Only with palm trees!

I still don't get how a Florida governor gets on the warpath with Disney. That is not going to end well.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only with palm trees!
>
> I still don't get how a Florida governor gets on
> the warpath with Disney. That is not going to end
> well.

Scary that a guy who throws a tempter tantrum because he doesn't get his way at Disney World is admired by so many people. Most of us outgrew that kind of behavior by the time we were five years old.

Because he miscalculated.

His career was built on challenging the "woke" masses, whatever that means, and picking fights with gay people and drag queens. For years the strategy worked well.

But hubris led to nemesis. He didn't realize how stupid he would look fighting Micky Mouse or consider the possibility that his legal advisors would not be as smart as Snow White's attorneys.

DeSantis should have stuck with the demonization of kindergarten teachers, who are not as warm and cuddly as the Seven Dwarfs.

Except Grumpy, of course.

Isn't TSCC the largest landowner in Florida?

Poetaytoe paytahtoe

Not even close. LDS Inc owns somewhere in the vicinity of half a million acres of Florida land.

DeSantis was in Utah Saturday trolling for money. He was just pandering to the crowd. Nothing to see here. Move along.

DeSantis: Worse the little Donnie as POTUS?

I hope Biden keeps a steady course even tho he doesn't
appear to have the dramatic appeal/panache of being bombastic.

DeSantas & Trump are in a race headed toward the bottom; when you open the lid & look inside, its empty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2023 09:46AM by GNPE.

Note to DeSantis: that's not a good thing.

Utah...

is in the central western U.S., not in the SE



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2023 11:40AM by GNPE.

hmm... I've always thought of my home state as more of the flaccid, STD ridden and syphilitic penis of the country.

Strictly non-political--even for Beth!

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c756d1a709e2020dcb37489e083e8de3f4774b1f53c8017137e0b3407fd94e9b.jpg?w=600&h

What happens if Tuckums decides to run? It's more possible than it seems.

Considering that he's a fan of both Putin and Orban, and the fervor with which he promoted the Great Replacement Theory, it's probably safe to call him a fascist already.

We've been through this several times, caffiend. "Fascist" has a definition and it already fits.

And since you like Godwin, I will repeat that in 2020 he said Trumpism is fascist.

So I don't think anyone needs to wait until Tucker announces any political ambitions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2023 12:47PM by Lot's Wife.

Florida north of the Tampa - Orlando line that is.

South of that, you're in the American Caribbean.

Wasn’t the FEC the largest Class 1 to be non-union?

I believe that is correct. I know that the railroad was on strike for a long time.

Please tell me this doesn't make Idaho the Alabama of the Northwest. I know there's a similarity and I hate it.

Alabama? LOL, of course not. Idaho is the **Mississippi** of the Northwest.

Now doesn't that make you feel much better?

...to rent equipment for NY, NJ, CT, MA, RI, DC, IL, CA destinations. Got get rid of this surplus!

https://www.floridarealtors.org/news-media/news-articles/2023/02/why-do-people-move-and-leave-fla

Over 69% of United Van Lines’ movers headed to Florida are older than 55, and nearly 39% are 65 or older. Yes, plenty of baby boomers are headed to Florida, but other generations are moving in as well.

Headed out, approximately two in three (66%) were older than 55. So, while those with more revolutions under their belt are moving in, some are also moving out.

An article in the Washington Post reminds readers that millennials aren’t kids or 20-somethings from the last decade; they’re now those in the 30-something category. Despite a lower percentage of inbound (10.18%) compared to outbound (11.58%) for those aged 35 to 44, using the shipment counts in each direction reveals that the amount headed in is higher than those leaving

Florida used to be a desirable destination for young teachers, and now it's most definitely not. Very few young teachers want to relocate there, and many who are there want to leave. The pay is awful, and the working conditions are worse. DeSantis is doing his level best to kill public education in Florida.

I saw a post on a teachers' board from a Florida 70 year old with a bachelor's in another field, who wants to enter teaching. S/he can take one additional course to potentially get hired, and a couple more for full certification. What a joke! The retention rate for teachers who go through a quality alternative certification program is not wonderful, something like 20%. This 70 year old has no hope. But that is what the Florida public schools are coming to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2023 09:15AM by summer.

Much of the state is Mormon-owned.

Yes but Utah could be called "dehydrated Florida", and also a name for Arizona

LDS Inc is the biggest private land owner in Florida and when it restructured it’s corporations it did so in Florida, not Utah.

Wow! Thanks so interesting so much wealth and power, not like crypto they have assets to back things up, it would be interesting to hear what Warren Buffet really thinks about this, probably not too impressed with their ethics to say the least

I'd like to see a source for that if you have one.

Here ya go:

https://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm

Florida does have 4 of the top 9. Birmingham AL was #1, and Milwaukee, SLC, Baltimore, and Nashville beat out 3 of the 4 Florida entries.

If you go to all metro areas, and not just large ones, there are 389 entries, and Florida doesn't show up on the list until #30.

https://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laummtrk.htm

I'd rate caffiend's statement as 2 pinnochios, and an El Gato

That's what I thought.

If there's no source for an assertion, there's usually a reason.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what it would mean if this particular assertion were true. In the first winter/spring after a few years of pandemic shutdown, would it not make sense that warm tourist destinations would experience relatively high employment?

"I'd rate caffiend's statement as 2 pinnochios, and an El Gato"

So… better than usual, IOW.

Hey, the number 4 was correct, and the number 5 was only off by a factor of two, if restricted to major metro areas, though the original post did not specify major or all metro areas, so I would assume "all" by default.

So maybe 3.5 pinnochios and a partridge in a pear tree.

misplaced



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2023 11:16PM by Brother Of Jerry.

"Washington, DC CNN
—
Four out of the five US metropolitan areas with the lowest unemployment rates are in Florida, thanks to the state’s growing population, robust tourism activity and increased business investment."

>Edited to add link: https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/16/economy/florida-cities-unemployment-rate/index.html

Of course, it can't because of a better business climate, schools and businesses opened up sooner, and siphoning off the production class ("Leftugees") from blue states. Excerpts from the (anti-Trump) Journal:

The Blue State Exodus Accelerates

New IRS data for 2021 shows voters fleeing Illinois, among others.
By The Editorial Board
April 28, 2023 6:59 pm ET


Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker shrugged last year after several high-profile corporations left his state. “Countless companies are choosing Illinois as their home,” Mr. Pritzker said. Then why does a new Internal Revenue Service report show an accelerating taxpayer exodus from Illinois and other high-tax states?

The IRS each spring publishes data on the movement of adjusted gross income (AGI) and taxpayers across state lines from year to year. Some Democratic Governors such as Mr. Pritzker claimed that the 2020 Census undercounted their state populations, but the IRS data shows blue states are losing taxpayers and income at an increasing clip.

The IRS data shows a net 105,000 people left Illinois in 2021, taking with them some $10.9 billion in AGI. That’s up from $8.5 billion in 2020 and $6 billion in 2019. New York’s income loss increased to $24.5 billion in 2021 from $19.5 billion in 2020 and $9 billion in 2019. California lost $29.1 billion in 2021, more than triple what it did in 2019.

By contrast, the lowest tax states added some $100 billion of income during the pandemic. Zero-income-tax Florida gained $39.2 billion—up from $23.7 billion in 2020 and $17.7 billion in 2019. About $9.8 billion of the total arrived from New York, $3.9 billion from Illinois, $3.7 billion from New Jersey and $3.5 billion from California.

Texas was another winner, attracting a net $10.9 billion in 2021, which follows a gain of $6.3 billion in 2020 and $4 billion in 2019. Californians represented more than half of Texas’s income gain in 2021. The Golden State also sent $4.4 billion to Nevada, $2.7 billion to Arizona and $2 billion to Washington. Nevada and Washington don’t tax wages, and Arizona is phasing out its income tax.

Illinois lost income to all of its neighboring states, but the biggest beneficiaries of its taxpayer flight were Florida, Texas, Indiana and Wisconsin. Mr. Pritzker can’t blame lousy weather since it’s not exactly balmy in Kenosha. Billionaire Ken Griffin cited Chicago’s out-of-control crime last year as the reason he moved his hedge fund to Miami.
***

A major problem for high-tax states is that their escapees often pay more in taxes than their newcomers. The IRS data shows that the taxpayers leaving Illinois and New York typically made about $30,000 to $40,000 more than those arriving. Of Illinois’s total out-migration, 28% of the leavers made between $100,000 to $200,000 and 23% made $200,000 or more.

By contrast, the average return of a Florida newcomer in 2021 was about $150,000—more than double that of taxpayers who left. High earners spend more, which yields higher sales tax revenue. This helped Florida post a record $22 billion budget surplus last year. California is forecasting a $29.5 billion deficit.

All of this income migration helps explain why Florida and other low-tax states lead the country in job growth. Employment grew 4.5% in Florida and 4.3% in Texas over the past year compared to 2.5% in California and 2.2% in Illinois. In March the unemployment rate was 5.4% in New York City metro region, 5% in Los Angeles, 4.5% in Chicago versus 1.9% in Miami.

Sorry, Mr. Pritzker. The data is clear that Illinois and other states dominated by progressives are losing human talent in droves to better-governed states.

****************************************

If Florida's boom was due to tourism and warm weather, you'd think California, with its ideal climate and abundance of vacation attractions, would be prospering. It isn't.

Money goes where it's treated well. People, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2023 10:59PM by caffiend.

You are aware that a large majority of the states with the highest GDP per capita are run by the Blue party, and a large majority of the low GDP per capita states are bright Red, aren't you?

You can look it up.

An even starker imbalance is in the list of college degrees per capita. The top 20 states represent half the US population, and are therefore by definition all above the median percentage of college degrees. There are only two Red states on the above the median list. Utah is #14, and Kansas is #18



Oh, and the BLS report I posted is a monthly report, so those are March 2023 figures, a couple years more recent than you IRS figures. And to paraphrase Mark Twain, the death of California is greatly exaggerated.

I just looked up the GDP per capita list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP

If you click on the arrow on the "nominal GDP per Capita 2022" column, the software will sort the table on that column.

Of the top 20 entries, three of the Red ones (North Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska) are high GDP per capita only because they all have very small populations (added together they are less than 2 million people, about the same population as the Wastach Front), and they all happen to be sitting on large puddles of oil that bring lots of money into the state, which counts as GDP.

Texas is also a large oil state, but it does have cities that produce other stuff for a real GDP separate from "hey, we're sitting on a puddle of oil". They probably earned their spot on the high GDP half of the list.

Three points, caffiend.

First, you haven't proved that the cause of the redistribution of population is due to better governance rather than tourism.

Second, lumping all of California together doesn't make sense. Why? Because much of the state is conservative Republican: it is the home of Nunes, McCarthy, and others. Moreover most of the state is not a tourist destination at all.

Third, what do you think will happen to Florida's cities as the populations grow larger? Will they magically not have urban problems?

So we're still on one El Gato if not three pinnochios,



PS: Thanks for the source, which I requested without prejudice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2023 11:38PM by Lot's Wife.

The SE Florida cities will be spending all their money building dikes. And the entire home insurance industry in FL is one major hurricane away for bankruptcy. Banks will insist on an insurance industry, and the insurance industry will insist on realistically priced risk. Translation: insurance rates will be sky high.

It is not the government that will get many people to take global climate change seriously. It will be the insurance companies.

I think there is a redistribution of population, and it is largely going south. The states that are benefitting most from the migration of tech companies are also changing politically. Virginia is essentially Blue. NC is purple, GA is slightly less purple, AZ and NV are, at best, purple if not Blue.

I expect all those trends to continue as their workforce gets more educated and high tech.

I think Utah will even eventually change. I am not, however, going to hold my breath.

The simple fact is, people are abandoning blue states in droves, and red states are gaining their employment, tax contributions, and electoral strengths. It's because of crime, excessive taxation, convoluted regulation, 2nd Amendment issues, underperforming schools, and so much more. Numerous moving companies (U-Haul especially) confirm this: You'll pay a lot more to move from the metro Northeast to Tennessee or Florida than to move north.

We conservatives were worried that leftists, fed up with blue state taxes and regulatory climate, would start voting blue when they relocated (we call it "Coloradization," BOJ), but we are learning that is not, happily, the case. It's either the preponderance of "Leftugees" are already conservatives, or they were a mix of moderates and soft liberals who "saw the light" and are evolving conservative in their new home states, or some combination of similar factors.

Sure, there are exceptions (e.g. Colorado, Maine) and some conservatives will stay in regions of California that haven't yet become toxic. You can deny it, or explain it away, but apply a bit of critical reasoning and common sense and see that this is the trend.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have arrived in lalaland.

caffiend, you make assertions some of which are true but many of which are no more accurate than your claims first that 1/6 was an FBI job and then that none of the "tourists" had been charged or prosecuted. It was straight Tuckums bullshit and you simply spread it for him.

Now you're talking like azsteve, who assured us in 2017 that the GOP would sweep Congress in 2018 and that Trump would be elected resoundingly in 2020. None of that was more than wishful thinking, and what you are saying now--like the assertion that liberals want to move to red states so they can have more guns--is more of the same.

Your record on "critical thinking and common sense" is terrible.

The data in that editorial bear almost no connection to your claims.

There is nothing in it that supports your suggestion that the relocations stem from concerns over "crime. . . convoluted regulation, 2nd Amendment issues, underperforming schools."

That's just your gloss on, well, nothing, because the editorial mentioned none of those things.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2023 01:59AM by Lot's Wife.

Above, caffiend told us that not only conservatives but moderates and even liberals are fleeing liberal cities and moving to get away from those cities' "underperforming schools." He offered no evidence for that assertion, but as a conservative I was inclined not to question his credentials as a prophet. After all, they manifestly know a lot of shit.

It is with that in mind that I sadly confess that I was wrong. In at least some places the new MAGA political and school leaders are, as summer predicted, imposing conditions that teachers find so intolerable that they are "quitting in droves." The situation is so bad that "even die-hard Republicans are getting fed up."

https://news.yahoo.com/even-die-hard-republicans-getting-205547008.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

That from the dependably conservative Insider.

What can we conclude? First, that at some point conservatives will flee MAGA communities and seek the better education available in liberal communities; and second, summer is a better prophet than caffiend except perhaps in winter.

Conservatives who've "had enough and can't take it any more" are the tip of the spear. What I specified besides them were independents and soft liberals who are not that beholding to progressive ideology and the local political establishment. If not for the reasons (and more) I suggested, why would so many people be leaving those progressive utopias?

If trends continue, the 2030 census will see a substantial shift, unless the Blue states can attract or import people to um...replace...those who left.

Oh, yes. "Replacement" is a conspiracy theory, I forgot. My bad!

Food for thought: "Opportunity" counts large.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2023/02/14/bad-economic-policies-are-one-reason-people-are-leaving-blue-states/?sh=218321574682

Deep blue Maryland has been showing solid gains. We are up a million people within the last decade. We have generally pleasant, four season weather, a good economy, and moderate taxes. If anything, I would like to slow down development. And we could use increased medical capacity. But overall, life here is good.

A few years ago you were complaining that all those liberals were going to ruin conservative states because they voted the wrong way. Now you are suggesting that all those liberals are going to render conservative states dominant because they will all vote Republican.

Explain or deny it any way you wish: you insist on reading the same facts different ways depending on your mood. That lack of discipline keeps leading you to the wrong conclusions.

"If trends continue," you'll serve as a contrary indicator as you have so unfailingly in the past.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean that it is.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/09/leaving-california-exodus-evidence-myth


The idea of a “California exodus” that has seen waves of residents abandon the state has been steadily gaining steam. But new research has revealed it appears to be more myth than reality.

Researchers from a consortium of universities – including the Berkeley, UCLA, Cornell and Stanford – teamed up in the fall of 2020 to study California’s population. Their finding, released this week, determined there was “no evidence of an abnormal increase in residents planning to move out of the state”.

The consortium assessed information from various sources to review whether there was an exodus. Data included public opinion and US census figures, home ownership rates, consumer credit histories and venture capital investments.

“Sliced and diced by geography, race, income and other demographic factors, our efforts have produced a clearer picture of who perceives California as the Golden state versus a failed state,” said John A Pérez, the University of California regent, in a statement on the research. “The empirical data will be, at once, disappointing to those who want to write California’s obituary, as well as a call to action for policymakers to address the challenges that have caused some to lose faith in the California dream.”

Discussion of the flight from California has often focused on the state’s high tax rate, its expensive housing and high cost of living, and quality-of-life concerns such as homelessness, particularly in more conservative circles. Elon Musk decamped to Texas in 2020, saying California was taking its status “for granted”.

But more than 3,000 Californians surveyed said at a nearly 2-to-1 margin that they thought the state was a great place to reside and raise a family. “The majority of Californians still believe in the ‘California dream’,” researchers said.

They did find that belief in the California dream was varied with demographics, economic status, and political affiliations. According to the researchers, Spanish speakers, Latinos, African Americans, Asian Americans and younger California residents were more “optimistic”. On the other hand, middle-class residents, white respondents, older Californians and Republicans were more “pessimistic”.


https://medium.com/migration-issues/are-blue-states-bleeding-a33ade9e35f8

The real story is the purple states. Americans are disproportionately migrating to states more likely to be politically diverse and competitive. Is that political balance a cause of migration? Maybe, maybe not. But the data we have seems to, if anything, argue for moderation between “blue” and “red” rather than adopting one politic exclusively.

The data since COVID indicate that people are moving out of blue states. Your sources don't catch that.

Missing from that data, however, are clear indications of why people are moving. caffiend has provided explanations about the motives, most of which have received El Gatos.

If blue states are losing people will that mean that housing prices in those states will become more affordable and thereby attract people to live there ? Will blue states still be financially supporting the red welfare states ? Isn't that "socialism" ? Stay tuned.

So, blue states are losing population and red states are gaining? I know some red states that are not gaining much population. WV, WY, MT, ND, Looks like the population shifts are mostly about moving from cold weather to warmer.

Bozeman, MT has seen big gains, but it is mostly well to do Californians, and Bozeman is a college town, and a little over an hour from Yellowstone, and less than an hour to skiing. Livingston, MT has seen very little boom, and most of what it has seen is spillover from Bozeman. It is smaller, not a college town, though it is slightly closer to Yellowstone.

ND did have a population spurt 15 years ago for the oil boom, but that has leveled off. So I’m not buying caffiend’s premise that this is all about taxes. I’m going with weather first, maybe cost of living second.

And the best educated states and the highest GDP per capita states (the two things are closely linked) are still run by people caffiend thinks are ruining the US. He seems to be impervious to cognitive dissonance.

I found it very interesting that Utah is the best educated Red state by a pretty wide margin. I credit the Mormons for this. Right from the get-go when Utah was still a territory, Mormons valued education and invested heavily in schools. There is still an expectation that Mormon kids will go to college, and that expectation has served them well.

I wouldn’t exactly call South Beach and Key West Utah.

OP was referring to the method of governance (Taliban-lite), but you knew that. All analogies break down if you push them far enough.

Besides, while FL beats UT on gay culture numerically, UT does surprisingly well, considering. The Pride Parade is an event, and Pierpont and Exchange Place can be pretty colorful.

What a stupid way to treat a company that brings employment and money to a state. Over nothing. Just an idiot trying to score some points with other idiots. It's a competition of who can appeal to the lowest.