW's didn't seem to come across that many. They also said that they felt the people they met in our area are more and more secular. That was good to hear. I really know very little about the JW's but I am aware they are also a cult with a lot of resources, probably in the billion-dollar range.

We spent the majority of the time sharing experiences and I told them about my mission to the Philippines and my experiences in Temple Square. They kept wanting to read the bible with me but I was able to somehow channel my teenage self and finish quoting the bible verses for them, but in the KJV. It seemed to dawn on them that I was well aware of what the bible has to offer.

Afterword my wife and I seemed pretty upbeat about the whole thing. I suppose it is unhealthy trying to change someone the moment you meet but it was interesting to see the similarities. I wonder if they will come back?

Of course, they will note that you were friendly enough to chat with them. I think they will return.

They once wrote me a letter prefaced on my "interest." I had exchanged some pleasantries with them at the door because they'd changed there opening salvos, and I didn't realize immediately that they were JWs. Then I suspected it, and asked them directly. When the said yes, I shut the door. Apparently shutting the door without slamming it is "interest." *eyeroll*

Had them by recently too. Fist time in many years.

The JW’s have been losing members during lockdown like the Mormons but more recently, as some of you may know, an old senior member of the ‘Governing Body’ Anthony Morris has been removed. This is a rare occurence and hadn’t happened for more than 40 years. I suppose this would be equivalent to an apostle in the LDS.

UK.OK Wrote:
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> ... an old senior member of the
> ‘Governing Body’ Anthony Morris has been
> removed. This is a rare occurence and hadn’t
> happened for more than 40 years. I suppose this
> would be equivalent to an apostle in the LDS.

I note their announcement still calls him 'brother' so that must mean he's not disfellowshipped (ex'd).

Maybe it's just a reassignment, although rare? Or age-related or family issues.

I read something I was surprised about - apparently the Governing Body guys can get kicked off/out for a transgression by someone who lives in their home. Kind of a casualty of someone's else's deeds. I wasn't aware of this and would need to confirm before I accepted that it's true. Seems harsh. Even for JWs.

Someone on another forum stated that he is an alcoholic - again, no proof. I only mention this because it illustrates a major difference between JWs and Mormons, even though they have many similarities, at least in my experience. JWs don't forbid alcohol (thank God - seriously)! If a Mormon leader were to drink alcohol, that is such a major transgression their feet wouldn't touch the floor as they were kicked out toute de suite, I'd imagine. So this guy wouldn't have got the boot due to alcohol. Maybe due to addiction, however. I guess more info may be forthcoming. However, it's JWs, so who knows. Secret is their middle name.

Jehovah's Secret Witnesses. Well, except for the part where they come to your door, usually right in the middle of your meal. Maybe it's more like JW's Secret Governing Body. Yeah. That's it.

It was excruciating for me as a shy young new JW to knock on people's doors and not leave when people asked us to because yeah the JWs I was with never took No for a definite response. They never got how annoying that was for people we were interrupting by coming to their homes uninvited. It's like if you don't want snails for dinner and your partner insists you'll love them if you just try them. Blech. NO thanks. I know what I want. I know what I like. I know myself better than you do. Don't ask me again.

Yeah, there's a number of rumors swirling around him. The interesting thing is that two of his sons are apparently in trouble as well for not reporting his issues to church authorities. I'm not sure that I see the Mormons holding children accountable for their parent's misdeeds. Or, "misdeeds."

summer Wrote:
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> Yeah, there's a number of rumors swirling around
> him. The interesting thing is that two of his sons
> are apparently in trouble as well for not
> reporting his issues to church authorities. I'm
> not sure that I see the Mormons holding children
> accountable for their parent's misdeeds. Or,
> "misdeeds."

From another report I read:

"They also alleged that Morris III’s two sons are also being investigated for allegedly covering his addiction issues."

As a JW I wasn't aware of this either - that parents can be held responsible for an offspring's behaviour that doesn't measure up to the organization's standards and now from these comments (from more than one source) that the sons could be in hot water because of failure to report on their father's issues. Can you imagine being part of a religion that demands its followers rat each other out? Very unpleasant.

The JW organization thinks it has the literal God-given duty to hand out punishment when someone steps over the line. And they (usually) make it public, reading out an announcement at meetings. The reason for that, besides punishment for the person who's being D'd, is that from then on nobody is allowed to speak to them or have any interactions with them. Absolutely excruciating.

I've mentioned here before about the father of some JW young women in the congregation I attended who was shunned because he wouldn't get baptized, although he'd come to meetings sometimes. He always seemed so pleasant to me, but so very sad looking. He died by suicide. That too is considered a major sin. It was appallingly cruel. It stands out as one of the major memories in my head about my few years as a JW. I can't be sure that the JW thing was the major cause of his choice but it surely must have been one influence. Because to them, not joining is as bad a sin as many other major sins. You have heard "The Truth" and have shunned it. You deserve death, at least in the hereafter. In this life you just deserve to be shunned.

Horrible.

I have more leftover trauma/bad memories/negative feelings from my time as a JW, by far, than from my brief interlude with the Mormons. Both are similar to each other in quite a few ways but the JWs are far more strict. So imagine that.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm
> not sure that I see the Mormons holding children
> accountable for their parent's misdeeds. Or,
> "misdeeds."

Not exactly accountable for the parent's "misdeeds" but accountable for not reporting him.

Yeah - colour me surprised too. Never heard that one before. Or else I've forgotten it.

Imagine being involved with a church that tries to control your entire life, including your actions and thoughts. For instance, JWs strongly discourage (understatement) "advanced education", which is why I decided not to follow through with my plans to become a nurse. Fortunately, I got out of their clutches and did end up going back to school and became an RN, which is what I had always wanted.

I know it's easy for exmos to imagine that depth of involvement because the Mormon Church "expects" its young men to "serve" as missionaries, taking two years out of their lives and plans and time. (The expectation isn't as strong, if at all, for young women although I know there are increasing numbers of female mishies now).

With regular churches, you can just go on Sunday, if you feel like it, and sit in the pew, enjoy the music, hopefully hear something inspiring from the pulpit and then go home for roast beef dinner or whatever you choose. They don't claim ownership of your entire life. In my experience anyway.

Which is, obviously, far preferable to the alternative.

I had a JW student a number of years ago, who was very bright, and who wanted to become a physician. I encouraged him in this ambition, while being fully aware that his church would at some point likely crush his dream.

Oh yes, very likely summer. You have, though, obviously positively influenced your students through the years. You have been a very dedicated teacher and they've been fortunate to have you.

That's another thing - JWs even control your language choices - I still rarely say "lucky" but always default to "fortunate" because in JW World, "lucky" is considered superstition - not allowed. Some frown on "fortunate" too as being a synonym for lucky. You should also avoid wishing people good luck. Because luck is superstitious which is of course bad.

How many years until it's expunged from memory I wonder. Talk about programming.

Wow. Do they say, "blessed"?

summer Wrote:
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> Wow. Do they say, "blessed"?

Yes. But only in the approved ways. The "bless you" response to a sneeze has "pagan origins" so is strictly forbidden. There are a lot of things JW leaders consider to be pagan. From the way they say and use the word and make it the reason/excuse for what is or is not allowed, including in speech, it makes paganism out to be as evil as it could possibly get. The very word ended up scaring me because of the way in which they say it and how often they use it to describe something as being beyond wicked.


As for using "blessed/bless-ed" in describing things they consider holy, therefore, good, the WT Organization states:

Blessed: "A making or pronouncing holy; a request of God for the bestowal of divine favor; bestowing goodness; favor; extolling as holy; glorifying; speaking well of; protecting or guarding from evil; bringing happiness."

"The Scriptures use “bless” and “blessing” in at least four principal aspects: (1) Jehovah blessing humans; (2) humans blessing Jehovah; (3) humans blessing Christ; (4) humans blessing other humans."

So you can bless other humans but only in a strict JW-religion sense, certainly not because they sneeze. :)

I'd describe it as being more literal to them.

I don't know exactly what they might mean by saying "humans blessing Christ".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2023 08:09PM by Nightingale.

Just a couple thoughts after reading all the way through:

IIRC from Sunday school, leaders getting the boot because of their children's "bad" behavior comes from the Bible verses about "requirements for leaders": that they must manage their household well and their children must be submissive and faithful, or words to that effect. Many fundamental churches adhere to these rules too (i.e. not just JWs).

In fact, this was an issue for Billy Graham, because his son was reputed to be rebellious. And when I say for Billy Graham, I mean it in two ways: from his ultra fundamental detractors, but also, to his credit, he wrestled with it himself (practice what you preach, right?) But, as with all double standards, his handlers rationalized away that he wasn't really part of the household, or was an adult on his own, yada yada yada.

The other thought is, yeah, creepy to expect kids to rat out their parents, or vice versa.


And a memory: a good friend of mine married a girl who grew up in an ultra conservative independent church. They're so off the beaten path that they print their own Bibles: King James, since it's in the public domain, and they strip out the chapters that they don't like...err, I mean that aren't "authoritative" enough.
By the way, her dad was a "preacher" in this non-denominational denomination, but in the same way that everyone in NYC is an actor but has a day job (the church couldn't pay, so he had a nine-to-five job of some sort).

Well, she couldn't take it, and at 16 she ran off with a guy and had a baby. At some point, he ran off, and she went home. The "church" required her to apologize for what she'd done, but after she did, some stump jumper pointed out that she really hadn't sinned "against" them (her parents had moved states, and this wasn't the church she grew up in), so her parents drug her back to Pennsylvania, or Michigan, or wherever they were from, and she apologized to them too.

Anyway, she "rebelled" again and married my friend (who is ... GASP ... not only a Catholic, but not white (and delightsome)).