This surprises me tremendously.

I thought no one from that family would ever find their way out of the church, but it looks like it’s happening.

He’s the smartest one of that bunch though (always was), and I think personal integrity matters to him.

So we shall see.

Baby steps.

Congratulations! Posting something critical of the church on facebook is a big step in my opinion.

Yes, completely unexpected.

I won’t do anything except sit back and watch. He knows he can come to me when/if he’s ready.

At this point MORmONs who continue forking over 10% of their hard earned income to this money grubbing abusive doomsday CULT, after it’s crimes have been exposed on 60 Minutes for all the world to see, are beyond reason.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At this point MORmONs who continue forking over
> 10% of their hard earned income to this money
> grubbing abusive doomsday CULT, after it’s
> crimes have been exposed on 60 Minutes for all the
> world to see, are beyond reason.


You would think...

Although some are obviously influenced by the exposure, the problem is that most already belong to this group:

"MORmONs who continue forking over 10% ... are beyond reason."


Sadly, nuances within the overarching group have little impact.

Yes, I agree. Anyone over 50 at least who has been in the church their whole life is beyond hope. That’s why I find my cousin’s behavior interesting.

Ultimately though, his wife will keep him in unless miraculously, she has seen the light as well.

In the meantime, we go on living as happily as possible, and maybe that has an effect on them.

If it doesn’t, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

are 67 and 68 and they just left. My sister went inactive for a year quite a few years ago, but her husband asked her to please go with him. I didn't think he would ever leave. All their kids left in their teens. The wards weren't kind to my sister's kids and it was bad.

She just recently told me that when she wasn't going to church, the bishop called her in and asked her if she had some sins that she needed to repent of and that is why she wasn't going to church. He asked her if she had a porn problem. OMH! If you knew my sister or any of the girls in our family, you'd be like HUH????

After COVID, my sister and her husband finally decided they'd had enough. I am shocked my BIL doesn't go anymore.

Nice.

I think it’s best not to have hope, and be surprised when the unexpected happens.

It will happen from time to time as you prove in your post.

unconventional Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, completely unexpected.
>
> I won’t do anything except sit back and watch.
> He knows he can come to me when/if he’s ready.

Good strategy!

I'm jealous...I wait patiently and hopefully for the day when any of my TBM relatives post something negative, or other signs indicative of an awakening.

I wish my elderly mom would donate ZERO to the Mormon church, but she's been in too long to kick the habit. She finally confessed to me that her overall donation is nowhere near 10%, it's closer to 2-3% of her yearly SS checks.

She knows the church is hording profane amounts of cash. She agrees that the church needs to open up its wallet and help its members who are struggling to make ends meet.

2 to 3% is more in line with donations to most “mainstream” churches and they seem to be surviving just fine.

I have mentioned to other family members that this person has come out of the closet.

Yes, I realize they don’t have the courage talk about it, but I want to make sure they know anyway.

Will the tithing revenue decrease? Will this 60 minutes interview make LDS members rethink how much tithing they are giving to the church? The lds church is keeping numbers secret or should I say confidential how much money they take in yearly on tithing or how many lds members resign their LDS membership yearly. Reduce your tithing and increase your 401k account lol I know I am a bad apostate the lds church has already enough money.

There are enough members out there who never read, or question anything. They’re the “faithful.” I think the church can bank on money from those simpletons.

Church leaders are too old to be hiding money. They could forget where they put it.

OK, I'm a nevermo but, as a long-time observer of LDS and this forum, I feel sure that a certain percentage of people in TSCC , to their credit, really believe the (mainly) Christian, charitable values espoused by the Church, in word at least. As I've said before here, although I'm an atheist, my own moral structures are founded on Judeo-Christian values because, hey, culture & class in the UK, so I actually probably share most of those values.

My point is this: surely with these latest revelations regarding the lack of deeds to back up the words (which I don't think surprised many on this board regarding the principle, but which shocked everyone, including me, by the sheer amount... ;-), such people should be seriously questioning their support. How many fall into this category? Have such people already left? How many of them light there be? You all would know better than me...

I think some people here REALLY believed at one point and were therefore even more offended when they worked out that it was all a monstrous scam from the very beginning. It's normal in cults ;-/. It's at the core of how they work. I understand how that works because I TRIED to really believe in the local forms of christianity (Anglicanism and the UK Baptist Church - say no more ;-).

It's the best people, those who really believe the words and try to live the values , who end up leaving (I saw it among ex-scientologists when I was involved in the anti-scientology movement in the 2000 - many of the people on the forums were people who really bought into the official line that they were acting for the good of the human race and making the planet better.

It's funny: after they've left, they're still among the best people. That's one of the reasons I stick around annoying you all ;-). You're among the best.

Have a delicious Sunday, all, as mine, which was indeed delicious and filled with sun and family, comes to an end.

Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2023 03:47PM by Soft Machine.

+1

Thanks Tom for your outsider perspective.

Two things stick out:

1. “The monstrous scam from the beginning.” Yes absolutely, but I never thought of it that way. Thanks.

2. The people who leave are among the best. Yes, a good reminder. They’re among the best because they combine courage and integrity. Some with those traits get left behind too.

An atheist? I guess that makes you a real Doubting Thomas.

Yes, there are still true believers in the church. But I reckon there has been a generational shift. Many of us grew up in areas more or less isolated from broader society--perhaps like Liverpool--and without ready access to information. In those circumstances young people often accepted what they were told by people whom they trusted. They took it seriously.

A combination of age, experience, and information therefore created moral crises at a relatively high rate. My hunch is that the numerical peak of such faith crises and moral defections came in the somewhere between 2005 and 2012 and was reflected in the proliferation of very active ex-Mo internet sites.

If that hypothesis is correct, there today are fewer committed Mormons having profound crises and more who have gradually eased their way first into New Order Mormon status and then inactivity or quiet renunciation--meaning no thermonuclear explosions. But the younger generation, which grew up with much better scientific and historical information, has not been "hooked" like many of us were. Assuming no familial genetic problems, EOD's post yesterday is probably typical of trends among the under-thirty crowd. The percentage of such get-off-my-lawn youngsters who are true believers is much lower than it was a few decades ago.

So while there are definitely people going through the sort of exit trauma many of us did, the more common pattern would probably be of people with less commitment, or already diminished commitment, reacting to the serial scandals with progressively greater cynicism and a gradual estrangement rather than sudden shock and existential drama.

Those who say the various contretemps (you're welcome!) have no impact are incorrect. Each scandal adds cumulatively to the disappointment and anger Mormons feel, and those increasingly onerous burdens cause more and more members to shed their encumbrances and quietly walk away. That is a major problem for the church since membership is no longer the fly paper it once was.

Me asking a GA where the money is:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gx_bZ-DAIN4