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Posted by: onthedownlow ( )
Date: May 14, 2023 11:52PM

So I watched the 60 minutes about the LDS tonight not knowing of it previously. It just popped up on CBS. I texted to my 3 older brothers who are TBM and stubborn that the church was being featured on 60 Minutes tonight but nothing more. Afterwards, I exclaimed that it was awesome.

One of my brothers, so far, has asked me to not communicate with him anymore. He fired off a bunch of insults of me as well. I, on the other hand, turned the other cheek and told him that I loved him and that I will always be right here for him. I also said that I can't allow a predator to prey on my family.

Well, clearly the church has done it's will on my family. I hope someone watching 60 minutes somewhere is smoking pist off and takes this to the next level in government and puts an end to this fraud. There has got to be an academy of rich people who can finance and bring this criminal activity to an end.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 04:26AM

The government investigated and fined the church. The church paid the fine. It’s over with.

The church set up front companies to hide how much money it has from the members. The Presiding Bishopric said they don’t want members to know how much money the church has because they don’t want members telling the church leadership how to spend the money.

Now what’s new? This is what the church has been for years. Pray, pay and obey! Rinse, wash, repeat!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 10:19AM

Except now LDS Inc has recently been found playing fast and loose with the law, and deliberately trying to hide a surprisingly large amount of wealth, and it has made national news in the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

Members may claim this is not going to change their attitude about LDS Inc, but you know what, I don’t believe them.

Some will double down and become more committed to Mormonism. That is a change in attitude, and not a good one. Meanwhile, others will have their “shelves” weaken, if not break outright.

And for the general public, Mormonism is developing a distinct odor.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 10:10AM

The church got a slap on the hand equal to a mosquito bite. Already yesterday's news.

Your brother's behavior is typical of someone who knows they are wrong and over reacts to cover. It's what you do when "you got nuthin'".

I hate it as much as anyone, but nothing is going to change because Mormons aren't really the focus of anyone's attention.

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Posted by: unconventional ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 11:15AM

Yes, in the bigger scheme of things, no one cares. and therefore there’s no reason to get worked up about it.

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Posted by: onthedownlow ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 11:27AM

I see your point, but I beg to differ. I think the writing on this one is more clear than the Hofmann letters and the situation of the quick changes in rules with the LGBTQ.

A lot of people are seeing a lot of reports of the church out right breaking the law and doing it financially. Especially, the bail out money to Beneficial Life. The story on 60 minutes will grab the attention of older generation mormons in several ways.

1. They watched it.
2. Work colleagues and friends will ask them questions which will draw even more attention to it.
3. Further government intervention and or pressure to the government to hold such entities accountable will increase, especially at voting time.
4. The attrition of all of the members around them leaving the church until one of genuine interest strikes a cord with them.

In my family, I have noticed the millennials catch on fast and do not care for the church quickly. Those of us who grew up in the 80's, we know the lies about the rock in the hat, the rumors "the church has been audited and has been found sound and true many times over" or "they never denied the faith". For those much older (my brothers) it's inevitable that they are surrounded with it. They retire and have to fill their time up to forget about it. Moreover, in 20 years they all die off. Secularism takes front seat.

The way I see it, no matter what, somehow or some way they will find out. How will I look then? A coward who kept quiet or did I try hard to protect them? It's a crappy position to be in and I won't lie, it really hurts when they call me names and see me as a devil.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 11:38AM

"It's a crappy position to be in and I won't lie, it really hurts when they call me names and see me as a devil."

I hear you on that one. To have a brother go to great extremes to have his kids come no where near me ever was hard to take and be exacerbated by my parents "understanding" his position. Why do we even bother? And you worry about having kept quiet? There is nothing you can do about their deaF ears that only hear not because their Mormon hands are firmly over them.

I hope you are right and I am wrong about the impact of the news bit. Though facts were given, for me watching that 60 minutes piece had the flavor of a "he said/she said" moment which lets the issue go gently into the night which is what Mormons count on.

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Posted by: onthedownlow ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 11:53AM

I felt that Bishop Waddell's dismissive and condescending responses, reeked with dishonesty and put LD$ Inc. further into a sinister light.

You gotta be crazy to want to give tithe to that black hole.

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 12:48PM

In business, law and economic classes across the United States this will be discussed endlessly. The tax exempt LDS church has taken advantage of that status and KNOWINGLY broke the law. Mormons may not talk about it----but EVERYONE else will And truly honest smart members will leave.

In my undergraduate classes we discussed how businesses and 'firms' broke the law everyday. I wasn't in an MBA or CPA program either. The church broke the law in a BIG way.

They are CRIMINALS!

Dean Udy went to prison for his financial sins and so should every LDS man who hid what was going on in the LDS-Mormon church
.
This is really sacred/secret stuff so WOMEN were not privy to it.

But we are raising the kiddos and we will teach them how dishonest the LDS Church is.

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Posted by: Silence is Golden ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 11:29AM

Its a catch the kid in a cookie jar scenario. You can confront them all you want, but they will continue to deny.

In agreement to all the others before, nothing is going to change. The church has its war chest, and TBM's are going to continue their donations, and deny something is amiss.

The positive side is that for those of us who broke free, we are just that... free!

In the long run, just like the car that speeds past you cutting off cars as they race up the road......you will end up beside them at the stop light in time.

All things equal out once the last breath is taken.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 12:41PM

Family is forever,
Or until somebody wakes up to reality, then, to hell with them!!!

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Posted by: onthedownlow ( )
Date: May 15, 2023 01:56PM

You got that right schrodingerscat. Although my feelings are hurt, I am not a push over. My brothers owe me a grave apology. As a matter of fact it was all 3 of them picking on me as a little boy without a fully developed brain about going to church and serving a mission or you are a loser. When I had doubts and concerns they mocked me and laughed at me. "oh listen to lil bro, he needs to find himself".

Now, the shoe is on the other foot, and they can't take their own medicine. These 3 are all very well read and academic. One of them was the valedictorian of his MBA program at the U. To f__k with them, they are gonna eat their own shit now. There will be a reckoning.

Ghandi: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 05:26PM

Reference please for this quote. Date, time and place given.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 07:08PM

onthedownlow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ghandi: “I like your Christ, I do not like your
> Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
> Christ.”

According to the Harvard Crimson (student newspaper), the quote is as follows (no date given, for either the article or the comment):

"I like your Christ, but not your Christianity." In these words of Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. J.H. Holmes summed up the Indian leader's view of Christianity in a recent interview with a CRIMSON reporter."

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1927/1/11/mahatma-gandhi-says-he-believes-in/


According to GoodReads, Gandhi said:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/22155-i-like-your-christ-i-do-not-like-your-christians


Gizmodo's site says:

"This quote has actually become popular in some Christian circles to implore followers that they should “be like Jesus.” But there’s no evidence that Gandhi ever said this."

"A similar quote appears to be from an Indian philosopher named Bara Dada, brother of Rabindranath Tagore. The full quote from Dada appears to be from the mid-1920s: “Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians, you are not like him.”

https://gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

(Gizmodo is described as: "...a design, technology, science and science fiction website.)"

The above excerpt from Gizmodo is under the heading:

"7 Gandhi Quotes That Are Totally Fake"


So, I'm thinking he didn't say that, not the way it's been written anyway. Also, I think he may have been slightly more diplomatic.

As ever, I could be wrong.


PS: If he did say it, or anything like it, I can see him using the word 'Christianity', as the Harvard Crimson does. It's a little less personal than if someone says 'Christians'.


Another PS: Wow. I looked up Christianity Today to see what they had to say.

It is described as "an evangelical Christian media magazine founded in 1956 by Billy Graham. It is published by Christianity Today International based in Carol Stream, Illinois. The Washington Post calls Christianity Today "evangelicalism's flagship magazine".

Some of my Christian friends through the years have embraced similar ideals to what CT advocates, depending on their flavour of Christianity.

I wasn't prepared to see the level of invective they level at Gandhi in an article of theirs from April/23 about this supposed comment of his. The article doesn't state that Gandhi did not utter those words. Instead, the writer accepts that he did and really goes off on him. To the extent that I'm not going to post a link to the article. One, it's a bit religious for this board (so may break a rule against preaching) and two, I find the comments embarrassing as a Christian, especially directed at Gandhi.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2023 10:43PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: May 16, 2023 12:21PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Family is forever,
> Or until somebody wakes up to reality, then, to
> hell with them!!!


Exactly what I was going to post! Ha! It's so sad, though...
I recently posted about how I don't feel like I fit in anywhere because I'm out and my family is in the cult. Ugh.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: May 21, 2023 03:03AM

Families can be together forever with the right taxidermist.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: May 16, 2023 12:45PM

Three of my siblings had left long before I did, but they didn't work their way out. Every once in a while they'll do or say something that shocks me. None of them go to church and haven't in 30 years or more. Then my second sister left in the past year or so. I have one brother who is disabled who goes.

My parents were supportive of me when I left after what I went through. I've worked really hard to heal.

My ex and my son are out. And my daughter was anti until she was 20 and then went back because a guy she liked said he needed a wife who had a testimony (after he had had 3 kids by 2 mothers). She's still in and didn't marry him. She preached a lot at first.

My therapist told me some years ago that this is "her." He said he didn't think she was doing it to be mean, etc., but that it is JUST HER. He said quit letting her trigger you and I did quit. We've gotten along for about four years now. Almost 100%. We don't discuss the church. Every now and then she'll say something that surprises me that is negative about the church. I just listen.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: May 16, 2023 01:53PM

YaY. Another excuse to claim persecution!

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 03:34PM

The "church" will use its 100 billion dollar slush fund to support nefarious political causes as usual.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 04:27PM

What causes, and what evidence do you have that funds from EPA were involved?

Their most recent political cause was backing a federal protection-of-same-sex-marriage bill, as long as they got an exemption to continue to expel BYU students who entered into a same-sex marriage. I don't know that they spent any appreciable amount of money on it, other than a few bucks to Kirton-McConkie.

They went to great lengths to pressure members to pony up money to support Proposition 8, so that it wouldn't actually be their money.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 07:31PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Their most recent political cause was backing a
> federal protection-of-same-sex-marriage bill

This surprises me.

> as long as they got an exemption to continue to expel
> BYU students who entered into a same-sex marriage.

This. Not so much.

But isn't it, uh, a little on the hypocritical side?

I like my religion to at least be consistent. {{jk}}

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 21, 2023 03:20AM

> Their most recent political cause was backing a
> federal protection-of-same-sex-marriage bill, as
> long as they got an exemption to continue to expel
> BYU students who entered into a same-sex marriage.

Perfectly predictable.

The church saw that soon the country, or at least the state, would establish a right to same-sex marriage and wanted to preclude that. So they conceded the broader point in order to hold their last bastion: homosexuality at church schools.

It was a wise political move: they salvaged what they could of their discriminatory institutions by acting faster than everyone expected.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: May 20, 2023 11:14PM

My advice is to shed all TBMs from your life. I mean relatives too.

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